2006-11-16, 22:23 | Link #1 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Proposed Amendment to Forum Rule 2.3 (re: Asking about releases)
Current Rule:
Quote:
Add a clarification that indicates that this rule includes asking whether a group has dropped a project. Rationale: I've noticed an increase in this "has this show been dropped?" question on the fansub forums these days for less popular shows, even when the most recent release has been in less than two weeks. It can be accompanied by a sort of "safe harbor" statement like "I'm not asking when it'll be released, just if it's being continued" as if to bypass the wording of the forum rule. It can also be "based on" the weakest of anecdotal evidence, such as a website being temporarily unavailable (or, of course, based on no evidence whatsoever). To me, this is really just another way of asking the same question as the original rule, and is pretty senseless to ask on these boards (if a project were announced as dropped, I'm sure someone would have already posted it). If it were a project I was working on, the insinuation would be the same or worse as that implied by the initial rule: I'd see it as whining and asking when the next episode will be released. It's actually an even more direct way of questioning the group's "commitment" - it's no longer just "it's taking too long", but now "maybe you're not even working on it at all". Not very helpful... Besides that, I didn't realize that the dropping of series had become such an epidemic that it's a key cause for concern whenever there's a delay (except for the usual dropping of over-subbed series, but that's not usually the issue here). I also fail to see what the question accomplishes - what are they going to do if it is dropped? (Again, no different than whining about how long a release is taking.) I'd rather see forum posters ask the groups themselves if they need any help -- at least that's a positive, optimistic question that seeks to improve the situation. Plus, it'd save me having to always say "There's no reason to believe it's dropped, just be patient...", etc. And if you're not willing to help improve the situation, what is gained by asking if a series is dropped? By the logic above, I actually do think the forum rule as written already captures this issue indirectly. However, an addendum would make it even more clear, and prevent the "safe harbor" workaround I mentioned earlier ("I'm not asking when..."). It may be no big deal, but I think it'd be a positive step in bringing people (in a very small way) out of their "where's my food?!" mentality and into the recognition that fansubbing is a team effort ("Hey, do you need any help with that?"). Submitted for your consideration, anyway... |
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2006-11-16, 23:34 | Link #2 |
Weapon of Mass Discussion
Fansubber
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
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You speak Truth.
95% of people who ask if a project was dropped, are just trying for a loophole and I usually treat it as such, but it should be made clear in our rules that we're on to that trick.
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2006-11-17, 01:02 | Link #4 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Well, not to take this on too much of a tangent, but that's part of my point. Those doing the fansubbing could just as soon say "Nothing like expecting something you don't deserve". It may not be a "nice" answer, but it is the truth -- we have no right to know if or when a fansub will be released, and we're "at the mercy" of those donating their time and doing the work. This is why, as per the original rule, I think it's better to not ask and to, instead, encourage people to offer their help as they're able. If you're not willing to help, then all you can do is wait anyway. That being said, if groups wants to announce that they're dropping a project here on AnimeSuki, that's obviously a nice gesture.
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2006-11-17, 02:04 | Link #5 |
King of the l33t
IT Support
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I agree with you, to an extent. I think given a certain period of time, it is no longer rude to ask if a show has been dropped. Rather than outright banning this behavior, I think the best course of action is to limit it to no less than a month after the last release.
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2006-11-17, 03:36 | Link #6 |
Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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I agree as well -- with both relentlessflame's opinion and Supersonic's one.
I've always considered the following checklist as basic rules to follow regarding this topic:
Still above rules might be a bit to long to integrate in the rules (if we get a consensus on that). But we could make a reference, or implement some elements... Last edited by GHDpro; 2006-11-17 at 05:11. Reason: Typo |
2006-11-17, 04:51 | Link #7 |
Weapon of Mass Discussion
Fansubber
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
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Curiously my timeframe for late fansubs is exactly the same as yours! I wait about 3 months before I start checking group's websites and forums to see if they've said anything. In almost every case someone has already asked the question on their own forum and I'll find an angry response to tell me that they are working on the next episode. (I suspect that the few exceptions are because they deleted the question.)
If 6 months pass, then I consider asking people involved. Though I suspect I can get away with this better than Joe Lurker.
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2006-11-17, 07:45 | Link #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Threaten? Using money? Well, for me; 6 months seems too long; for currently airing series, I mean. I'd put it at forum/site check @ 3-4 weeks, and then start to ask very very politely @ 2 months; tho usually the check at the end of one month would yield an answer. Ha, I remember contacting one group to enquire about a certain series, and I got a reasonable, kind but firm reply. Tho I do agree with the point made that we can't expect everything for them. We are the ones being served after all; have to live with that. (Tho I do expect reasonable quality from a release that calls itself a fansub)
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2006-11-17, 14:50 | Link #10 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Quote:
It's either that and/or we have a heavily-moderated "Officially Dropped Projects" thread (sort of like the "Licensed" thread). I'm not too sure what the implications of that would be, but at least it'd limit the rumour-mongering and provide a central spot people could look to for "official news". The question of course becomes what counts as "official" news, how to avoid getting entangled in political in-fighting, and so on... but it's a thought, anyway. So long as people stop asking within weeks of a recent release (and it's made clear that "I'm not asking when" isn't a workaround for the current rule), that'll at least be an improvement. |
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2006-11-22, 15:46 | Link #11 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Much more often things are *stalled* rather than dropped because some critical team member vanished (taken by the MiB I suppose) or is distracted by mundane things like Real Life.
I support the idea as well because one can certainly go *check* at the group's website. If the group isn't using the communication channel they're paying for to, well, *COMMUNICATE* ... then they fail in civility. Certain groups I'm just more likely to catch raws because they're less dependable, so it goes.
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2006-11-23, 16:11 | Link #12 |
Certified Organic
Join Date: Dec 2005
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in my opinion if it takes 6 months to release one episode of a series that aired a year ago, it should be considered a dropped project. alot of groups disband and no one mentions it. a list or notification in the fansub thread of that series would prevent people from having to wait in anticipation or ask questions. the torrent list should be changed to dropped on www.animesuki.com if a release has not occured in 6 months. remember, a newborn child can learn to talk in 12 months.
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