2013-07-19, 20:24 | Link #8381 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Unless, of course, you think that the protagonist has to be on the "good/winning" side. Quote:
The difference is that, in this case, the story has been focusing on the so-called henchman's character/motivation from the beginning to the last episode, even to the additional ending. So, if there's a "James Bond" story where the "evil henchman" is the protagonist, it would be like what's happened in Destiny. |
||
2013-07-19, 21:04 | Link #8382 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
The problem is Shinn is still not the focus. The story frequently forgets all about him and there are several episodes when he only makes a minor token appearance while AA crew gets the focus.
I mean look at the first stretch of 1-13. Who's getting the focus when there isn't combat involved. It's not Shinn (who gets one or two scenes) It's Athrun and Cagalli. Shinn's scenes of focus are few and far between and this continues for the entire show. The only point that Shinn could be called the protagonist is the small stretch of episodes after Kira and co leave Orb and before they reappear to start interfering with Zaft. And even then Athrun gets the most screentime there. This isn't the case in Seed, where Kira is almost always the focus of the show from start to finish minus a handful of eps where its either on Athrun or Kira is incapacitated. Cutting back to Shinn for a minute or two once it a while to say "Oh hey this guy is important too" does not a protagonist make. In fact I'd say Destiny is truely an ensemble show and has no protagonist, since the perspective is constantly jumping around. |
2013-07-19, 23:00 | Link #8384 |
Powered by AMD Athrun 64
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Washington, DC
|
I've said this before, and I'll say it again:
For all the talk about who was the "lead" character of Destiny, Athrun had the most screentime out of the three lead characters, even if he was in a supporting role. The TV Movies recapped the show from Athrun's perspective, though with a sympathetic view towards the TSA. There's also GSD: The Edge, an alternate retelling of GSD, also told from Athrun's POV. Why not have Bandai/Sunrise/Fukuda/Morosawa admit that GSD was, by de facto, Athrun's show?
__________________
|
2013-07-20, 01:27 | Link #8388 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
|
Quote:
Let us look at the last two episodes. Episode 15 is a big battle, but it IS exploring Shinn's character isn't it? Him being goaded by Neo, him ignoring Athrun's orders, him rushing to save the slave labor, him ignoring all the death and suffering he is causing while trying to prevent more death and suffering. Yeah, the whole episode was nothing but a big fight, but we ARE exploring Shinn's character, and his morality. And when Athrun calls him on some of it this episode, it DOES sink in. Those nice little flashbacks to him slaughtering people prove that point nicely. A LOT of the nature of Shinn's personality and how he compares and contrasts to Athrun and Kira comes out of his battles. As does his moral fiber. Just because there's shooting and pretty lights doesn't mean there is no subtext. Quote:
Quote:
Also, how was the chat with Durandal expanded? I am genuinely asking because I don't remember it. Quote:
Everyone else he's killed before that moment "deserved" it in one way or another. He thought Kira had killed Stella and he thought Athrun and Meyrin were traitors, and everyone else was a fair enemy. But Luna? Totally innocent. This is a major line he crossed. Quote:
You and someone else have both made mention that Final Plus kind of negate your entire "Shinn wasn't part of the last scene" argument you seem to be using, but Final Plus shouldn't be used because it wasn't the original. But here you have an original sentence that can be EASILY used against you, so you expand upon it and explain it better and expect us to use the revised, expanded version as gospel and ignore the original. Meanwhile taking the original ending as the one true ending and ignoring the newer, revised, expanded version of it. Surely you see why I find this strange, no? Quote:
Quote:
Then again, considering how well fans reacted to the bait and switch HERE, what makes you think people would like it THERE? |
|||||||
2013-07-20, 13:36 | Link #8389 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
|
Well, Kira was still young than and SEED was far from over when that event happened. Athrun had many times to develop after that and he was extremely popular by than anyway even if Kira was more popular.
|
2013-07-20, 21:23 | Link #8390 | |||
As I make you stop, think
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Europe - The Netherlands
Age: 34
|
Quote:
While he may have had the most focus, his character was moving in a obvious stale line. They did spend time on "will he or won't he", but it is pointless when we already know which path he is going to choose. Quote:
For example, finding out about Stella's sad fate as an extend and as an enemy didn't make him really question or even think about the next pilot who was labeled as enemy on his monitor. He just continued to do what he was doing before he met Stella. Quote:
He was damaged from the very start and his story was about how far he'll go on the same path before he self destruct.
__________________
Last edited by kaito-kid; 2013-07-21 at 03:03. |
|||
2013-07-21, 11:30 | Link #8391 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
|
Quote:
If this theoretical protagonist switch in Destiny is the primary reason so many people seem to HATE Destiny, what makes you think the switch would have been taken in stride in Seed? Remember, even the most avid Destiny Kira haters tend to say they liked him fine in Seed. I personally think it would have been awesome, but the average fan would have raged even harder than they did in Destiny. Quote:
But Shinn's unwillingness to change IS the point. Quote:
Also, the show doing a poor job isn't the same as HIM NOT BEING A PROTAGONIST. Quote:
Although, keep in mind, just because he didn't change how he acted doesn't mean he himself did not change. Shinn's growing awareness of what he's doing and refusal to change is kind of the plot. It is HARD to accept you're wrong. It is hard to the cold, hard truths Athrun is offering over the pretty lies Rey whispers in your ear. Quote:
Shinn is a dramatic foil to Kira and Athrun. There but for the grace of God goes I type thing. If instead of Athrun, it had been some random ZAFT soldier who killed Tolle? If Kira had never jumped into the Strike? The line that separates good and evil is THAT thin. That's what Destiny shows. That's what Shinn's character shows us. |
|||||
2013-07-22, 00:31 | Link #8393 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
|
Quote:
Considering how much seething hatred the American fanbase seems to have for the latter I am presuming the former would not have gone down very well with the crowd EITHER... |
|
2013-07-22, 01:05 | Link #8394 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
|
Doubtful, Athrun was well liked in the East at that point and that's all that really matters. Besides, had Kira not been alive in Destiny and Athrun was the returning main character that mentors Shinn than many would have warmed to Shinn much more easily because Athrun was there and they don't have Kira to cry about.
|
2013-07-22, 02:23 | Link #8395 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
|
Quote:
If the switch from Shinn (least popular) to Kira (most popular), however theoretical, pissed people off, why wouldn't he swtich fro Kira (most popular) to Athrun (a bit less popular) NOT piss people off? Follow? If going from 1 to 3 pissed people off, why would goes from 3 to 2 have a similar reaction? |
|
2013-07-22, 09:45 | Link #8396 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 33
|
When did Kira become Destiny's protagonist? I never saw the series focusing on his background (maybe that flashback episode). He was just an active fighter similar to Mu in SEED who did a lot when he got new mobile suit but got less screentime.
|
2013-07-22, 09:57 | Link #8397 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
|
Quote:
( third op+ ) |
|
2013-07-22, 10:21 | Link #8398 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."
|
Quote:
|
|
2013-07-22, 10:25 | Link #8399 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
|
Quote:
Fans. Would. Have. HATED IT. Fans hate Destiny for a protagonist switch that went for a less popular to a more popular character that didn't actually happen. An ACTUAL protagonist dying and being replaced by his less popular antagonist would have pissed even more people off. Fans. Would. Have. HATED IT. Because fans ALREADY hated it. And it didn't even actually happen. |
|
Tags |
mecha, seed it and weep |
|
|