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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 06 | |||
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... | 21 | 15.22% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent... | 28 | 20.29% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good... | 42 | 30.43% | |
7 out of 10 : Good... | 24 | 17.39% | |
6 out of 10 : Average... | 13 | 9.42% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average... | 4 | 2.90% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor... | 3 | 2.17% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad... | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Torturous... | 3 | 2.17% | |
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-08-16, 09:24 | Link #261 | |||
SIBYL salesman
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Compare against the PKers in ep 6, he knew not to take them on since their difference in levels were smaller (I would bank on him taking them on if he knew he could win) Quote:
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Also, play Diablo 3 in hardcore mode. Hint: it's a co-op game and once your char dies, you have to start a new one (in hardcore mode, that is), yet people have found ways to grief other hardcore mode players (ok, not guilds, but there's a lot people who are willing to grief). |
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2012-08-16, 09:29 | Link #262 | |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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2012-08-16, 09:47 | Link #263 | |||
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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I hate the LN v. Anime comparisions, because they are so pointless, but the LN did address this. Kirito was the victim of a MPK attempt on day one over something silly. |
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2012-08-16, 10:12 | Link #264 | ||||
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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The point is the front-line fighters couldn't have afforded to accept just anyone to their group. They have to be a rock-solid team with good coordination and team work. And that couldn't have happened with just anyone. Quote:
Anyways, pardon me, but it seems you guys have been talking about risk of PK for Kirito specifically. I misunderstood that part so I've been speaking about the threat of PKs for the general populace, not specific individuals or groups. Quote:
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2012-08-16, 10:15 | Link #265 |
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My view on Kirito is that he's not a "solo player" because he's downright anti-social. He's a "solo player" because he deeply values his freedom and independence. He's probably not keen on being a fully integrated part of a militaristic force. The clearers have a slight militaristic vibe to them, as we see by how Asuna could order people around like a military commander, and as we also see by the very terminology of "front lines".
Some SAO players probably take comfort in the idea of truly belonging to a group dedicated to clearing the game and rejoining the real world. They may in fact like the sense of order and structure that the militaristic feel of the "front lines" gives them, as this sense of order cancels out the overwhelming sense of disruption caused simply by being trapped in SAO and cut off from the real world for so long. I think Kirito prefers to act on the periphery, to help out where he can, but also to feel the freedom to do as he pleases within the game and not be heavily relied upon by others. That makes some sense given what happened back in Episode 3, of course. My sense is that the clearers tolerate this about Kirito because he's good and proficient at what he does. While he comes and goes as he pleases, he can be very helpful during big missions, and he's not a bad guy.
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2012-08-16, 10:47 | Link #266 | |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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I'm surprised at the level of arguments that have arisen due to this one episode, and largely due to it seems because @Quadratic and some others are unsatisfied with the direction the anime is taking. I think I will repeat my quote from posts prior, this is how the anime looks like it is treating the story:
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I will say that from my opinion, although there were tweaks made, what I've seen thus far has been a good job of integrating what were "side-stories" back into the main story in a chronological order, and also reveals hints about the characters changing and developing. The experiences till now, up to and including this episode, serve as experiences for our cast.. as well as broaden their understanding of SAO. People are living and dying. They're people with their own personality quirks and issues. What was once a game is now a "real" world, with the added veil of a certain degree of detachment.. so perhaps "true colors" or "base human instincts" are coming to the fore.. As a viewer we learn about all this, and frankly, some of this is probably news to our beloved Kirito and Asuna as well.. Learn about human nature kids, including it's dark side.. you're only 15/16 after all.. Spoiler for Current Light Novel & SS being tweaked to be more integrated:
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2012-08-16, 11:34 | Link #267 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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I think you're being a bit disingenuous with the examples there. We've been shown throughout the series so far that Kirito is not averse to joining up with others in order to help people out or when it serves his interests (such as clearing the boss floors). In the first episode where he "parties" with Klein, he's stood out in a field showing him the basics after he's been specifically asked for help. This essentially sets the precedent for things to come. This guy has asked for help and Kirito is not refusing it The guild... well this is assumption as we don't get inside his head as to reasons he's joined up. My assumption is that he's either wanting to try out what the experience is like for himself. From what they talk about at the start of the episode, it sounds like he helped them out of a tight situation and that leads them to ask him for some more help... I guess his defensiveness is sufficiently broken down in that situation (although not entirely--with the whole hiding his level thing) to do it. It's a bit flimsy. I will give you this one. We also see him go for the special boss solo, even after Klein's group follows him and offers to help Kirito. He simply refuses that help. Obviously events transpire in such a way that he manages to slip away and square up with the boss. You could say he's doing it almost as a form of self-punishment by trying to right his own wrongdoing (I caused this so I should fix this). Still it's another example of him going solo and we are shown it, if not the whole encounter. Silica - he uses her as bait to capture those guys, after he's heard the story from the defeated guild leader. We see the solo aspect here as well. He's gone after these guys on his own out of his own sense of justice and fairness, but obviously he needs Silica to draw them out. So I do think it's disingenous to basically say "he's partying with Silica - solo player lol" when the reason he's doing it is because he's going solo in the first place to help that guild leader out. Asuna - they essentially party up to carry out this investigation together. She does approach him rather forcefully to say that he will be helping her, and as per previous precedent we've been shown that Kirito is not averse to helping people out. I suppose you could also argue that he's also trying to figure out how the PK was done, because as we see he strongly believes in the game's fairness and want to show that it still is fair. In most of the cases here - they almost always approach Kirito first and he doesn't deny these people his help. Last edited by arkon; 2012-08-16 at 11:53. |
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2012-08-16, 12:48 | Link #268 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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He's fighting the boss specifically for the resurrection object. If the item drops into the loot pool of a player, and Kirito joins a nine party guild to defeat the boss, the odds he'll get the object are 10%. Those aren't good odds. That's ignoring the fact that, as this arc shows, loot drama would occur. Someone could simply keep the res. item without saying a word, and everyone would assume it never dropped / was a silly rumor. As an outside in Klein's guild, even if Klein likes Kirito there is no guarantee Klein's guild mates would help Kirito. Of course Kirito is going to challenge the boss solo. By the same token Kirito can't possibly hope to explain to 9 other player's the importance of saving this one single dead girl when every single player in SAO has likely seen friends die. Odd, it's almost like the show is trying to follow the whole "show, don't tell" approach. |
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2012-08-16, 13:25 | Link #269 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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In addition, Kirito wasn't labelled as a beater back then so there was less danger of being PKed. In episode four however, that danger is ever looming so time taken away from grinding may be even more precious than it was back then. Quote:
I do think that this is the primary point of contention here. It seems that a lot of people aren't happy that we're getting very little focus on the soloing/beater aspect of the story. However I've been under the impression that that's not what these side stories were really about. Rather I think the main focus here is how different people react to this stressful situation they're presented with. We've seen scapegoating, anxiety, escapism vs. reality, and batshit insanity. It's quite the range already. |
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2012-08-16, 14:03 | Link #270 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And it's easy to see how helping Klein was dangerous, but going after Titan's hand wasn't. He wasn't without info on the latter's members, so he could judge his level sufficient. But at the beginning, they were all low level players. They hadn't been able to overlevel the way they would afterward, so he had very little margin to start with. |
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2012-08-16, 14:43 | Link #272 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I think Kirito had enough closure with the Black Cats after receiving Sacchis crystal and he helped the other guy out because he sympathized with him.
Also, aren't you to focused on the beater thing? Sure in the beginning it might have caused him some problems, but after they outplayed the beta it's more or less an even field. Currently I think it's just a insulting term just like noobs or so. |
2012-08-16, 15:21 | Link #274 | |||
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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On another note, I had initially brought up these specific points of the show as a means to argue about something else. I realize I'm kinda going off topic and addressing specifics not related to this episode. So I'll stop now |
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2012-08-16, 15:40 | Link #275 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Spoiler for novel aria in the starless night:
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2012-08-16, 15:52 | Link #276 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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I haven't read the LN, nor do I feel it's necessary to use it as a means to analyze the anime.
The lack of danger to Kirito is what I've been arguing this whole time. I actually do think that helping Klein would have been the more dangerous option, I was simply arguing that I don't think the danger was that much more significant. |
2012-08-16, 16:07 | Link #277 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Or maybe - though that kind of reasoning is a bit too convenient - the first attempt on the boss room, without him, would have resulted in total wipe out, plunging everyone into despair. And they'd never have gotten the guts to try again. Which sounds pretty dangerous, in its own way. |
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2012-08-16, 16:08 | Link #278 | ||||
Try me! <3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 40
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Or, if they don't want to do the deed himself, they'll just hire a PK death squad like Laughing Coffin to murder the person. As we've seen a single person holding a grudge is enough already, regardless how ludicrous the reason for the grudge is. Grimlock had a grudge against Griselda just because she turned out to be a different person that what he wanted her to be, so he had her murdered by Laughing coffin. Thus we see that PK guilds do take assassination requests, and that they're not picky when it comes to the reasons for it - they probably don't care. Now LC didn't have the slightest problem to murder Griselda, a well-respected guild member. How much easier must it be for them to murder someone who is a solo player and not well liked by several people? We've already seen that Kirito wouldn't be able to deal with LC, if he would be all by himself (hence the bluff about other front liners coming) - and he *would* be all by himself, all the time, as a solo player! As such, if he really would be a solo player, he would be in constant danger of being assassinated, given his bad reputation at the beginning. Quote:
At the beginning Kirito was portrayed as a solo player to make him look tougher. Look, Super-Kirito can take on anything by himself, he doesn't need a guild. As with many other things as well, this was done without any regards of the implications thereof. His supposed solo player status was then simply ignored on several occassions, just so he could team up with others whenever the story required it. Having him a solo players isn't too practical, after all. As I pointed out above, being a solo player would also be very dangerous in hindsight, with the PK guilds which the author made up later on, and which still later also carry out assasinations for pretty much arbitrary reasons. Again, this was probably made up on the spot as well, as he felt he needed more powerful antagonists, without any regards for the implications. Quote:
For his reputation to change, he can't have stayed a solo plyer, but must've played together with others frequently, for extended periods of time as well, so that they see that he isn't as bad as his reputation says, but actually a nice guy. He must've played together with others especially well even, for a long time, so that they trust him enough to rely on him in crital situations like the boss clearings. No even remotely sane person would say: "Look, there's Super-Kirito. He's super strong, but has an awful reputation. As he always stays by himself as a solo player and never talks with anyone, no one knows anything about him. But hey, let's invite him to the boss clearings, just because, even if we need 100% dependable people for such critical operations. So what if he turns out to be a bad person and attacks our backs while we're fighting the boss?" Kirito supposedly being a solo player probably seemed a good idea to the author at the beginning ("Look at Super-Kirito, handling all by himself!"), but becomes more and more impractical as the story proceeds, so he teams up several times regardless, and it also becomes more and more unlikely, if not even impossible, as more and more story elements are made up on the spot without previous planning, like strong PK guilds (LC) which also do assasinations for abitrary reasons.
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2012-08-16, 16:09 | Link #279 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
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2012-08-16, 16:21 | Link #280 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
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That is a good point, that probably did factor in to his decision. |
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