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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 20 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 24 | 39.34% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 23 | 37.70% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 8 | 13.11% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 4 | 6.56% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 1.64% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 1.64% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-03-08, 12:03 | Link #62 |
Senior Member
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I'm honestly wondering what you're looking for here.
I suppose a Sybil proponent more eloquent than Gino, and not Sibyl itself, would have been nice. Otherwise, all the key bases have been covered. I guess that some of the characters are a bit static, but at least Akane has shown nice character development, imo.
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2013-03-08, 12:29 | Link #63 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Los Angeles, California
Age: 39
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Pretty much this(and everything else you said in that post), thing is Gen's been saying this since episode one and using the rest of the series to point out how this would be so. Most people couldn't recognize literary techniques if it shot them in the face with a blue-ish green beam and stunned them untill they recognized it, while referencing their I.Q. level with a number. Hence: *WHOOOSH* |
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2013-03-08, 12:31 | Link #64 | |||||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Sibyl's greatest justification is that society at large is peaceful, at least until Makishima came around. So whether or not we agree morally with Sibyl, the fact is that it has created order on a scale not seen in our world. I agree that Sibyl overall is not good as it is right now. But that largely depends if you agree with Gen's argument about free will in this show and why it's important to life itself. Quote:
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2013-03-08, 12:33 | Link #65 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Why argument accept or deny system when despite its faulty, it proved as much benefit and when there are third option that is improve the system. Look at what nuclear power plant's potential danger and what tragedy it has cause but we still able to improve it and make it contribute much more for or society.
About the criminal brain said about their contributes overweight their crimes, along time ago, I watch a detective TV series, one of episode deal with a doctor that commit crime to make moneys and done experiment that cost many life in order to create a vaccine that can prevent any illness of human. The MC caught him when he near death and try to save him, say that what he about to create is too value for the world, that he can't condemn or stop him. Last edited by Shiyumi; 2013-03-08 at 12:43. |
2013-03-08, 12:35 | Link #66 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I disagree I think they all (well all the main characters) have interesting things to say. Do any of them have new things to say, well not really. But I don't think new and interesting are the same thing.
But it seems to me the characters are being used as Urobuchi's own mouth pieces for many different ideas & philosophies. Obviously they are not Urobuchi's own ideas and he might not even agree with everything the characters are sprouting but I enjoy the many different philosophies and literary references in the series.
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2013-03-08, 12:45 | Link #67 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Perfect 10
Just my personal opinion of course, but this episode once again confirmed to me that Akane is a wonderful, beautiful being. She immediately recognizes the Sibyl system for the abomination that it is, and at the same time realises that she cannot destroy Sibyl or make its existence public. She understands that the system is needed and going along with the system's wishes is the best course of action. Yet despite this, her resolve does not waver. If she is to be a pawn, she'll never stand for being an unwitting pawn ever again, and she will not force herself to like what Sibyl is doing. Despite being played, she even found a way to play the system back, if it's only a little bit. It's because she understands why Sibyl wants to get their hands on Makishima's brain. The Discussion Two things occurred to me while reading the discussion in this thread: -There are apparently people in this thread who would like Akane to destroy Japan. I am unsure why they would want to do this, but they probably have some reason for this. I'm interested in hearing it. -I don't think anyone has mentioned the benefit of integrating Makishima into the system. |
2013-03-08, 12:52 | Link #68 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Kagari obviously didn't get the character development that Akane did but I enjoyed his conviction in the end that he hoped Makishima and his partner would destroy the sybil system but he was still against them. Strangely enough Akane and Kagari seemed to come to different conclusions about the sybil system but they both stuck to own beliefs and convictions at the end which is something I admire. I am not really sure what I think about Kougami's actions just yet and I will have to see how it all plays out. Kougami's ideas are closer to Kagari (and perhaps my own) but I am not sure if I agree with him going off on his own.
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2013-03-08, 12:57 | Link #69 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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The only argument Sybil made was that they were too big to fail. That if they were to fall, it would cause a ludicrous amount of human suffering. Sybil has in essence, over the course of decades, taken the entire nation of Japan hostage by enfeebling it. Akane cooperating with Sybil isn't agreeing with the philosophy or actions of the hostage takers. All she's doing is keeping the Makishima (or the Russian Special forces) from leveling the building with the hostages inside it. At this point its pretty obvious that if it had been up to Akane as she is now whether or not to transition to a system like Sybil, that she'd adamantly refuse. Quote:
Does it empirically improve Sybils ability to quantify crime coefficient? I'm sure if you asked sybil it'd SAY that it did. But I don't quite trust the objectivity of beings who so casually make claims to godhood. And even if it would expand/improve Sybil...would the way Sybil would end up improved be something that would translate into actual benefits for ordinary people? Does Makishima provide the insight for Sybil to realize that a certain people aren't really latent criminals? Does it help it figure out more fulfilling careers for a larger number of people? Or would Makishima merely be widening the definition for latent criminal, to better identify potential enemies of the state?
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Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2013-03-08 at 13:17. |
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2013-03-08, 13:03 | Link #70 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
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I think that we're being a bit too hasty in concluding that criminally asymptomatic=sociopath who committed crimes. Outside of Sybil, we've only seen three asymptomatic people. Of them, Touma is clearly a psychopath/sociopath, and Akane is clearly not; while Makishima might seem like one, let's try and check him with an official test like PCL-R:
Factor 1: Personality "Aggressive narcissism" Glibness/superficial charm - true Grandiose sense of self-worth - probably true Pathological lying - false: I can't remember a part in the show where Makishima lied. Conning/manipulative - well, he certainly is cunning, but the same thing as above applies for the manipulativeness; so 50/50 on this one Lack of remorse or guilt - true Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric) - debatable, but let's assume true (although I do think that he genuinely liked both Choe gu-song (they were friends for a long time) and Senguji (Makishima seemed impressed at his decision to stay and fight Kogami after the latter got a Dominator) Callousness; lack of empathy - true Failure to accept responsibility for own actions - false (episode 11: he is aware that his actions may lead to being shot by Akane and completely accepts that as an outcome) Factor 2: Case history "Socially deviant lifestyle". Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom - most likely true Parasitic lifestyle - no information; but this is pretty much inapplicable in a system governed by Sybil (no obvious way to use connections/manipulation), so I'm leaning more to 'false' here. Poor behavioral control - false Lack of realistic long-term goals - false ("I want to witness the splendor of the human soul. I want to see and check if it really is valuable.") Impulsivity - false Irresponsibility - most likely false Juvenile delinquency - unknown Early behavior problems - unknown Revocation of conditional release - inapplicable under Sybil Traits not correlated with either factor: Promiscuous sexual behavior - unknown, but probably false Many short-term (marital) relationships - false, as far as we know Criminal versatility (a diversity of types of criminal offenses, regardless if the person has been arrested or convicted for them; taking great pride at getting away with crimes.) - we've only really seen him murder (or help others murder), and I don't really think that he feels anything about the act itself; so false Acquired behavioural sociopathy/sociological conditioning (Item 21: a newly identified trait i.e., a person relying on sociological strategies and tricks to deceive) - not sure what exactly is meant here; once again, I don't really think that Makishima has openly 'deceived' anybody up to this point, but I'm not sure that this is all the meaning contains. I'm neutral on this one. For anybody who's keeping count, that's 6 true, 8 false (some aren't 100% sure, but still) and 7 unknown/undecided/inapplicable. Make what you want of this result. Also, studies (I could look up the exact names if you want) have shown that from a general sample, about 0,5% are potential psychopaths (scored 13+ on the PCL:SV, a simplified version of the PCL:R). If I remember correctly, criminally asymptomatic people were rarer that 1/1000000 = 0.000001%, which is ...less. All of this (and Akane) leads me to believe that the criteria that defines criminally asymptomatic people is more complex than ASPD, psychopathy, sociopathy or something like that. P.S. Also, I don't know how many members did Sybil have at it's inception, but I find it unlikely that any of them were criminals. All in all, there is too much of the big picture we aren't being told: When was Sybil created(it was at least 50 years back, but how long exactly)? How many people were originally in it? How were they chosen? When and how was the first asymptomatic person found? I sincerely hope that Uro eventually gives an answer to at least some of these questions. |
2013-03-08, 13:07 | Link #71 | |||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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The free will aspect may be the one that's been hammered the most (is it actually? I haven't been keeping score), but it's not the only flaw that's been touched upon. And it's certainly not the most important one. Quote:
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I wouldn't be so sure about that.
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2013-03-08, 13:09 | Link #72 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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^Akane should not be counted, to be eligible for the term "Criminally asymptomatic" would require the individual to be criminal, whereas Akane is not.
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Not even mentioning the fact that the desire to destroy Japan would make her Crime Coefficient skyrocket. |
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2013-03-08, 14:34 | Link #73 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Why? what is wrong with literary references. I am finally reading Gulliver's travels because of them.
It's not like Gen pretends where he got them from. He's very truthful that all the quotes are coming from somewhere else but I think it adds richness to the story. It actually kind of reminds me of a paper we had to write in college where you had to have a lot of different philosophers have a discussion. In Psychopass the dialog is coming from many different sources but when you combine these different sources that is what makes the discussions interesting to me. Quote:
But at the most I see Akane going for change not destruction.
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2013-03-08, 15:18 | Link #74 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Change requires the destruction of Sybil.
Sybil is NOT Japan. It likes to pretend it is. That it is too important to be shut down. That the nation is doomed without 250 brains in boxes telling everyone how to breath. But that's just self preservation talking. Too big to fail is too big to exist. Break it down, replace it with a normal government system with oversight, and the citizens would be non the wiser.
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2013-03-08, 15:23 | Link #75 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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How is that better? Wait don't answer that yet. How is one person going to pull this off? Yeah that's the better question. |
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2013-03-08, 15:48 | Link #76 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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And so it begins...
The Sybl's system argument that Akane didn't have the guts to really go against it was very powerful but it really applies to a lot of us. I'm sure a lot of have "raged against the machine" but not a lot of us have been confident enough to say we could provide a better alternative. And Akane's tortured conversations with her dead friends was really good. It added a lot to her character imo.
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2013-03-08, 15:51 | Link #77 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Why do you think that there's any correlation? I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of options besides "maintain Sibyl System" and "destroy Japan".
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2013-03-08, 15:52 | Link #78 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Japan had many regime and government changes in the past. It can survive another. And with much of the nation automated, it won't take many people to reboot the government and get everything back in order. There is nothing wrong with the robots themselves that are working, we just need to change the people giving orders.
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2013-03-08, 15:56 | Link #79 | ||
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Or how to remove a person's brain without killing the person. |
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