2014-04-20, 20:59 | Link #2162 |
I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
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This was never confirmed you know... All we got was that Ollerus said Gunhas powers would be amazing if he mastered them.
I really don't know how much we should trust anything Ollerus has to say especially if Gunha's power works according to phases, which Ollerus apparently has 0 clue about. I don't think Gensei really has a clue either. We don't even know if Aleister has a clue, though he probably does since he was made a level 5 instead of being kept as a level 0... |
2014-04-20, 22:18 | Link #2163 | ||||||||
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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The simple fact that the wings are wings and that the mechanism behind them hasn't been explained yet are not good reasons. Most of Pendex's spells have not been given in-depth explanations. We can assume that she took Telesma and made angelic wings out of them, but this is not something outside the realm of ordinary, albeit impossibly powerful, magic. Mark Space was also able to create angel shaped phenomena by manipulating Telesma. Quote:
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How recent are those charts? Because as of chapter 69 of Railgun, I would have to disagree. The Black stuff that Mikoto conjured up has one important feature in common with Accelerator's Black Wings; it was too powerful for IB to negate. As seen in Volume NT7 when Rensa used it against Touma, Kakine's Dark Matter is perfectly erasable by IB. Mikoto 5.5's output is superior to Kakine's. I doubt he could have done anything against that Black Sphere even in his current state. Unless, of course, it is not an Esper power at all, as I and others have speculated. Again my source is Railgun chapter 69. Do you have any quotes that can outweigh that speculation? Quote:
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2014-04-21, 00:53 | Link #2164 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
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and i think they mean that mikoto is under awakened kakine and if dark matter kakine is over the whole world, than he would be able to win too.... |
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2014-04-21, 03:09 | Link #2165 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Awakened Kakine may be more powerful than Mikoto 5.5 in her early stages, but he would lose to her in her latter stages. At first, Mikoto merely received a big boost in power, allowing her to launch bolts dozens of times stronger than her usual maximum, as well as the ability to teleport. We can liken this to Kakine's awakening, as he managed to power up his ability considerably and gain more insight into it. However, in her later stages Mikoto 5.5 went beyond that, reaching past her power to conjure a Black Power that had nothing to do with electricity or magnetism. In the end, Kakine was stuck with his ability. He was unable to go beyond Dark Matter to obtain the same power that allowed Accelerator to paste him. It doesn't matter that he could win against everything in the world, as Gunha referred to that Black Sphere as something not of this world. I stand by my speculation that it is the same stuff that makes up Accelerator's wings and that if Kakine were to face it, he would lose just as hard.
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2014-04-21, 03:29 | Link #2166 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
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the only way to decide this: kamachi should give kakine more feats |
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2014-04-21, 08:49 | Link #2167 | |||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Oh, just you know grimoires are outside the realm of ordinary you know? That's why nobody dares to even take a glance at them. Quote:
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Aleister's MO is to take magic, plunder its mysteries, then stick them under a microscope and probe every bit of them until they turn into science. Science is a collection of knowledge gathered through the scientific method, so it is not necessarily limited to physics and can extend to anything that can be tested and experimented on. As the inverse of Clark's Third Law goes, any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science.[/QUOTE] Quote:
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Last edited by Birdway; 2014-04-21 at 11:03. Reason: EDIT |
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2014-04-21, 10:05 | Link #2168 | |||||||
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Saying what? I'm afraid that our previous conversations have shown that I do not always understand what you're trying to say. If it isn't too much to ask, could you be more specific from now on?
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To make a simile, if a normal spell is like an early day musket, then a Grimoire spell is like a modern day assault rifle. The latter is obviously superior to the former, but ultimately it based on the same principles and technology refined and improved upon. Special powers like those of Majins, on the other hand, are like the Phasers from Star Trek. Powers like those have reached a whole different level, a level which I believe Index has yet to achieve. Quote:
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You could say the same thing about magic. Ultimately, as Birdway pointed out in Volume NT2, Magic is not all that different from Science. Both are specialized forms of knowledge perfect through trial and error over the centuries. The division between the Science side and the Magic side exists less because the two are incompatible and more as a safety measure against war. Quote:
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2014-04-21, 10:15 | Link #2169 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
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than with this: if a majin is a phaser, than a Level6 would be a weapon from the Borgs.... and the endgoal of aleister, the current state of aiwass: they would be the Q's from star trek.... this fits suprisingly good XD |
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2014-04-21, 10:50 | Link #2170 | |||||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
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What Index made Komoe cast needed a preparation/ritual/arrays beforehand just like Mark did with his cards and that took him time . Quote:
Etzali was chosen by a grimoire yet it still wears down his mind with poison. Quote:
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For example, this maybe a hint from Endymion movie, Shotaura became an esper after separating herself from Arisa that is a being/ego created by magic, and at the end fused their bodies/minds as one, what does this means? We have yet to see in the future. Quote:
@LevelSeven lolnope, grimoires can't be compared to weapons (some characters tried to used them as such and met a painful end), those things are like a virus with their own mind. Last edited by Birdway; 2014-04-21 at 11:07. |
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2014-04-21, 11:37 | Link #2171 |
Honos628
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mexico
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I would like to add that Bettle Kakine admit he can't use the full power of Dark matter because he is afraid the dark parts of him to surface and take control, so yeah the dark matter that was used vs Rensa is a weak version of it.
There are some special humans The pope could read several grimmores (he was in pain but he did manage... which speak a lot of his will and magic level) Fiamma never really read a grimmore directly Aureolus wrote and seal several grimmores (then again outside the super mages he is pretty freaking broken himself). |
2014-04-21, 11:47 | Link #2172 | |||||||||||
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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The fact that Index can't use magic is, in a sense, true. John's Pen monopolizes all of her mana so that neither she nor the Grimoires can get to it, which keeps her safe but also stops her from casting spells of her own will. Quote:
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As for Laura, you can also speculate that since she's the one who placed the John's Pen in the first place, she might have a secret technique in reserve that allows her to subdue it in case it is ever turned against her. She seems like the type of person who would do that. Case in point: Quote:
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Also, Arisa was not created by magic. Like Fräulein Kreutune, she was a being that did not belong to either side. As proof, despite being a Level 0, she did not suffer any rejection when calling upon her miracle singing. Oh, but it changes everything. Dark Matter's limits are not well defined, but it certainly isn't omnipotent. There are things it simply cannot do. We've seen that Dark Matter is as good as wet tissue paper when faced with Accelerator's Black Wings, so if Mikoto 5.5 can conjure the same power that Accelerator did, even unstably, that places her firmly above him.
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2014-04-21, 11:56 | Link #2173 | ||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
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The one Tecpatl had was an original, and the one which made Xochitl's body erode was an original as well. Quote:
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Styil caused the interference with his restrain card. Quote:
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Btw, the time when that incident and then the mix happened were outside the Earth, so there must be something related about being outside Earth's influence? Quote:
If we asked about who are special within AC I think nobody would disagree if I named : Accelerator, Kakine and Gunha. Aleister himself aside, of course. Last edited by Birdway; 2014-04-21 at 12:08. |
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2014-04-21, 12:02 | Link #2174 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
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kreutune isnt science (PR) or magic or even a miracle because she is simply a different species... she is he only real Mutant in toaru.... Quote:
in fact: only that he can create infinite matter which defies physics is a broken power, without the immortal-power-up.... unfortunatly he seems to never use that part of his ability.... either lack of experience or kakine will always be a "im coming back stonger than before but everyone still defeats me"-char. PS: for index's wings, wasnt their a part where many magical circles showed up behind her back?? or was it in her eyes??, either way, isnt this enough to take this wings into a "spell"-category?? |
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2014-04-21, 12:31 | Link #2176 | ||||||
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Pendex's lack of concentration made it take longer to meet the conditions, but once a spell was active, its power was not contingent on her mental focus. This makes all the sense in the world. Quote:
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Objection! I asked myself and I disagreed! You lied to me!
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2014-04-21, 12:49 | Link #2177 | ||||||
Banned
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There are various parts from the same chapter starting with "At the same time". Quote:
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2014-04-21, 20:27 | Link #2178 | ||
I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
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Have we seen any fire user level 5 for example (control over entropy...) There are a lot of potentially broken powers for level 5 users, but Academy City just hasn't provided the resources. I think they're special because Aleister has special uses for them. We don't know if Mikoto would be stable or not, we're just relying on Gensei's word which might be a little outdated considering he doesn't know about magic... All I'm saying is that we're using a lot of shaky details to make the speculations made above. |
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