Sabaody Archipelago Arc Discussion [Anime-only]

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by Wargumm1i

Anime watcher huh? its not that much of a spoiler since more than 80% of all anime and manga readers know it.

I'm not the anime-only watcher but some people are, and the fact that OP shows stuff doesn't approve of telling everyone what those things are.

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by The Small One

That's what I thought too after reading the manga.

But the anime-crew then surely messed up. Not only did they show Luffy's face in angry-mode immediately before she was knocked out; it even looked like she was hit from Luffy's direction, falling backwards... how should an anime-only viewer get the correct impression, that it was Rayleigh, this way?

Plus Rayleigh comes in and is waaay to confused. I know that if someone in real life would take 20 seconds to grasp a situation then he's super smart, but not in anime.
In anime world you have to come out knowing it

[Petbe]

Originally Posted by Wargumm1i

No as a matter of fact Luffy haki is acutally a very high level one, and he used Haki too knock out the bull few episodes back, and in the manga he used it too knock out more than half the population of Amazon women in an instance at the stadium, and then again he knocked out a pack of wolves with his haki.

Haki is ones ambition and will, the greater the ambition and will the stronger the haki will be. Maybe.[/SPOILER]

His is not a high level one because it is not something that is mastered right away. The Bull was the first time he used it and even then, it was not at the same level as what occurred in there. Also, the Amazon is in the future so not going to even talk about that, especially since this is anime-only, anything that has yet to happen in the anime should not be mentioned.

Originally Posted by Wargumm1i

Anime watcher huh? its not that much of a spoiler since more than 80% of all anime and manga readers know it.

(Made up %) Even if the 80% was true, that spoiler would still be for 20% of the people, and as long as there is still some %, it should be used as courtesy. Also, I am an anime-only watcher, so the fact you mentioned about the amazon part is bad.

[Kafriel]

Finally changed the introductory speech, the old one was getting...well, OLD! Pretty nice episode this week too, I hadn't noticed that the bear holds a sword o_0

Anime watcher huh? its not that much of a spoiler since more than 80% of all anime and manga readers know it.

Well, the op says absolutely no spoilers, and since it wasn't explained that time, it counts as a spoiler for now...anyway, even now it's not all too important. Can't wait for next Monday!

[Petbe]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Finally changed the introductory speech, the old one was getting...well, OLD! Pretty nice episode this week too, I hadn't noticed that the bear holds a sword o_0

Well, the op says absolutely no spoilers, and since it wasn't explained that time, it counts as a spoiler for now...anyway, even now it's not all too important. Can't wait for next Monday!

I agree about the new intro commentary. Although I liked it and thought it was cool, it is nice to see a change one in a while. Especially with the new OP added.

[CeDeR]

please stop spoiling...damn

[AceD]

Originally Posted by Wargumm1i

Anime watcher huh? its not that much of a spoiler since more than 80% of all anime and manga readers know it.

o...never mind the other 20% then

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by CeDeR

please stop spoiling...damn

There should be like sweet bans for such thing.
I allow only one spoil to a story like OP and it's the same as for Bible. Jezus dies&ressurects and Luffy becomes PirateKing XD

[thundrakkon]

My friends and I (anime only people) was watching the scene with Rayleigh coming out and analyzing the situation. We came to the conclusion that Luffy used Haki to knock down the female Celestrial Dragon, since Rayleigh was also analyzing her on the ground, as if he did not know how she was knocked out. Also, the haki sound is different for Rayleigh and Luffy, and this sound was Luffy's, if I recall correctly.

So, for the anime at least, the scene showed Luffy knocking out the Celestrial Dragon lady.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

^Not like that really matters, since the manga always takes precedence over the anime.

[andy]

To my anime only friends they said it was Rayleigh because in a ep before he was showed knocking a person out with it , also when saw him knock out other people there were certain. But that goes to show that it could be either way to some people .Which goes to show that scene was done badly in the anime.

[Petbe]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

My friends and I (anime only people) was watching the scene with Rayleigh coming out and analyzing the situation. We came to the conclusion that Luffy used Haki to knock down the female Celestrial Dragon, since Rayleigh was also analyzing her on the ground, as if he did not know how she was knocked out. Also, the haki sound is different for Rayleigh and Luffy, and this sound was Luffy's, if I recall correctly.

So, for the anime at least, the scene showed Luffy knocking out the Celestrial Dragon lady.

Well I am not sure with your conclusion. First of all, I am anime-only and my first instinct was that it was Rayleigh. Few things that need to be addressed. First of all, the sound that Luffy's Haki made is not the same as the one that was used. All three sounded differently which tosses that reasoning out the window since it can't be used in either side of the argument. There is also the possibility that the sound differs with how it is used. Rayleigh used it almost spread out, affecting a wide range of them, not just a single person. But questions come up, can it be controlled to who gets effected, why weren't the umm, weaker people effected than (starfish, etc.).

Next, Rayleigh was analyzing everything. There are numerous possibilities to why he would look at her, but he was trying to get an understanding of the entire situation. I know if it was me, I would have done the same since it was an integral part of the situation, irregardless of who knocked her out.

The last point is the general flow of the scene. The scenes are meant to be of a linear nature, point A leads to point B which leads to point C. So first, you have the Haki that was used. Which leads to her falling, the people calling out her name and everyone being generally shocked. Now at this point, it would flawed if the attention went to Luffy since he was the one who used, but no. The question of what happened, who it was is in place, and that is when he walks in.

I think it is one of those situations where unless you try to analyze it completely, most would believe it was Rayleigh who did it. Just because of the linear progression of the scene plants that idea into us.

[monir]

While speculation by any anime-only viewer is fine, blatant spoiler from the source material that gives away future plot point for the corresponding anime adaptation is definitely a no-no. Since this is an anime-only thread, nobody can post manga-spoiler, even under spoiler tag, in this thread.

The post with the spoiler is deleted.

[thundrakkon]

To tell you the truth, I originally thought it was Rayleigh, since he used it before to knock out Disco trying to put the colar on Camie, and he showed up right after. However, my friends saw it differently from me and convinced me otherwise.

After listening to the sound in the prison when Rayleigh knocked out Disco, it was the same one used in episode 397 to knock out Shalulia. Conclusion: inconclusive for anime version.

Btw, the background of the auction house stage had the symbol of a pirateskull. Is it a crew we have seen before? If so, which crew is that?

[Petbe]

Originally Posted by The Small One

I think it's understandable for Anime-only viewers to assume it was Luffy. A normal watcher shouldn't really take much time to analyze the whole situation, and showing Luffy immediately before the Haki-burst should be the main deciding factor.
If I didn't know the manga, I would have thought so as well.

I am getting a feeling that you misread what I said. Perhaps not, I am a tad confused. partly due to the "as well" comment. Since I was believing it was Rayleigh and not Luffy. Also in the situation where a person appears dramatically (such as breaking down a wall), it is not the prior act but what occurred after. What I mean is, in the case of this episode. Because of the mystery of her falling unconscious, it is not the prior image (Luffy) that would be important, but what happens after. Since it will be 'explaining' what or why it occurred.

In this episode, I do not think the way things were portrayed were out of order to the extend of mass confusion. I think If they had shown Luffy's puzzle expression a tad sooner and edited the scene of when Rayleigh walks in, things would be clearer. In my opinion, that would have been the best fix since I firmly believe that the linear progression was correct.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

To tell you the truth, I originally thought it was Rayleigh, since he used it before to knock out Disco trying to put the colar on Camie, and he showed up right after. However, my friends saw it differently from me and convinced me otherwise.

After listening to the sound in the prison when Rayleigh knocked out Disco, it was the same one used in episode 397 to knock out Shalulia. Conclusion: inconclusive for anime version.

Btw, the background of the auction house stage had the symbol of a pirateskull. Is it a crew we have seen before? If so, which crew is that?

Yeah I noticed that too and was uncertain of its importance. I wouldn't mind knowing unless it was something that will be brought up later. Maybe it was for the dragon celestial or the owner of the auction house, I don't know.

[andy]

Originally Posted by Petbe

I am getting a feeling that you misread what I said. Perhaps not, I am a tad confused. partly due to the "as well" comment. Since I was believing it was Rayleigh and not Luffy. Also in the situation where a person appears dramatically (such as breaking down a wall), it is not the prior act but what occurred after. What I mean is, in the case of this episode. Because of the mystery of her falling unconscious, it is not the prior image (Luffy) that would be important, but what happens after. Since it will be 'explaining' what or why it occurred.

In this episode, I do not think the way things were portrayed were out of order to the extend of mass confusion. I think If they had shown Luffy's puzzle expression a tad sooner and edited the scene of when Rayleigh walks in, things would be clearer. In my opinion, that would have been the best fix since I firmly believe that the linear progression was correct.


Yeah I noticed that too and was uncertain of its importance. I wouldn't mind knowing unless it was something that will be brought up later. Maybe it was for the dragon celestial or the owner of the auction house, I don't know.

You find out who pirates symbol it is in next ep.
The starfish needs to die , thank god we won't see him anymore.

[syler321]

i dont understand whats so confusing ppl?
they did a close up on luffy bcos they wanted u to see he wants to do something like all the other crew memebers but they coudnt cos they were to slow and far from camie...

now rayligh was much close only behind a wall,once he did his haki thing and broke the wall they showed all the crew memebres expression,sanji,law and kid allo said who is this guy and what is that power of his,thats why the giant wasnt suprised cos he saw rayligh use his haki thing before....

so it was luffy haki ok?luffy dosent know he even have haki or how to use it,every time he did used it wasnt bcos he controled his haki just bcos he lost control and got pissed so his haki was released...

im sure that mihaw and kuma or even the admirals haki is much much stronger,same goes for whitebeard and shakns and the other yanukos all of them can probably use haki very well just like rayligh...

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Though technically there seems to be some kind of plot hole: How could Rayleigh even knock her out, without knowing what's going on in the front? Since it was only her who passed out, it must have been a burst which was targetted specifically for her, like the slave trader before.

You have a point there. I guess we could conclude that he sensed her about to shoot someone and knocked her out behind the wall, if we assume that he was the one that used haki. Otherwise, it was Luffy's burst of desire and need at that point that knocked her out. If Rayleigh just busted through the wall and cause her to be knocked out, then why didn't Camie get knocked out as well?

As for the pirate symbol on the wall, it apparently is from Donflamingo, from this current episode.

Law's ability is insane. How the heck is anyone supposed to stop him? If Luffy went against Law right now, I don't think Luffy can win.

[Petbe]

Originally Posted by The Small One

I understood quite well what you said and I was contradicting you.

In most of the uses of Haki in the series (for example Shanks against the Sea King or Luffy against Duval's bull) the user of the Haki was shown before the action, and they were shown with a specific, angry face expression.
And here it's basically the same. The anime shows Luffy in angry-mode just before the woman falls down.
So the most logical conclusion, for someone who doesn't already know that it was Rayleigh (from the manga) would be to assume it was Luffy's doing, not Rayleigh.



Though technically there seems to be some kind of plot hole: How could Rayleigh even knock her out, without knowing what's going on in the front? Since it was only her who passed out, it must have been a burst which was targetted specifically for her, like the slave trader before.

I understand, but I would disagree with it being the most 'logical conclusion'. In the other times used, you see the face and while keeping on the face, you would see the ripple effect or which ever graphics they use. But they did not do that (which makes it different from the other times), it was simply the flow of the situation. Show everyone distraught, everyone wanting to stop and than finally Luffy. They could have had anyone shown right before and it wouldn't change much, but because of Luffy being the captain and being the one who threw the first punch, it is for the best they did.

So in the delay and not showing the Haki actually during Luffy's part, it is only only implanting the idea of "uhh what the hell just happened". Followed by that is of course the "uhh what the hell just happened" expression where he is pretty much is speechless. Which is ultimately followed by Rayleigh. You can toss around the phrase "logical conclusion" but it has no substance and merely sounds fancy when in reality it is subjective. This entire discussion is subjective, based off of subjective views of which throws logic out the window. I can just as well say that what I concluded what the most 'logical conclusion' for most who have not read the manga (or were told who it was) but it would have neither more or less merit or depth to it. But like I said earlier, the timing with the "uhh.. what the hell just happened" and the falling debris should have been done better and fixing that would do away with most of the confusion.

But as for how he knew, that is an entirely different question. Simply because it can't be explained without any certainty nor can it can be said that its impossible for what he did. It may be possible that he sense her killing intent or something and used it on her to stop everyone from fighting. Who knows, unless it is explained in the manga or later on, I doubt we will ever know the answer unless we asked the creators of OP themselves.

[shankss]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Law's ability is insane. How the heck is anyone supposed to stop him? If Luffy went against Law right now, I don't think Luffy can win.

If you think that is powerful...Just wait a few eposides more for the most overpowered devil fruit ever