Never seen a more abused character? Ever watch Berserk or read the Manga? Poor Casca was abused so bad that her mind was destroyed(She used to be such a great character untill "that" happened) and she doesn't even recognize her lover and even attacks him multiple times when he tries to protect her. She can't even speak anymore and acts like a child and the Skull Knight even tells Guts that restoreing her mind, and making her have to live through what happened like Guts had to, may not be what she wants(I don't think anyone would want to remember seeing all her friends die, get raped by multiple demons, than get raped by the man she respected right in front of her lover who cuts off his own arm and loses an eye trying to save her, but failing and their child is corrupted by the rapes into a mini demon, all in the span of a few hours) but Guts can't accept that because he wants Casca back so bad that he's willing to have both of them go through even more abuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuul
I still have some hope AmataxMikono are not end game. They have been pointing left and right at stuff being not that great between the 2. So there is still chance it mays not be bad writting.
Casting Mikono away would be a great step forward for Amata's character.
The one thing I didn't like is the return of Mixy and Andy in the preview. I was expecting they would at least leave those 2 alone. TT
I did like the bit about Zess and Mykage. Why does he need her body is my bigger interest at the moment.
Isn't it obvious why he wants a womans body(Didn't he even try to ecome a woman at one point?)? He wants to make a baby but apparantly even though Amata is just a stupid dog now it puts into question why he doesn't just do it with the Solar Aquarion and why he needs Amata for that. Maybe he still thinks Amata is Apollonius?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuul
I wouldn't be so definitive if I were you. they have been getting out of their way to give their relationship plenty of intentional bad moments.
There's no way they will go with the Zessica route, they want to keep kicking her and make people feel sorry for her. If she got with the dog than people would be happy for her not pitying her which is something they clearly don't want. So there's only Mikono end route from what I can see and that's broken. So making Amata into a stupid loyal dog means they can just say "Deal with it, he's a dog.". Though it will be very awkward for Mikono to be like "I love overly obsessed animals that want to hump my leg! Take me!".
I haven't been following this show, but I have played Super Robot Wars Z so I do know the core mythos and this late plot twist just sounds like typical Mari Okada man hating master/slave fetishistic nonsense of the kind that is only barely being stifled in Lupin III. It also just sounds like the sort of example of the reason why I don't have any respect for Satelight/Kawamori produced shows since they're all pretty well like this at this point. Just rock stupid time wasting affairs that go nowhere.
Lucky for the SDF Macross franchise he wasn't like this back in the 80's, but now I'd argue it's time to find some way to take it away from him before it's too late to save it. Seriously!
Triple R: Zessica's treatment is actually finally starting to make a lot more sense to me.
It looks like the moral of Aquarion is now "love the one you're with" (). With that in mind, we basically have Celianne:Pollon::Amata:Zessica...and we even have Zessica doing the "hey, if I'm reincarnated in 12000 years..." thing like, apparently, Pollon did.
I can take a couple guesses at which way this might go but am not feeling brave enough to project this show's future path. But I can still see something wherein, in the spirit of "love the one you're with", we'll get Apollonius happy Celianne's reincarnations are happy, and then Mikono encouraging Amata in a similar way (so: Apollonius: (Silvia+Apollo)::Mikono: (Amata+Zessica) ?).
That said, if the show *doesn't* do something along those lines with her now I'll be scratching my head together with you, because other than that I really can't figure out what they could possibly be thinking making her suffer so much for so long.
Last edited by miketyson; 2012-06-04 at 11:26.
Reason: fixed accidental emoticons
miketyson: Well, I hope you're right, but I've learned not to get my hopes up as far as Zessica is concerned. I guess that if nothing else, "Zessica" might get a nice follow-up to this in the next Aquarion.
miketyson: Well, I hope you're right, but I've learned not to get my hopes up as far as Zessica is concerned. I guess that if nothing else, "Zessica" might get a nice follow-up to this in the next Aquarion.
With all the trolling going on I don't think anyone would want to subject the reincarnations to another Aquarion.
@KaioshinSama So my George Lucas comment wasn't that far off?
That's a pretty fair comparison. Back then he had good ideas, but now it's like every single inclination he has can almost be argued as objectively wrong.
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Originally Posted by FLCL
TL;Dr. Kawamori should stick with Macross.
No no, seriously it's fine if he sticks with this sort of stuff, it keeps him occupied being able to channel his inner rock stupid desires and fetishes which he seems to have in common with Okada and in fact keeps him the hell away from Macross and doing more damage to the original's legacy. That said the anniversary is coming up so I'm pretty damn nervous right now not going to lie.
All this said when I think of the wild guy Apollo was at the start of the original story, the twist ultimately is workable, but when you factor in how long it took to come to this conclusion and the whole loyal dog thing it's clear the idea came from one Mari Okada and not the original writing staff. That's easily her bread and butter style of portraying relationships at this point. It's not about mutual love with her at this point it seems, it's about the lowly male being totally subservient to the idealistic female. On rare occasions vice versa, but never a healthy normal relationship that isn't icky and fetishitic in some way. I would imagine that's the reason people are tiring of and objecting to this kind of writing from her of late.
Triple R: I was skeptical until the dog twist, but contrary to a lot of people to me it says there's actually a *ton* of thought and planning that went into this, and thus it's worth paying more attention to parallels and so on...that, and it changes up the themes of both shows -- basically in the direction I thought they'd go, so I'm happy about that -- and the way the parallels shake out actually look good for Zessica for once.
Though, based on everything so far, if she does better than a happy ending implied in the epilogue I'll be a bit surprised.
No no, seriously it's fine if he sticks with this sort of stuff, it keeps him occupied being able to channel his inner rock stupid desires and fetishes which he seems to have in common with Okada and in fact keeps him the hell away from Macross and doing more damage to the original's legacy. That said the anniversary is coming up so I'm pretty damn nervous right now not going to lie.
I think you might be putting SDF on a bit of a pedestal, just like Star Wars fans do with the original trilogy.
I think you might be putting SDF on a bit of a pedestal, just like Star Wars fans do with the original trilogy.
I enjoyed it, it's not totally rock stupid, it was a formative anime for me....I'd like to not see it totally transformed if possible, but frankly it might have already been too late as far back as the 90's and Macross Seven, which while enjoyable in it's own way has little in common with the original. At this rate I found Macross Frontier a decent watch, I'd just like for things to not get any worse for the franchise. That's basically where I stand on the matter and there's no attempt to put it on the pedestal believe me.
So we have people that think this is stupid. People that think this is genius. And people that think it makes sense, but is still stupid.
I'd have to say I'm in group 3
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Originally Posted by miketyson
Put me in group 2.5: I started out thinking it was just a hilarious joke but the more I think about it the more I like it a lot. Probably easier for me to absorb as someone who still hasn't seen Genesis.
I gotta agree, I'm either completely in group 3 or 2.5. Cause really, the reveal of the "Pollon" generation line was just too....wtf for me. It was all fine until the Pollon reveal, to the point that my brain received the "What the hell just happened?" signal.
I ended up watching Genesis of Aquarion before watching Aquarion Evol (which is now officially RECOMMENDED, especially since the episodes/cast is just as enjoyable, and it HELPS, ALOT, as well as with the recent reveals). I am still in love with the Aquarion series even with this weird(but nonetheless enjoyable) episode. Perhaps its just me getting shocked and need time to take the breather, I mean heck :
Spoiler for 23:
Another character just bit the foreshadowed bullet, pineapple-less! And seeing the two people Shrade was closest too, both Cayenne and Clea/Claire tearing up was the icing on the cake.
You did it Shrade, you finished your musical piece. R.I.P
(Remembering Macross Frontier, I feel like any Shoji Kawamori anime has target reticle to any blonde character....the poor bastards T T)
My problem is, while I did finish Genesis, I didn't check the OVA yet, but I never really recalled this "Pollon" character until now, maybe he was shown in Genesis, but it would be really something you'd put at the back of your mind as the focus was always about the Apollonius generation line and the connections to the characters. My beef is, while some things make sense (eg. Pollon's beast side spreading) some other things make me think, why
Spoiler for Genesis:
All the link up with Apollo and Apollonius in the earlier in the genesis series, especially episodes 12 and 13 when Apollo and Silvia were "recollecting" their memories of 12000 years ago (24000 now), it just feels like a retcon.
I mean heck this will all be interpretation now cause Pollon did appear in episode 12 (after just having a quick skim), but they make it look like Apollo was recollecting himself as Apollonius especially since the feather they touched was Apollonius + all the other signs. I mean yes the answer is obviously "thats what they want you to think" but come on, 7+ years just for this weird reveal, everything else has been laid out properly until, well now (only the Pollon part, at least for me)
And the other fact that I've always thought of is, that Apollonius and Celiane had descendents, leading to Sirius and Silvia, who are soul reincarnations of Celiane.
Apollo being from Pollon would sorta make sense as in the end, he and Silvia never had offsprings, leading to Amata and Kagura. But I put this to the back of my mind as this whole reincarnation trope in the series is a bit whacked so I paid it at the back of my mind...until now >>. Heck Pollon doesn't even have a proper reincarnation line, though this goes for Apollonius as well, my point that I'm trying to get to is, it just feels so, out of nowhere, misplaced.
But I guess this makes Amata's "Fight fate" completely fitting now, though even I'm still wtf about all of this. And Mikono saying "sorry" also makes sense. Though now, if this whole Reincarnation is Pollon's fault.....then I really wanna say "Dammit dog, stay boy stay!" Don't make the series anymore bizzare (in a good way) xD
Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson
Gohan78: you do point out an interesting possibility: Kagura is literally "Dark Amata", Mykage is basically "Dark Touma", and Mikono...well, she's not actually dark Celianne, but with purple hair and being so depressed all the time it's fair to say she's at least a bit dark...very very interesting.
Agreed with this, pretty clever, we can now have a fully dark aquarion happening. My interest is Zessica's requirement on being a capable vessel to Mykage, maybe it's some Shadow/Dark Angel spell? Or he needs someone whose state is in darkness (eg. Zessica's unrequitted love + needs to be in Altair, Altair being the dark half of earth (imo) )
Half of them in trouble and the other half watching a history lesson.
Looks like history really repeats itself... every 12,000 years.
Zessica got body jacked!
I really feel sorry for her since she just can't get a break.
Really interesting episode this time, with lots of new info!
Genesis wasn't perfect. In fact most people consider it a cult classic. But when he introduced these new devlopments in Evol such as fighting against destiny which goes against the theme of Genesis.
As for the dog thing people are showing evidence but other people are saying there's still plotholes.
What I don't understand is why did Fudo say that Celiane only reincarnated into Silvia than into Mikono? Yet Fudo says that Apollo split this time by Mykage. What's his angle for leaving out Sirius?
As for the dog thing people are showing evidence but other people are saying there's still plotholes.
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Originally Posted by Haak
I don't know how the hell you create a plot twist that's both cleverly set up yet utterly banal, but somehow they've done it...
See thats the thing, normally a planned plotline twist that has been revealed ends up being either incredibly epic or just plain wtf no. With this, this is one of the first "I don't know how to feel about this" "planned" plot twist reveal I've ever gotten =/.
Location: 1st Ra Cailum-class battleship Ra Cailum, port-side officer's bunks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate
What I don't understand is why did Fudo say that Celiane only reincarnated into Silvia than into Mikono? Yet Fudo says that Apollo split this time by Mykage. What's his angle for leaving out Sirius?
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Sirius' exclusion had nothing to do with anything in-series, but was just that the EVOL staff left him out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KleenexGhost
How people consider this plot twist brilliant shocks me.
See thats the thing, normally a planned plotline twist that has been revealed ends up being either incredibly epic or just plain wtf no. With this, this is one of the first "I don't know how to feel about this" "planned" plot twist reveal I've ever gotten =/.
It shocks me when I go on myanimelist and I see people so adamant that it's genius and set up well just blows my mind.
). With that in mind, we basically have Celianne:Pollon::Amata:Zessica...and we even have Zessica doing the "hey, if I'm reincarnated in 12000 years..." thing like, apparently, Pollon did.
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