Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Shouta]

Originally Posted by Foreshadow

Anybody can improve on a finished product. Nobody can do it perfect the first time through though.

There are plenty of works where it's planned right from the start and the results come out good as a result. You CAN improve on a finished product, but on a good one, it'd only be minor tweaks at most. Frontier is definitely not one of those series.

One of my friends put it best, Frontier suffers from being unable to find its own niche within the Macross franchise. It's a pain to watch because you have series in the franchise that exemplify both ends of the focus spectrum (SDF Macross for Story, Macross 7 for Characters/Interaction) and even one that manages to do both extremely well (Mac+). Seeing the characters and story handled so haphazardly is frustrating.

I kind of agree with the assessment that someone said earlier about Alto being a sort of VN protagonist. I agree in the sense that he's a character that lacks any sort of impact and particularly meaningful growth. It really doesn't work because as the focus of a show, a main character without the presence drags it down. The main character usually is also the basis to build the other characters on working to weave the individual stories and challenges together. So in that regard, I think Alto is perhaps the weak link of the show (though that doesn't change my hatred for Ranka). Then there's the story, but oh well.

[BetoJR]

Opinions really are a wonderful thing, no?

[Foreshadow]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Opinions really are a wonderful thing, no?

Not when they disagree with me

Seriously though, If Space whales has it's own niche in Macross, then Frontier certainly does as well.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Shouta

There are plenty of works where it's planned right from the start and the results come out good as a result. You CAN improve on a finished product, but on a good one, it'd only be minor tweaks at most. Frontier is definitely not one of those series.

One of my friends put it best, Frontier suffers from being unable to find its own niche within the Macross franchise. It's a pain to watch because you have series in the franchise that exemplify both ends of the focus spectrum (SDF Macross for Story, Macross 7 for Characters/Interaction) and even one that manages to do both extremely well (Mac+). Seeing the characters and story handled so haphazardly is frustrating.

I kind of agree with the assessment that someone said earlier about Alto being a sort of VN protagonist. I agree in the sense that he's a character that lacks any sort of impact and particularly meaningful growth. It really doesn't work because as the focus of a show, a main character without the presence drags it down. The main character usually is also the basis to build the other characters on working to weave the individual stories and challenges together. So in that regard, I think Alto is perhaps the weak link of the show (though that doesn't change my hatred for Ranka). Then there's the story, but oh well.

I do agree with you about Alto. Unfortunately.

As for Frontier spoiling people about animation and the like, I still enjoy many shows from the 80's and 90's. I find the newest generation is usually the ones who have problems watching older(and in many ways superior) shows because of the antiquated style and animation.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Foreshadow

Not when they disagree with me

Seriously though, If Space whales has it's own niche in Macross, then Frontier certainly does as well.

I love Frontier to pieces, but even I would be happy if in the end it´d only be remembered as "That Sheryl show".

ALL HAIL HER MAJESTY!

Originally Posted by justinstrife

I do agree with you about Alto. Unfortunately.

I quite vehemently disagree. I lined out on the last page as to the particulars.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Too bad, though, that we apparently ain't getting no space or mecha epic this season. I hope there'll be news on that front next season.

Oops, forgot to answer this one: there's always KIDDY GiRL-AND, dude. Two out of three ain't that bad, eh? And, oh, there's that Satelight studio, again... they sure do get around...

[Proto]

The last comments in this thread give me the feeling that I have awakened monsters that had already been sealed.

[BetoJR]

Oh, you have no idea how much worse things were here, some time ago...

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Proto

The last comments in this thread give me the feeling that I have awakened monsters that had already been sealed.

You have no idea.

- Tak (and I haven't even gotten started)

[Yot-chan]

I dunno, I was well-pleased with the result, on pretty much every front. Macross shows are usually not very deep or thoughtful or realistic...they're just interesting, a hell of a lot of fun, and sometimes have the power to move the viewer (in this case, me) deeply (generally when a character I like dies, or goes through some kind of heartbreak).

I can also think of no other title in anime that has the power to turn big, manly, mecha-loving guy's guys into gossipy matchmaking schoolgirls.

I think people who like Macross but complain about Frontier, though, are perhaps looking at it the wrong way. Like it or not, Frontier was a huge smash success...and a rising tide lifts all boats. Macross Chronicle! Macross Ace! A VF-1 Technical Manual! Yoko Kanno concerts! Macross crossover singles! A NEW FIRE BOMBER ALBUM!!

None of this would've been possible without Frontier. And so, while it's not exactly the most intellectually rigorous thing to do, I'm willing to give Frontier a pass on most of its faults.

All I know is that I was hooked on it while it was running, following it week by week; I've watched the whole series several times since then, and had a blast each time; and I certainly wouldn't have started my "Complete Macross Translation Project" if Frontier hadn't really captured my heart. It's not perfect, but I like it a lot, and I imagine it's something I'll rewatch often as the years go on.

[Swampstorm]

I'm not sure that I follow the earlier discussion on characterization. As I understand it, characterization has to do with the descriptive quality of the work, in terms of painting a picture about a given character. Impact, by contrast, is much more personal; you can find a character to be utterly unremarkable without it being a reflection on his/her characterization.

In Alto's case, while he isn't particularily exciting to watch as some of his fellow cast members, he certainly is as, if not more, detailed as the rest.

With regards to Sheryl, I don't think that her character development was focused around her aspirations; her belief in herself was strong from the outset. The real challenge that she faced was in learning to open up to and trust others, which is why her storyline in the second half is more focused on her interpersonal development than on her individual development.

In that sense, you could say that Ranka and Sheryl's character development take complimentary paths.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

In that sense, you could say that Ranka and Sheryl's character development take complimentary paths.

You know, I never thought of it that way, but you're absolutely right. Sheryl has the confidence, but lacks a connection to the people around her. Ranka has the connections, but lacks the confidence.

Good observation.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I love Frontier to pieces, but even I would be happy if in the end it´d only be remembered as "That Sheryl show".

ALL HAIL HER MAJESTY!



I quite vehemently disagree. I lined out on the last page as to the particulars.

We'll just have to agree, to disagree magnuskn.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

We'll just have to agree, to disagree magnuskn.

Of course.

[HitagiIsHot]

All in all, I thought this was a good ending to the show, although I can't say that I liked the fact that the love triangle was not resolved and left open... and why isn't there a season 2 or a Macross *insert new name here* to continue the story?!

[monir]

Originally Posted by HitagiIsHot

All in all, I thought this was a good ending to the show, although I can't say that I liked the fact that the love triangle was not resolved and left open... and why isn't there a season 2 or a Macross *insert new name here* to continue the story?!

Two complimentary movies that apparently intend to follow up on the story, or to tell a different story by depending on the same premises are scheduled for November 2009 and sometime in 2010. Stay tuned. While you are at it, check out the Macross Movie thread.

[HitagiIsHot]

Originally Posted by monir

Two complimentary movies that apparently intend to follow up on the story, or to tell a different story by depending on the same premises are scheduled for November 2009 and sometime in 2010. Stay tuned. While you are at it, check out the Macross Movie thread.

Really? Sweet! Thank you for that information! I will definitely go check it out. Another thing I want to add about this episode is that the final battle is EPIC. Final battle + the song medley = awesomeness.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by HitagiIsHot

Really? Sweet! Thank you for that information! I will definitely go check it out. Another thing I want to add about this episode is that the final battle is EPIC. Final battle + the song medley = awesomeness.

See now, I hated the entire final episode. The battle was rushed, most of the loose ends were tied up way too easily, and the song medley gave me a head-ache. Too much to do, so little screen time left.

Don't even get me started on the unresolved love triangle.

[HitagiIsHot]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

See now, I hated the entire final episode. The battle was rushed, most of the loose ends were tied up way too easily, and the song medley gave me a head-ache. Too much to do, so little screen time left.

Don't even get me started on the unresolved love triangle.

Agreed the unresolved love triangle was a no-no haha. That's too bad the song medley gave you a head-ache, I thought it was pretty appropriate given the scene although I will agree with you that it was and felt rushed. The graphics were really good though (for 2007 standards and even still pretty nice for 2009-2010).

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

See now, I hated the entire final episode. The battle was rushed, most of the loose ends were tied up way too easily, and the song medley gave me a head-ache. Too much to do, so little screen time left.

Really? That final battle was great is my opinion To me, it wasn't so much that it was rushed, just really fast paced while the medley backed it up. The medley was also great for me, although I gotta agree that the loose ends were tied up way too easily/conveniently.