International Saimoe League 2009

[Ithekro]

So four weeks until the matches start, and two weeks until the final tier draws....whatever shall we do?

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

So two weeks until the matches start....whatever shall we do?

You can go spam...I mean campaign on the official forums!

[Juice[Lemon]]

Originally Posted by wontaek

In a round about way, ISML starts to resemble more and more closer to what I envisioned as a 'fair' yet 'fun' moe tournament. My first system would have nomination phase very similar to the current ISML, then a preliminary, which would have selected something like 24 out of 48, and then the main round, which could be many things. Psieye and I had some discussions about this, which may or may not influenced how the things here shaped up.

There is no such thing as perfect system. Every system has some pros and cons. Although I grieve at Kotori, Yomi, and Yoko not making it to the main 64, I now believe having some preliminary is better than none, provided some of following changes be made. I believe minhty already mentioned about implementing some of them.

1. Allow more than 1 votes per voters to minimize the splitting of votes between two similar characters or two characters from same series. Other than Touhou and perhaps Code Geass, ISML is not dominated by any large faction or block voters who will vote based on series, in contrast to other moe tournaments. In this climate, allowing multiple votes will give better representation of overall preference of the voter compared to just 1 vote per voter, which will lead to tactical/strategic votes once relative strength between characters can be guessed. Even if we have significat number of block/series voters, as long as they remain less than 30% of the total voters, multiple votes still will give fairer results.

2. Since more than 1 vote is allowed, more than 1 characters should advance per group. Added benefit to this scheme is that it makes guessing of relative strength between the characters much harder, thus will make tactical voting less likely, and it will speed up the preliminary phase.

3. This is a biggie, that may be much harder to swallow compared to the first 2. In order to lessen the number of recurring candidates and more fresh blood through nomination and prelim, change the cut off point of ISML winning percentage from 1/2 = 50% to 2/3 ~ 67%. This would mean instead of top 33 returning, we would have top 20 returning, thus more slots to fill for the nomination and prelim. This will drastically increase the excitement of the prelim, and will help improve the winning percentages of those who enter through prelim, thus making the top 16 harder to guess. If 2/3 ~67% sounds too drastic, we could lower the percentage slightly to 65% which would allow 24 to return. 65% is a nice number as that is close to 40 wins ~ 63% threshold.

Originally Posted by minhtam1638

That, I think, would be likely to be implemented than not. In the regular season, you have 32 matches to vote in, so you're virtually voting for 32 candidates at one time. So it sort of does make sense to allow at the most 2 votes per group (3 is pushing it)



I disagree. The International Saimoe League rewards candidates based on prestige, and I do not agree a 2nd place finish is enough for a candidate to move on to the regular season. More on that below.



ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I believe that the original proposition of 16 slots to determine the preliminary slots are enough, and any number higher than 20 is pushing it. The .500 rule is in place not only to reward candidates for winning more than losing, but to limit the number of nominations you need to get in. Part of the beauty of the International Saimoe League is that while, yes, the prelims are fun to watch, the point is that you have to have some substantial success in said moe tournament to even deserve a spot in this league. The preliminary system makes it so that you only need 1 win to get in as opposed to the 6 or 7 to win Korea or Japan's tournaments. And let me remind you something, it is HARDER to win a side-prize in the International Saimoe League in itself than it is to win the Anime Saimoe of Japan. That's the point of the automatic qualification system that we have here in ISML, and a proposition like this would diminish the storied success and value of obtaining even a place in a prestigious league like this.

I would consider some of the ideas mentioned when the staff discusses the new Nomination/Preliminary mechanisms.

On the .500 note, you have to remember now that OT wins do NOT equal 100% of possible points like last year. Because of this, I expect maybe 28 Contestants to return next year.

[Ithekro]

If I recall, last years .500 rule was to full in in case the other Saimoe tournaments failed to fill slots with new blood...which they did. Basically getting four new (well three new and one repeater) girls from the various Saimoes instead of the 24 possible.

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by minhtam1638

That, I think, would be likely to be implemented than not. In the regular season, you have 32 matches to vote in, so you're virtually voting for 32 candidates at one time. So it sort of does make sense to allow at the most 2 votes per group (3 is pushing it)



I disagree. The International Saimoe League rewards candidates based on prestige, and I do not agree a 2nd place finish is enough for a candidate to move on to the regular season. More on that below.



ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I believe that the original proposition of 16 slots to determine the preliminary slots are enough, and any number higher than 20 is pushing it. The .500 rule is in place not only to reward candidates for winning more than losing, but to limit the number of nominations you need to get in. Part of the beauty of the International Saimoe League is that while, yes, the prelims are fun to watch, the point is that you have to have some substantial success in said moe tournament to even deserve a spot in this league. The preliminary system makes it so that you only need 1 win to get in as opposed to the 6 or 7 to win Korea or Japan's tournaments. And let me remind you something, it is HARDER to win a side-prize in the International Saimoe League in itself than it is to win the Anime Saimoe of Japan. That's the point of the automatic qualification system that we have here in ISML, and a proposition like this would diminish the storied success and value of obtaining even a place in a prestigious league like this.

There is a problem if you allow two votes per voter in a group where only one would advance from it. Just in case, let me clarify what I'm talking about.

Suppose you have 48 contestants, from whom you wish to select 12. You have formed 6 groups of 8 contestants. You will allow each voters to select up to 2 contestants per group( 1 voter 2 votes ). Top 2 girls from each group advance to the main round.

If you wish to have only 1 girl advance from each group, I don't think it is fair that each voter chooses up to 2, for this may allow the girl who might be chosen by the most people as their 2nd choice to advance over a girl who is the 1st choice to most number of voters. I think you should all ways keep the number of votes per voters smaller or equal to number of girls who will advance. So if you really want 12 girls from pool of 48 and want only one girl to advance from each group, this would mean forming 12 groups of 4 contestants, and I think you should allow each voter to select just ONE girl from each group, not two. If you think 12 groups is too large for preliminary, then go with 8 groups of 6 and allow 8 to advance for that round, or go with 6 groups of 8 and allow 6 to advance for that round.

So, now, what would be the format I would have preferred for the nomination and prelim? Assuming we need 27 like this year, here is what I think would have been the best.

1. Nomination.

Current system of selecting 48 is fine, for many reasons. Leave it as it is.

2. preliminary round 1

Form 6 groups of 8 contestants. Allow each voters to select up to 2 girls per group. Let the top 2 advance from each group, so 12 will enter the regular season from here, likely as the 4th tier, and 36 will go to prelim round 2

3. Prelim round 2

Form 6 groups of 6 contestants. Other wise 1 voter 2 votes, 2 advance per group format which is same as round 1. No need to make much change between round 1 and round 2. This will lessen any confusion as well. 12 will enter the regular season from here as 5th tier, 24 left for the final 3 spot.

4. Final Prelim

Put all the remaining characters into one group. Let each voters choose up to 3 girls. The top 3 girls in receiving votes will advance to the regular round. This will probably will select the best 3 girls from the remaining 24.

Now, I don't mind if everything I said above is ignored if and only if when only 1 girl is chosen from a group, voters can vote for only 1 girl from the group, not 2.

[Sonae]

Originally Posted by Sonae

Okay, I looked through my album. There is a lot of good C.C. official art that I have. I have barely any Anya and like no good Kallen. So here's some I think may be good. All the C.C. ones won't be here.

Spoiler:

There's another Anya one but I need to check the address

Did no one notice my post?

[Juice[Lemon]]

Originally Posted by wontaek

[. . .]

So, now, what would be the format I would have preferred for the nomination and prelim? Assuming we need 27 like this year, here is what I think would have been the best.

1. Nomination.

Current system of selecting 48 is fine, for many reasons. Leave it as it is.

2. preliminary round 1

Form 6 groups of 8 contestants. Allow each voters to select up to 2 girls per group. Let the top 2 advance from each group, so 12 will enter the regular season from here, likely as the 4th tier, and 36 will go to prelim round 2

3. Prelim round 2

Form 6 groups of 6 contestants. Other wise 1 voter 2 votes, 2 advance per group format which is same as round 1. No need to make much change between round 1 and round 2. This will lessen any confusion as well. 12 will enter the regular season from here as 5th tier, 24 left for the final 3 spot.

4. Final Prelim

Put all the remaining characters into one group. Let each voters choose up to 3 girls. The top 3 girls in receiving votes will advance to the regular round. This will probably will select the best 3 girls from the remaining 24.

Now, I don't mind if everything I said above is ignored if and only if when only 1 girl is chosen from a group, voters can vote for only 1 girl from the group, not 2.

I agree with 1; I agree with 2 and 4 with slight modifications; I disagree with 3 (Redundancy/Time)

Originally Posted by Sonae

Did no one notice my post?

I did, but I had nothing to add to my previous post on Code Geass Charas.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by wontaek

Now, I don't mind if everything I said above is ignored if and only if when only 1 girl is chosen from a group, voters can vote for only 1 girl from the group, not 2.

Well, my actual preferred preference is one vote per group, not two votes per group, so if it really is an issue, then we'll stick with one.

Originally Posted by Sonae

Did no one notice my post?

Didn't watch Code Geass as of this moment.

[Sonae]

I wasn't posting for the sake of posting. I was posting pictures that could be used as better pictures of them on the site.

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by Sonae

I wasn't posting for the sake of posting. I was posting pictures that could be used as better pictures of them on the site.

Eh, instead of jumbling all the posts together in a single thread and being confused, there's a forum for you to request picture changes (our official ISML forum), so you could post there.

[Ithekro]

How many Mikos or objects of worship do we have in this tournament anyway?

[Mushi]

Hmmm... from just a quick look...

Miko
Rika
Reimu
Index?

Deities
Hanyuu
Horo
Nagi

Some would probably want to include Haruhi in the deity section, but I've always wondered about that since she isn't even aware of her own true nature.

[Ithekro]

She might be a deity, but in story, as far as I can tell, no one worships her.

Kagami and Tsukasa are also Miko.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

She might be a deity, but in story, as far as I can tell, no one worships her.

Kagami and Tsukasa are also Miko.

Who needs a story for worship, when you have a legion of devoted fanbois?

[Ithekro]

The list for worship gets too long if one expand it to fanboy-isms...and would hold at least half of the girls in this tournament on its roster. Might as well stay with in story for the shorter lists.

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Kagami and Tsukasa are also Miko.

I'm sorry to say I only vaguely remember that. Was it something they just dressed up for once, or is it part of a family tradition type thing?

[Marina]

Originally Posted by Mushi

I'm sorry to say I only vaguely remember that. Was it something they just dressed up for once, or is it part of a family tradition type thing?

I'm pretty sure it's in the family since they live there at the shrine, right?
news blurb

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by Marina

I'm pretty sure it's in the family since they live there at the shrine, right?
news blurb

Oh, man... I need to watch L*S again.

[Ithekro]

A father living with four shrine maiden daughters and "Belldandy" as his wife.....

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

A father living with four shrine maiden daughters and "Belldandy" as his wife.....

Sounds like good ingredients for a mini-series.