Why does this forum still exist?

[False Dawn]

Let's face it, no fansubbers really use it any more and anything that does appear that might draw out some fansubbers into discussion gets locked or deleted before it has any time to flourish into anything worthwhile. So, what is the point of this forum? I call on the Animesuki mods to just delete it and have done with it, instead of choking and strangling everything and everyone that sets foot in it.

It may surprise the Animesuki mods but fansubbing does involve clashes and conflict and exchanges of ideas - none of which can be aired in here. So why have a fansubbers forum if you're not going to embrace the fansubbers?

To illustrate my point, the topic started by Kokujin-kun was a topic about fansub groups (well, CR and rippers) which is exactly what the forum description says this forum is about. So why has it been locked on two separate occasions?

[cyth]

It contains lots of useful information and guides by knowledgeable people. I'd say that's reason enough.

[Quarkboy]

FD has a point though.

This forum used to be a lively place for debate and discussion and the occasional helpful and informative thread.

At this point it is nothing more than a increasingly outdated monument to a legacy.
It's testament to the changed nature of what is called fansubbing today.

[NightWish]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

Let's face it, no fansubbers really use it any more and anything that does appear that might draw out some fansubbers into discussion gets locked or deleted before it has any time to flourish into anything worthwhile.

Our intention isn't to stifle discussion that will flourish into something worthwhile. If we close or delete something it is because we think it will do the exact opposite. Doesn't mean we're always correct in this belief. We're not perfect; if you strongly disagree and can justify why you disagree, your opinion will be heard, preferably in private but the feed back forum is also set aside for this purpose.

Originally Posted by False Dawn

So, what is the point of this forum? I call on the Animesuki mods to just delete it and have done with it, instead of choking and strangling everything and everyone that sets foot in it.

The point hasn't changed, but if the community no longer finds it useful they're completely at liberty to not use it.

Originally Posted by False Dawn

It may surprise the Animesuki mods but fansubbing does involve clashes and conflict and exchanges of ideas - none of which can be aired in here. So why have a fansubbers forum if you're not going to embrace the fansubbers?

It doesn't surprise me. Robust disagreement is fine provided it is civil and within the bounds of our rules. I can't answer your question. I guess I'm just not seeing the current state from the same perspective you are. Admittedly I don't watch this forum very closely, so if I'm missing something feel free to enlighten me. Perhaps that is part of the problem. The parts of the forum that have the most "problems" (however you wish to interpret that) are those that have least staff investment. I've seen it many time in the series specific forums. When we don't have an active representatives on the staff or closely connected to the staff, it is inevitable that we end up some what removed / detached. Best way to work with this is to drop us a note.

Originally Posted by False Dawn

To illustrate my point, the topic started by Kokujin-kun was a topic about fansub groups (well, CR and rippers) which is exactly what the forum description says this forum is about. So why has it been locked on two separate occasions?

I don't know about the earlier occasion, I'd have to look into it, but the most recent thread was closed because I misread the situation from the responses and drew, perhaps hasty, conclusions. I wanted to avoid more retorts and figured that Quarkboy's post was probably a good place to cut it. Mea culpa. Illustration noted.

As if to make your point even stronger Quarkboy even decided that his post was wrong in the context and needed to be deleted.

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

At this point it is nothing more than a increasingly outdated monument to a legacy.
It's testament to the changed nature of what is called fansubbing today.

So it does still serve a purpose then ...

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

Let's face it, no fansubbers really use it any more and anything that does appear that might draw out some fansubbers into discussion gets locked or deleted before it has any time to flourish into anything worthwhile.

What? This subforum is by far the least moderated and most troll-friendly one on asuki; you can basically shitpost as much as you want to in here these days. There are multiple posts made in the last few months that basically amount to "get out and stop posting", with no reaction from the mods. If you had done that in 2005 (or, hell, even in 2008) you'd have gotten xris'd within a few hours. If you do it in any of the other subforums (particularly the anime ones) today, you also get smacked within a few hours. You have to resort to subtle passive-aggressive posts or odd places that nobody looks at very closely (like thread tags or negreps) if you want to get anything done around those parts.

Note that I don't think the lack of moderation is a bad thing. Since there's no real technical challenge to fansubbing anymore (all tools are easy to find, well documented and easy to use) basically the only interesting thing left to do around here is for fansubbers to troll each other and say nasty things to the poor newbie fools who think it's a good idea to get into fansubbing (discouraging them from fansubbing is for their own good and should not be hampered by things like moderation). Oh, and the desperate and datelessclassifieds thread, I guess.

Then again, everyone who is still actively fansubbing seems to be either a) old bitter trolls, or b) literally twelve years old, and the old bitter trolls only talk to each other and the twelve-year-olds only hurf a durf on 4chan and IRC, there's not really anybody around here to troll anymore, except the occasional stupid newbie. So the problem isn't really the moderation, it's that nobody is posting.

Originally Posted by False Dawn

To illustrate my point, the topic started by Kokujin-kun was a topic about fansub groups (well, CR and rippers) which is exactly what the forum description says this forum is about. So why has it been locked on two separate occasions?

because it was (and is) a dumb fucking thread
it wasn't even trollable in a funny way, and what is the point of a thread that is so boring and so dumb that you can't even troll it?

[False Dawn]

Because it exists?

Hm, I dunno, I'm probably being nostalgic for the days when you could come in here and read something worth reading (like your walls of text, Fluffy) and misdirecting my frustration on there being nothing new in here on a questionable mod decision.

But I wonder why there isn't any fansubber chat in forums any more. I agree that the ease of programs like Aegisub has taken a lot of the challenge out of the technical side of fansubbing, but surely there are still some debates we can have? I mean, we all (more or less) enjoy fansubbing or else we wouldn't fansub, right? I don't understand why there isn't more discussion on the various intricacies of something we all (pretend to) enjoy.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

I don't understand why there isn't more discussion on the various intricacies of something we all (pretend to) enjoy.

I think you just answered your own question.

The reason is because hardly anyone enjoys fansubbing anymore.
Now of course the question is: Why? What happened that made people stop enjoying it?

And there is where one can have a true debate.

[False Dawn]

Why do we still do it if we don't enjoy it then? Surely there's no e-peen left in it... and yet, groups are still releasing stuff.

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

But I wonder why there isn't any fansubber chat in forums any more. I agree that the ease of programs like Aegisub has taken a lot of the challenge out of the technical side of fansubbing, but surely there are still some debates we can have? I mean, we all (more or less) enjoy fansubbing or else we wouldn't fansub, right? I don't understand why there isn't more discussion on the various intricacies of something we all (pretend to) enjoy.

People realized (at least subconsciously) that in this day and age, trying to have a serious debate on the internet about something like fansubbing is completely fucking pointless except if done only for trolling purposes, and if you want to troll people it's a lot easier to just go to /a/ and start a shitstorm there. Also, as I said, the only ones left are old bitter trolls (not interested in debating their opinion with anyone because it's extremely firmly entrenched and they just laugh at anyone who disagrees) and twelve-year-olds (not interested in debating because they're twelve years old).

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

The reason is because hardly anyone enjoys fansubbing anymore.
Now of course the question is: Why? What happened that made people stop enjoying it?

Fansubbing has always been shit, but I don't think that more people hate it now than in the past (relatively speaking). It's just that in this postironic era it's finally socially accepted to say it, and since the new fansubbers (who haven't realized that fansubbing sucks yet) aren't posting anymore, the old bitter trolls make it seem like they're the only ones left.

Originally Posted by False Dawn

Why do we still do it if we don't enjoy it then? Surely there's no e-peen left in it... and yet, groups are still releasing stuff.

Personally I'm in because cool people I enjoy hanging out with are doing it, it occasionally creates amusing drama, and it takes very little of my time. Also, Internet Fame. You might not get it for fansubbing anymore, but there are other, related, ways.

[Kokujin-kun]

Originally Posted by TheFluff

because it was (and is) a dumb fucking thread
it wasn't even trollable in a funny way, and what is the point of a thread that is so boring and so dumb that you can't even troll it?

^This.

Originally Posted by False Dawn

To illustrate my point, the topic started by Kokujin-kun was a topic about fansub groups (well, CR and rippers) which is exactly what the forum description says this forum is about. So why has it been locked on two separate occasions?

Yeah, I could have gone with another CR bashing thread, but, stupid or not, I did see how it could have been a brilliant troll. Of course if CR actually took up that practice they will suffer from credibility issues, but I still like the idea of CR rip groups releasing wrong versions of an episode while paying customers (who see the episode later) will be able to see the right versions. Of course, I'm probably not too adept at meta anyways, which is why my post got the response it elicited.

[Gomenasai]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

Let's face it, no fansubbers really use it any more and anything that does appear that might draw out some fansubbers into discussion gets locked or deleted before it has any time to flourish into anything worthwhile. So, what is the point of this forum? I call on the Animesuki mods to just delete it and have done with it, instead of choking and strangling everything and everyone that sets foot in it.

It may surprise the Animesuki mods but fansubbing does involve clashes and conflict and exchanges of ideas - none of which can be aired in here. So why have a fansubbers forum if you're not going to embrace the fansubbers?

To illustrate my point, the topic started by Kokujin-kun was a topic about fansub groups (well, CR and rippers) which is exactly what the forum description says this forum is about. So why has it been locked on two separate occasions?

I have to agree, as somebody who made my account a long time ago, and had been a lurker since mid-late 04, I remember how much fansub traffic this place used to get, all the competitions, ect. None of it made much sense to me, but I could see they were all having fun contributing to their community and being very productive.

Now it almost seems as if fansubbers, or whats usually now called rippers, are a plague now that CR went legit with their 'drive through subs'. We aren't getting the old days back guys. What was fine and dandy 5 years ago is now not really supported or encouraged anymore.

I suppose the site is useful for talking about anime, and I have noticed the community here is for the most part more mature than places like crunchyroll. I would hate to see the site go, I visited this site before I even knew CR existed, and I lurked this sight before I even discovered youtube back in 05, and found the wonders of 'streaming anime'. No joke, I used this site for bittorrenting batch files of anime like the first 100 episodes of naruto, and gundam seed destiny before I even knew what streaming was. So I suppose I like this site for nostalgia reasons, and as Quarkboy said, it is a testament to how much the fansub atmosphere has changed, for better or for worse.

[Meri]

People are fansubbing because they like it I suppose
If you wouldn't like it you basicly wouldn't bother

Hanging out with the people on irc is no longer a real reason
Most channels on irc are dead anyway

If you're looking for a forum to discuss anime, animesuki isn't really the first place that comes to mind either

I think people just loose interest in fansubbing because it isn't really worthwhile
Definitely not with all the speed subs. These days speed > quality

Fans tend to watch those speed subs
And not everyone that watches anime knows what fansubbing is

Smaller groups that make real quality subs don't get popular anymore

So yeah pick a reason...

The reason I'm still fansubbing is because I like it
I'd love to be a translator (profession) one day myself
My love for anime is a big help as well
And just creating something permanent by putting your heart into it
Even though there is no big reward
I just like the compliments of the small amount of fans we have

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by Meri

Hanging out with the people on irc is no longer a real reason
Most channels on irc are dead anyway

I think you're doing it wrong.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

Why do we still do it if we don't enjoy it then? Surely there's no e-peen left in it... and yet, groups are still releasing stuff.

If I'm reading this correctly (and remembering correctly) there was this 'golden period' in fansubbing from around 2002 ish-2006 ish (note, estimate) that's sunk its glory days claws into those who were part of the scene back in the day. It's peeps from that period that seem to be the ones most disillusioned or 'burnt out' from it all. No spark or zest for fansubbing anymore.

I hopped on just after all that faded, on the eve of mass streaming on youtube (before google snagged it) and people creating 'get instanz anime nao!' streaming sites every 2 secs, so I still do it whenever I can.
(If life quits screwing me over once in a while)

Reasons would echo Meri's post:

The reason I'm still fansubbing is because I like it
I'd love to be a translator (profession) one day myself <-- check
My love for anime is a big help as well <-- check
And just creating something permanent by putting your heart into it, even though there is no big reward <-- check
I just like the compliments of the small amount of fans we have <--check

Just doing it for the sake of doing so cause we don't expect greatness from it, is enough.
As for discussion here, I'm anti-trolling for most part (short of someone being arrogant or just plain stupid enough first to warrant a smackdown).

So go figure if someone wants to write something positive, without the drama, insults or rudeness in the fansub forums on Asuki here, they get neg-repped or insulted to hell (probably from that group TheFluff mentioned: aged 12 or 'totally bitter') and it potentially turns into a flame war (cue Xris).
Waste of energy in one's life at the end of the day, I'd rather just chill on IRC with peeps I get on with and discuss/relax there.

And FD, you can always try to catch me online if you feel like another long natter

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Mystique

If I'm reading this correctly (and remembering correctly) there was this 'golden period' in fansubbing from around 2002 ish-2006 ish (note, estimate) that's sunk its glory days claws into those who were part of the scene back in the day. It's peeps from that period that seem to be the ones most disillusioned or 'burnt out' from it all. No spark or zest for fansubbing anymore.

It could be. Things were very different back then.

I remember first getting into fansubs around 2001-2002. Back then BitTorrent was a new file distribution method that a few groups were testing out, but IRC was the place to go for new releases (and even some older ones). The IRC channels were much larger than they are now. The size of the channels was awe-inspiring, in some ways. Anime wasn't mainstream at that point, so it was a really nice feeling to log in and see hundreds of other fans gathered in these centralized locations.

The community feel was totally different. Random fans would volunteer their bandwidth by running file servers, or "fserves" as we called them. Channel operators would occasionally scan for fserves, and any running fserves would be granted a voice within the channel (a nice little token of recognition). Accessing an fserve was like navigating an FTP server through a messaging console, as you would be going through their shared directories and directing the server through a private message window. Releases in channels were usually accompanied by a bit of fanfare - I saw a few channels that would stop request all fserve activity to stop, and then perform a countdown to the release of a new episode. People were appreciative and offered words of thanks and praise to the fansubbers.

BitTorrent changed that. As BitTorrent grew popular, people had less of a reason to use IRC and visit the fansub group channels. Whereas IRC channel size had once been an indicator of a group's popularity, fansubbers had to get used to fewer people and less active channels, looking instead at torrent tracker statistics to get a sense of how many people were viewing their work. That caused a bit of a disconnect between the fansubbers and the viewers.

Worse, the fserves began to disappear. Perhaps it was because they had less of a reason to stick around IRC; perhaps it was because they were redirecting their bandwidth toward seeding torrents; perhaps it was because of the appearance of XDCC bots. I've always felt that the XDCC bots had far less of a personal feel than the fserves did. Usually run by a person with access to high-bandwidth servers, nobody can deny that the XDCC bots were a more efficient method of file distribution.

In my mind, the community feel changed from being an environment where everyone was giving something and trying to contribute what ever they could so that others could enjoy the shows, to something where people just grab what they need with little regard or thought to others in the community. I really don't know what motivates people to enter fansubbing today. When I was a teenager entering those IRC channels, the community feel drew me in. I set up an fserve with my sluggish internet connection to try and give back, and when I entered college and gained access to a very fast connection I was invited into the fansubbing scene (and happily accepted). Being a fansubber was the pinnacle of the community - it was giving back to the community in the ultimate manner. The ideas of "glory" and the joy of receiving praise kept a lot of us going, but for me, it was the community that got me into it in the first place.

I left the fansubbing scene in 2005. I visited here and there, but it just seemed to become less and less active with time. Admittedly I don't know what it's like now, but I can't imagine that the community is returning to it. Compared with how things used to be, fansubbing seems like it'd be a much more isolated type of work...

[Crontica]

All of the fabsubbing discussions have moved onto another website, i agree if they are going to filter and strangle any worthwhile debate that manifests they should just shutdown the subforum.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Crontica

All of the fabsubbing discussions have moved onto another website, i agree if they are going to filter and strangle any worthwhile debate that manifests they should just shutdown the subforum.

Just curious as to how do you think they're filtering or strangling any debate on here differently than the rest of the website which still thrives with much more sensitive topics than a lot of fansubbing related ones.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Mystique

Just curious as to how do you think they're filtering or strangling any debate on here differently than the rest of the website which still thrives with much more sensitive topics than a lot of fansubbing related ones.

1. The crap that is on the first page, looks more like a help forum than a debate forum.

2. Debates like these today surpass 5 pages within two days.

[hawkeye122]

Just the fact that anyone still uses this forum shows that it does, indeed, serve a purpose. Whether it be a place for discussion or a social network of people who enjoy anime/manga etc, etc, this website is out there filling a niche and there are people who appreciate that. If you no longer see a use for this site, then, as was stated above, you're a full liberty not to use it.

P.S. If this sounds angry or overly argumentative, I apologize. That was not my intended tone. I merely sought to provide my take on the answer to the OP's question in the wording that immediately sprung to mind.

[asunder]

Originally Posted by Crontica

All of the fabsubbing discussions have moved onto another website, i agree if they are going to filter and strangle any worthwhile debate that manifests they should just shutdown the subforum.

Even though this guy is now banned? I was curious as to where exactly 'all fansubbing discussions' have moved to.