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hamazura · 2013-11-05, 05:25

now, i've completed victory gundam
dont need to respond, just read my spoilerish review, complain and opinion about this frickin series

Spoiler for V:

final score 5/10 , even ZZ is far better than this... ah no, ZZ is very good, i should say even AGE is better than this...

people said this is darkest gundam series... nah, the director just throwing too many unnecesary death, nothing special except that.

sorry for my rant inside the spoiler

Michie_ · 2014-02-06, 05:17

After watching the first couple of episodes i have a hard time beliving this series takes place in the same timeline as F-91 and Unicorn. Shouldn't Seabook Arno still be alive at the time Victory takes place?

Fireminer · 2014-02-06, 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michie_

After watching the first couple of episodes i have a hard time beliving this series takes place in the same timeline as F-91 and Unicorn. Shouldn't Seabook Arno still be alive at the time Victory takes place?

He retired between the Crossbone mangas and married Cecily.

Michie_ · 2014-02-10, 21:46

After watching every episode it still feels this Gundam series should have been part of it's own universe. It doesn't make any sense people seems to have forgotten about events that only took place 70 years ago.

Also does anyone knows what happend with Uso's father? I may have missed it but i haven't seen him die.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2014-02-10, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michie_

After watching every episode it still feels this Gundam series should have been part of it's own universe. It doesn't make any sense people seems to have forgotten about events that only took place 70 years ago.

Also does anyone knows what happend with Uso's father? I may have missed it but i haven't seen him die.

You'd be surprised at how much history can be lost over even just 10-20 years, much less 74 years. You also can't forget that, officially (animated works), it's been 30 years since the last, isolated conflict (Gundam F91, UC 0123), which itself took place 27-30 years after the much isolated Second Neo Zeon War and the Larplace Incident (UC 0093-0096). A lot can happen during such periods of time like documents being lost/destroyed, participants/survivors dying, cover-ups, attempts to revise such history, and so on. It's usually just the biggest/most important icons that manage to retain themselves, like the "Gundam" name and its reputation.

As for Uso's father, if he didn't die when the Jeanne D'Arc's bridge was blasted, then he did die when it kamikaze'd into the Zanscare fleet in the last episode.

Ozuma · 2014-08-20, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiramuro

The Destiny plan is the most egregious example of a government trying to squash individual liberty that I have ever seen/heard in popular culture. It's perhaps even worse than 1984. In principle I found such concept to be the utterly digusting even more so than the act of committing genocide. For that reason my impression of Durandal after the revelation of his destiny plan is that he might be the most evil villian in gundam ever (Yes I am a libertarian). There wasn't even a hint of thought in my mind that Chairman Gil might be well intentioned.

Anyways I started this discourse only to see if could figure out the element in the ending of Victory that surprisingly reminded me of GSD's ending. It's clear that the common link is the idea of exterting complete control over individual lives that the villians in the two series tried to accomplish (I thought Zanscare would've went ahead with the Angel Halo no matter what the result of their conventional war was). Other UC villians might've tried conquer the world but their methods would resulted in a lesser form of control.

However you are right that it's implausible to compare any thing in Victory to GSD. I seriously doubt that Fukuda ever sat down and watched Victory since so few gundam fans do.

Speaking of Fukuda, I was told yesterday by a friend on IM that he contributed to the production of Victory Gundam. Anyone who watched Victory Gundam see the episodes where Uso disabled mobile suits in the first 1-20 eps? I find it hilarious that Kira relied on stock footage and had to wait till he got his upgraded Gundam to perform this feat. Uso masterfully executed this on other opponents.

By the way, having convo with friends on another forum and they think that because of how dark Victory Gundam that the suffering Uso underwent had no meaning in comparison with SEED's Kira.

Also those people who I'm discussing Victory with are saying that it along with Zeta are misogynist.

Rising Dragon · 2014-08-20, 16:07

Because of the bikini attack team scene, I'm guessing. Besides the fact that Japan has different values concerning the treatment of women than the West does, Tomino was going through a severe depression at the time and that translated into some really weird shit in his Gundam shows at times.

Also I don't see how Uso's suffering is any less meaningful than Kira's. Both of them went through some rough shit.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2014-08-20, 17:09

The men of Jupiter all the way back with Scirocco in Zeta Gundam, seem to have some sort of obsession with putting women on pedestals (or at least seeming to). You had Scirocco believing that it would be a woman who would rule the Earth Sphere, you had the Jupiter Empire itself having various female bits, including a (propagandized) female Newtype corp with their own female-looking MS (Dionna), and the Zanscare Empire, which was clearly being controlled from behind the scenes by Jupiter (remnants) having Queen Maria.

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2014-08-20, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozuma

Also those people who I'm discussing Victory with are saying that it along with Zeta are misogynist.

How can Zeta be misogynist when it has one of the most empowered female characters in all non-segregated anime that is Haman Karn? She is an ace pilot and high-level newtype that bested even Char Aznable. She has her own cool custom mobile suit (Qubeley). She’s also independent as hell since she is the leader of Neo Zeon and has shown no weaknesses to men aside from some fond past memories with Char. Unlike many female characters post 2000s, Hamn did not fall victim to any crass “fanservice” in that series (no revealing/skin-tight costume, bouncing boobs, ass-shots, awkward situations where she’s changing clothes, or any other mindless fanservice). Good luck trying to find strong, capable and independent female characters as prominent as Haman in today’s mecha series. Furthermore, many female characters in both Zeta & Victory hold prominent roles by being capable fighters and have actual impact in the story. Some of the female side-characters even has their own character arcs & motivation, something characters like Lunamaria & Meyrin can only dream of since they only ended up as love interests who follow & support their loved ones and nothing more when all is said and done.

Ozuma · 2014-08-20, 18:43

Did Victory Gundam's world-building make sense to your guys? Someone can't even make a valid argument and just concluded with "Look Victory is fucking stupid".

Also does the grim and gritty atmosphere of Victory Gundam make sense to you guys? People talking to believe that it's Tomino venting his depression on the show.

Ozuma · 2014-08-20, 18:49

lol okay now this has to take the cake from the discussion I'm having with people on Victory Gundam:

Quote:

Not to mention that being a mother is an inherently feminine role, and one that Tomino loves to throw his female characters into. It nearly ruined Fuala, and it does the same to Marbet. The fact that he consistently tries to push women into the mom role is proof of sexism and of binary thinking on gender.

Rising Dragon · 2014-08-20, 18:57

Again: Japan has different values when it comes to women than Westerners do.

Skye629 · 2014-08-20, 21:19

Since it appears this thread have been brought back from the dead recently, Ill throw in some thoughts on the series so far

Im about halfway through and already it seems more than half the named characters that have been introduced so far have been killed off. Tomino is really living up to that kill-em-all title

Lots of wtf moments, though these are more hilarious than anything else

The Zanscare suits, despite their weird designs, have really really grown on me. They are all so unique as opposed to the LM units, which are rather standard (though the Victory's and their part/equipment swapping is as awesome as ever)

Grunt pilots actually seem to count in this series (aside from the outclassed EF forces and their inadequate MS)

Not sure to think of the Queen and her ideals/followers/powers (though the Shakti being her daughter was a surprise for me)

Of all things they use a guillotine? ok.......I think an Iron Maiden would have had more shock value

Katejina is annoying.......

Cronicle is actually not bad at all, though he does not really seem like a Char clone. the masks purpose is weird/funny as hell too (he does not like to get dirty, and of all colors he chooses WHITE)

And so on and so on

Ozuma · 2014-08-20, 22:59

It feels like I'm talking to a dining room table. These arguments on Victory are so terrible they're hilarious:

Quote:

Victory is arbitrarily and stupidly dark. As Night pointed out, there's no reason why Uso's team is taking worse casualties than Amuro's did. The entire show is an exercise in Tomino working through his issues, and while that wouldn't be bad on its own, the end product is less a show than it is a study in a man off his medication. It might be useful to a psychology prof, but it isn't to me.

What is it about being the "lowest point of the UC" that is so hard to understand.

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2014-08-21, 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye629

Im about halfway through and already it seems more than half the named characters that have been introduced so far have been killed off. Tomino is really living up to that kill-em-all title

Lots of wtf moments, though these are more hilarious than anything else

Yep. Tomino’s depression at its best (or worst? Idk).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye629

Katejina is annoying.......

Oh, she’ll be more than annoying later on. People has been calling her "queen bitch" (or something similar) for a reason

.

Ozuma · 2014-08-21, 19:30

Do you guys also think Tomino took out his depression on the Shrike Team and their deaths were abnormal and hint at something? Also someone I spoke to said the baby heartbeat that Fuala heard from Marbet is a hint for her to "stay in the kitchen".

2013-11-05, 05:25	Link #181
hamazura whatever Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: wherever	now, i've completed victory gundam dont need to respond, just read my spoilerish review, complain and opinion about this frickin series Spoiler for V: first, this series is war between league ~~of legends~~ militia and zanscare.... zanscare was estabilished 20 FVKING YEARS ago by FVKING IDIOT queen... and their empire is SO FVKING BIG, hella, nonsense.... im confused... how!? i hate everything about zanscare.... many... i have to say MOST of the soldier are very kind, good people, and the queen is sooooooooo kind hearted people. yet what they said, what they think, everything is CONTRADICTING with what they actually do. go to every town in earth and destroy everything to the developtment of earth? for better mankind? while talking about peace and stuff? SURE! IDIOT! the queen, so idiot, foolish leader, how the hell in the first place she built zanscare? chronicle asher, what? you seems like good nice person but... you just standing there! you dont do anything. just being there and being annoying! katejina? lol she is a joke, zanscare loyalist, i cant comment on her because she is too foolish and she deserve that end! she killed odelo for no reason! there is one person i like in zanscare though, which is Tassilo Vago. he is evil.... ok, yes, he isnt saying about maderfaking peace stuff bullshit like the other, i like that. and he is the only one who had a courage to kidnap dat stupid queen, and overcome dat shithead kagatie. enough of zanscare crap.... now to the good side. Usso ebbing, "he just a poor boy from a poor family, spare him his life from this monstrosity...." actually this bohemian raphsody lyrics suit him well, no comment, he is just poor boy... Odelo, i like him, remind me of beecha somehow. he is good character after all, i like seeing him with elischa, but that evil girl katejina.... Other Reinforce.Jr crews dont give me too much impression but they're okay... i like oliver's leadership though.... too bad he died and last, SHRIKE TEAM! hey mr.director! whats the point bringin team full bunch of girls just to kill them! fuck you! the story is decent, not good, not bad, i think i will forget about this in about a month... i love Victory gundam design, especially V2AB which one of my fav in Gundam Extreme VS and G Generation. ah, and i dont even want to comment about shakti final score 5/10 , even ZZ is far better than this... ah no, ZZ is very good, i should say even AGE is better than this... people said this is darkest gundam series... nah, the director just throwing too many unnecesary death, nothing special except that. sorry for my rant inside the spoiler __________________

2014-08-20, 16:07	Link #187
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Because of the bikini attack team scene, I'm guessing. Besides the fact that Japan has different values concerning the treatment of women than the West does, Tomino was going through a severe depression at the time and that translated into some really weird shit in his Gundam shows at times. Also I don't see how Uso's suffering is any less meaningful than Kira's. Both of them went through some rough shit. __________________

2014-08-20, 17:09	Link #188
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply The men of Jupiter all the way back with Scirocco in Zeta Gundam, seem to have some sort of obsession with putting women on pedestals (or at least seeming to). You had Scirocco believing that it would be a woman who would rule the Earth Sphere, you had the Jupiter Empire itself having various female bits, including a (propagandized) female Newtype corp with their own female-looking MS (Dionna), and the Zanscare Empire, which was clearly being controlled from behind the scenes by Jupiter (remnants) having Queen Maria. __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2014-08-20, 18:57	Link #192
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Again: Japan has different values when it comes to women than Westerners do. __________________

2014-02-06, 05:17	Link #182
Michie_ Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009	After watching the first couple of episodes i have a hard time beliving this series takes place in the same timeline as F-91 and Unicorn. Shouldn't Seabook Arno still be alive at the time Victory takes place?

2014-02-10, 21:46	Link #184
Michie_ Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009	After watching every episode it still feels this Gundam series should have been part of it's own universe. It doesn't make any sense people seems to have forgotten about events that only took place 70 years ago. Also does anyone knows what happend with Uso's father? I may have missed it but i haven't seen him die.

2014-08-20, 18:43	Link #190
Ozuma Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011	Did Victory Gundam's world-building make sense to your guys? Someone can't even make a valid argument and just concluded with "Look Victory is fucking stupid". Also does the grim and gritty atmosphere of Victory Gundam make sense to you guys? People talking to believe that it's Tomino venting his depression on the show.

2014-08-20, 21:19	Link #193
Skye629 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Since it appears this thread have been brought back from the dead recently, Ill throw in some thoughts on the series so far Im about halfway through and already it seems more than half the named characters that have been introduced so far have been killed off. Tomino is really living up to that kill-em-all title Lots of wtf moments, though these are more hilarious than anything else The Zanscare suits, despite their weird designs, have really really grown on me. They are all so unique as opposed to the LM units, which are rather standard (though the Victory's and their part/equipment swapping is as awesome as ever) Grunt pilots actually seem to count in this series (aside from the outclassed EF forces and their inadequate MS) Not sure to think of the Queen and her ideals/followers/powers (though the Shakti being her daughter was a surprise for me) Of all things they use a guillotine? ok.......I think an Iron Maiden would have had more shock value Katejina is annoying....... Cronicle is actually not bad at all, though he does not really seem like a Char clone. the masks purpose is weird/funny as hell too (he does not like to get dirty, and of all colors he chooses WHITE) And so on and so on

2014-08-21, 19:30	Link #196
Ozuma Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011	Do you guys also think Tomino took out his depression on the Shrike Team and their deaths were abnormal and hint at something? Also someone I spoke to said the baby heartbeat that Fuala heard from Marbet is a hint for her to "stay in the kitchen".