AnimeSuki Forums

TJR · 2013-09-26, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-6000

I think the best news from this week's series of announcements is Valve's own OS. While I don't think it will fully replace Windows, I think it could make for a good "Emergency Exit" (at last for PC Gamers) if Microsoft moves in a direction that they (including myself) don't like. But also, Windows is notorious for being a bit of a System Resource hog.

From what's been suggested, Microsoft is pushing the WinRT runtime as its future, so performance should be better.

The problem for Valve is that the new vision for Windows is that of a closed platform (all WinRT apps certified by MS and sold through the Windows Store), which obviously cuts into the Steam business. Their solution is to push PC gamers onto Linux by promoting SteamOS as a superior alternative (working with Nvidia to maximize performance is a huge step). Simultaneously, the Steam Machines initiative helps them explore the console space, which also protects them in case the desktop market bottoms out.

Quote:

I believe Valve are just giving PC Gamers more options.

Ultimately, it's more about what's good for Valve business. However, I can understand their concern (they have little choice, really), and gamers would certainly benefit from the existence of an open platform.

T-6000 · 2013-09-27, 15:37

*gets up and instantly goes to laptop to see news of Valve's final announcement*

Aaaaaaaaand.............It's a control pad. DAMN, I thought it'd be a new game announcement! Oh well.

http://store.steampowered.com/living...eamController/

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2013-09-27, 18:13

The gamepad is consistent with SteamOS and Steambox; It is designed to bridge the gap so Console gamers can play PC games more comfortably. It doesn't offer anything to Mouse/Keyboard enthusiasts, but that's the point. The point is for people who spent their whole lives playing on a gamepad, to have a way to attempt PC gaming with a relatively familiar tool.

Valve is doing what no one else is doing; promoting PCs as a gaming platform. Because let's face it, Microsoft is not interested.

Flying Dagger · 2013-09-27, 19:36

Its not just MS, but whether or not Valve can convince the developers to jump ship. Its a bit of a chicken or the egg question - with a lot of politics and crap involved.

Console makers will do whatever they can to keep the ball in their hands. They have two key advantages: affordable standardized hardware, as well as decrease piracy.

steambox/the sticker valve gives out to partnered manufacturers would hopefully be enough to combat the first issue to a certain degree (there will always be graphic settings on PC games while the majority of it is absent on consoles). Steam has proven itself to be an effective content delivery system+a certain degree of DRM to combat the latter.

Out of the 3 announcements I am most interested in the controller. I can actually see that being used like a laptop touchpad (with more ease since the mouse buttons are more accessible).

Although we can already use the PS3 controllers on our PC for the longest time...

End of the day, Valve will have to pull every string they have got for this to work.

JagdPanther · 2013-09-27, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-6000

*gets up and instantly goes to laptop to see news of Valve's final announcement*

Aaaaaaaaand.............It's a control pad. DAMN, I thought it'd be a new game announcement! Oh well.

http://store.steampowered.com/living...eamController/

I keep imagining that an announcement is going to be released when no one is looking and people are going to go, "Wait, WTF!?"

0utf0xZer0 · 2013-09-27, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The gamepad is consistent with SteamOS and Steambox; It is designed to bridge the gap so Console gamers can play PC games more comfortably. It doesn't offer anything to Mouse/Keyboard enthusiasts, but that's the point. The point is for people who spent their whole lives playing on a gamepad, to have a way to attempt PC gaming with a relatively familiar tool.

I know what they say about it, but I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical about how well it will work.

Quote:

Valve is doing what no one else is doing; promoting PCs as a gaming platform. Because let's face it, Microsoft is not interested.

Given how well PC gaming has been doing the past few years, I'm not sure how much Microsoft's promotion is necessary. The big question has been whether Microsoft is willing to preserve the necessary underlying framework. Something I was actually more concerned about a year ago than now. I figure even a company with MS's momentum has to surrender to the reality that RT framework apps just aren't taking off at some point. (Unless they do - the company that brought us the netbook craze, Asus does have a $350 Windows 8 convertible in the pipeline.)

BTW, I have seen some pretty strong criticisms of the Steam Box program:

Quote:

So, now that we imagine that we know some facts, what does this all mean to gaming? As usual I’m tempted to give Valve a hard time for such a BS dog and pony show ahead of the Christmas buying season. They yanked everybody’s chains, they’ve got nothing to ship and it’s an extremely irresponsible thing to do declare if they’re not really committed to it because taking on the role of a gaming OS provider is a HUGE job and if they don’t follow through on their promise of doing a good job of ensuring that a huge range of crappy Linux driver configurations work together, they will finish the job Microsoft started on the PC game industry. They’ll kill it dead because the last bastion of dedicated PC gamers will be very disappointed after they buy a premium priced Linux game console only to discover that it’s a highly unstable unreliable gaming experience. So even if this was a cheap PR stunt, Valve has placed themselves in a position to do a lot of damage if they don’t really execute against the promise they just made. This is not the first time Valve has “launched” a half-hearted technology initiative that they didn’t really follow through on. That said… I’m actually pretty excited about this and not for the usual ”giddy gamer” reasons.

http://www.alexstjohn.com/WP/2013/09...eam-prophesys/

Harsh, but given Alex St. John's role in making Windows a successful gaming platform in the mid-90s after some early, high profile disasters on that front, I'm inclined to lend him an ear. Especially since he's often very critical of his former employer as well.

cors8 · 2013-09-28, 01:43

That control pad better be amazing for PC FPS games or Valve will have to segregate the population like consoles do.

0utf0xZer0 · 2013-09-28, 13:43

I've seen some people speculating on whether it'll be possible to make a PS4 into a Steambox... probably not given how Sony eventually killed Linux on PS3, would probably make for a decent hardware value at Sony's expense if possible though.

T-6000 · 2013-10-03, 15:08

Ever since the news of the SteamBox last week, a surprising number of people seem to believe that Valve are trying to compete with next generation consoles. In fact, some think Valve will crush next generation consoles with their Steamboxes. And I keep saying that Valve isn't trying to compete with the PS4 nor the Xbone. Believe me, if Valve had any real interest in competing with next generation consoles they would have held off on the announcement until Half-Life 3 and/or Left 4 Dead 3 were mostly done, then announce the upcoming Steamboxes and announce that said games will be Steambox exclusive. No, I believe that the Steamboxes (as well as the controllers) are there to give PC gamers more options, *NOT* to compete with next gen consoles.

But even though there were no game announcements, these "Leaked" reports (err....maybe I should just call them Rumors?

) do keep my hopes up that Valve will announce a new title in the near future.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=689145
http://www.bluesnews.com/s/145559/half-life-3-tmed

Flying Dagger · 2013-10-03, 21:41

There wouldn't be any steambox exclusives. Impractical. PC titles yes. PC exclusive yes. Steambox exclusive? Def not. You want your "steambox" to have the full functionality of a PC: and maybe even more if Valve throw in some added value: such as integrating the role of a wireless media server into the steambox and provide easy to use user interfaces on a Windows/Mac pc.

I want the steambox to be affordable computers that "plays like a console" but still remain as a PC - because the greatest weakness of a console is that it is just a PC which refuses to interact with anything other than media and games (or anything not digital signed).

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2013-10-03, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

There wouldn't be any steambox exclusives. Impractical. PC titles yes. PC exclusive yes. Steambox exclusive? Def not. You want your "steambox" to have the full functionality of a PC: and maybe even more if Valve throw in some added value: such as integrating the role of a wireless media server into the steambox and provide easy to use user interfaces on a Windows/Mac pc.

Yeah.
The only people who believe in Steambox Exclusives are people who don't understand PC gaming. Namely, those who live and die by consoles and think that Exclusives are the only things that matter.

You CAN'T have Steambox exclusives. It just doesn't work. A Steambox exclusive would be cracked and made to run on Windows 7 within 24 hours of release. That fact eludes those who never played on a PC. Customers will play what they want to play, you can't stop them.

Archer · 2013-10-04, 00:51

A SteamBox is to SteamOS what Nexus is to Android. It's just a machine that can run Steam's operating system, and thus doesn't necessarily have to conform to any one specific standard.

Heck, a SteamBox doesn't necessarily even need to be an actual dedicated piece of hardware. Your TV can be a Steambox if it can come shipped with a SteamOS. A tablet can be a SteamBox. People are getting to caught up with the whole "box" part to realize that the biggest deal is Steam being able to reach far more avenues with it's own independent operating system.

Dirty_Harry · 2013-10-04, 15:23

Steam Box specs

http://kotaku.com/valves-first-steam...ful-1441267520

Flying Dagger · 2013-10-04, 17:58

Quote:

The 300 prototype units will ship with the following components:
GPU: some units with NVidia Titan, some GTX780, some GTX760, and some GTX660
CPU: some boxes with Intel : i7-4770, some i5-4570, and some i3
RAM: 16GB DDR3-1600 (CPU), 3GB DDR5 (GPU)
Storage: 1TB/8GB Hybrid SSHD
Power Supply: Internal 450w 80Plus Gold
Dimensions: approx. 12 x 12.4 x 2.9 in high

Ok, I got a lot of beef with this.

1) This is too expensive. It will just make steambox another "Gaming PC" branding - this time produced by various assemblers. "Expensive hardware" is an important factor which has been pushing people away from PC gaming in the past (as a high end PC cost you a good $2k back in the days - These days $800 can get you an already decent one)

2) There are a lot of unneeded power:
- def no i7. older ivy bridge i5s already provide enough power.
- 16GB of ram is 8GB too many. This is especially true if SteamOS is written for games with minimal overhead (so memory requirement may be even less than Windows)

3) "Why Nvidia"?
I am neutral when it comes to GPU choices, but AMD's Mantle might be the "next big thing".

4) HDD choice.
A full 250GB SSD will greatly improve loading time. It is that once single hardware upgrade which even an amateur can tell the difference. SteamOS can have an optimizer daemon which archive "old games" (and other not-often-used files in games, such as the various cinematic movies) into the HDD while putting all the frequently used files onto the SSD. (so it would be "like" raid 0)

This is quite technologically possible since you install the games through Steam, and Valve can set hardware requirements.

Regular users will not notice this happening and will just think "wow, my steambox is ALWAYS fast".

5) The PSU can use a very minor boost. Throw in stuff like extra fans, another gpu, Hdd, all sorts of stuff and it might tax that 450w.

//

I am not a believe in their OS. Now I am losing faith in their hardware choices.

Tokkan · 2013-10-04, 19:03

Yeah, sure. Let's make a big fuss over a prototype, which was going to be the highest end anyway for optimization purposes, and completely forget there's going to be lower end models of Steam Machines anyway.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2013-10-04, 23:20

It seems everywhere, people just refuse to read the entire press release.

Flying Dagger · 2013-10-11, 17:12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI

Smoother than a plain controller, but still not up to performance of keyboard+mouse.
I am tired of seeing people fit games onto a controller. I chuckled as the engineer said "this allows you to play fps without autoaim".

The controller might be great for stuff like fighting games (which builds upon restricted controls) and driving games, but keyboard shortcuts and control of a mouse is just irreplaceable.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2013-10-11, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI

Smoother than a plain controller, but still not up to performance of keyboard+mouse.
I am tired of seeing people fit games onto a controller. I chuckled as the engineer said "this allows you to play fps without autoaim".

The controller might be great for stuff like fighting games (which builds upon restricted controls) and driving games, but keyboard shortcuts and control of a mouse is just irreplaceable.

It just has to be good enough. The controller is not after the M and K audience, but people who only use controllers. For people who only use controllers, the Valve controller would be a significant improvement on what they currently use.

saravis · 2013-10-13, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It just has to be good enough. The controller is not after the M and K audience, but people who only use controllers. For people who only use controllers, the Valve controller would be a significant improvement on what they currently use.

I'm not so sure its even that good. There's a reason why gamers don't use trackpads. Watch the Counterstrike section of that video and notice how much time he requires to take a shot on a non-moving non-hostile target. There's a serious disadvantage with having to continuously lift your thumb to reposition, something that he has to do constantly, something that you don't have to do with a controller stick.

T-6000 · 2013-11-05, 18:21

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/...es-for-steamos

I Figured as much, since it would be a bad move (IMHO, a least) if Valve made their next game a SteamOS exclusive. It would make sense if Valve planned on charging money for the SteamOS (It'll be free) and/or if the Steambox was to compete with next gen consoles (It's not, it's just to give PC Gamers more options).

2013-09-27, 18:13	Link #23
Vallen Chaos Valiant Logician and Romantic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Within my mind Age: 43	The gamepad is consistent with SteamOS and Steambox; It is designed to bridge the gap so Console gamers can play PC games more comfortably. It doesn't offer anything to Mouse/Keyboard enthusiasts, but that's the point. The point is for people who spent their whole lives playing on a gamepad, to have a way to attempt PC gaming with a relatively familiar tool. Valve is doing what no one else is doing; promoting PCs as a gaming platform. Because let's face it, Microsoft is not interested. __________________

2013-09-28, 13:43	Link #28
0utf0xZer0 Pretentious moe scholar Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Age: 37	I've seen some people speculating on whether it'll be possible to make a PS4 into a Steambox... probably not given how Sony eventually killed Linux on PS3, would probably make for a decent hardware value at Sony's expense if possible though. __________________ Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.

2013-10-04, 23:20	Link #36
Vallen Chaos Valiant Logician and Romantic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Within my mind Age: 43	It seems everywhere, people just refuse to read the entire press release. __________________

2013-09-27, 15:37	Link #22
T-6000 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012	gets up and instantly goes to laptop to see news of Valve's final announcement Aaaaaaaaand.............It's a control pad. DAMN, I thought it'd be a new game announcement! Oh well. http://store.steampowered.com/living...eamController/

2013-09-27, 19:36	Link #24
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	Its not just MS, but whether or not Valve can convince the developers to jump ship. Its a bit of a chicken or the egg question - with a lot of politics and crap involved. Console makers will do whatever they can to keep the ball in their hands. They have two key advantages: affordable standardized hardware, as well as decrease piracy. steambox/the sticker valve gives out to partnered manufacturers would hopefully be enough to combat the first issue to a certain degree (there will always be graphic settings on PC games while the majority of it is absent on consoles). Steam has proven itself to be an effective content delivery system+a certain degree of DRM to combat the latter. Out of the 3 announcements I am most interested in the controller. I can actually see that being used like a laptop touchpad (with more ease since the mouse buttons are more accessible). Although we can already use the PS3 controllers on our PC for the longest time... End of the day, Valve will have to pull every string they have got for this to work.

2013-09-28, 01:43	Link #27
cors8 Kuu-chan is hungry Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC	That control pad better be amazing for PC FPS games or Valve will have to segregate the population like consoles do.

2013-10-03, 15:08	Link #29
T-6000 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012	Ever since the news of the SteamBox last week, a surprising number of people seem to believe that Valve are trying to compete with next generation consoles. In fact, some think Valve will crush next generation consoles with their Steamboxes. And I keep saying that Valve isn't trying to compete with the PS4 nor the Xbone. Believe me, if Valve had any real interest in competing with next generation consoles they would have held off on the announcement until Half-Life 3 and/or Left 4 Dead 3 were mostly done, then announce the upcoming Steamboxes and announce that said games will be Steambox exclusive. No, I believe that the Steamboxes (as well as the controllers) are there to give PC gamers more options, NOT to compete with next gen consoles. But even though there were no game announcements, these "Leaked" reports (err....maybe I should just call them Rumors? ) do keep my hopes up that Valve will announce a new title in the near future. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=689145 http://www.bluesnews.com/s/145559/half-life-3-tmed

2013-10-03, 21:41	Link #30
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	There wouldn't be any steambox exclusives. Impractical. PC titles yes. PC exclusive yes. Steambox exclusive? Def not. You want your "steambox" to have the full functionality of a PC: and maybe even more if Valve throw in some added value: such as integrating the role of a wireless media server into the steambox and provide easy to use user interfaces on a Windows/Mac pc. I want the steambox to be affordable computers that "plays like a console" but still remain as a PC - because the greatest weakness of a console is that it is just a PC which refuses to interact with anything other than media and games (or anything not digital signed).

2013-10-04, 00:51	Link #32
Archer Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	A SteamBox is to SteamOS what Nexus is to Android. It's just a machine that can run Steam's operating system, and thus doesn't necessarily have to conform to any one specific standard. Heck, a SteamBox doesn't necessarily even need to be an actual dedicated piece of hardware. Your TV can be a Steambox if it can come shipped with a SteamOS. A tablet can be a SteamBox. People are getting to caught up with the whole "box" part to realize that the biggest deal is Steam being able to reach far more avenues with it's own independent operating system.

2013-10-04, 15:23	Link #33
Dirty_Harry Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Steam Box specs http://kotaku.com/valves-first-steam...ful-1441267520

2013-10-04, 19:03	Link #35
Tokkan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Age: 35	Yeah, sure. Let's make a big fuss over a prototype, which was going to be the highest end anyway for optimization purposes, and completely forget there's going to be lower end models of Steam Machines anyway.

2013-10-11, 17:12	Link #37
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI Smoother than a plain controller, but still not up to performance of keyboard+mouse. I am tired of seeing people fit games onto a controller. I chuckled as the engineer said "this allows you to play fps without autoaim". The controller might be great for stuff like fighting games (which builds upon restricted controls) and driving games, but keyboard shortcuts and control of a mouse is just irreplaceable.

2013-11-05, 18:21	Link #40
T-6000 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012	http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/...es-for-steamos I Figured as much, since it would be a bad move (IMHO, a least) if Valve made their next game a SteamOS exclusive. It would make sense if Valve planned on charging money for the SteamOS (It'll be free) and/or if the Steambox was to compete with next gen consoles (It's not, it's just to give PC Gamers more options).