Equality of Men and Women?

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by _Sin_

I wonder why feminists exist then, if noone wants to change the status.

Though, it is true that there was no big movement since the 60s...


...

I sometimes wonder too. Do they have too much time or something? I mean, most other females don't care about what some of the more extremist like feminists tell and want to force them to do. If a woman wants to be labourer, well she can do whatever she likes. I don't see a big problem today. Every gender has its own advantages. And I am sure both sides know how to use these advantages.
Only very few people want to change everything. And only few people still defend the matriarchy.
With the different genders equality never will be, because differences are there to complement one another. There is no sense to force total equality upon the differences, that will only weaken the matter.

edit: when I say this, I mean the region here, not every place on earth.

[Asura]

I think the problem of equality is still around between both genders.

Saturn (USA), an automobile brand name, sold their cars at fixed prices mainly to invite more female buyers because they thought women know nothing about cars, while in fact, some of them do (a minority, I know).

Subaru USA, targets women buyers with their all wheel drive vehicles offering giving them the sense of security. Yes, the sense of security is there, but what does this implies? Women cannot drive as well as men? Or is it because Women are actually earning more than men do nowadays?

Insurance companies would usually offer lower premiums to women. Why? Do they still consider women as minorities.

Looking @ several magazines in the book store... how come I still see a majority of "Parenting" magazines displaying a picture of (presumably) a mother with her kids? Where's the dad? The same pretty much applies to some "house keeping" magazines as well.. why can't the dad be portrayed parenting his kids more often? Why can't the dad be interested in doing house keeping?

And as a male (born with the tea-pot spout), I often wonder, how come only adults magazines portrays bare chested pictures of women when bare chested pictures of men are shown in almost every single advertisements? Are breasts really that off limit? Bah! the day you're born, you're touching them already, indeed, you also sucks on them (no offense to those bottle-fed because certain problems)...

o well, life goes on..

[hobobaggins]

so is this a yes/ no thread?

a does it exist thread?

a should it exist thread?

a is this helpful thread?

well.

i think it does exist.

i think it shouldnt exist.

of course equality shouldnt exist.



The problem i see with equality is, that the females who want it (i only know a few, and no guys) dont practice what they preach.

we were moving set pieces around for a theater performance, and i requested (insert name here)'s help. she paused her other conversation momentarily, said "no, guys should do that" and resumed her lecture/speech/rant about equality.

since i have mentioned this, she has been better in that respect... ... but still... ... not that encouraging to the rest of us.

[Access]

Originally Posted by hobobaggins

we were moving set pieces around for a theater performance, and i requested (insert name here)'s help. she paused her other conversation momentarily, said "no, guys should do that" and resumed her lecture/speech/rant about equality.

since i have mentioned this, she has been better in that respect... ... but still... ... not that encouraging to the rest of us.

There's all types of people in the world, you can't judge the many by the actions of a few; there's pleanty of stuff like that going on from both sides.

[hobobaggins]

Originally Posted by Access

There's all types of people in the world, you can't judge the many by the actions of a few; there's pleanty of stuff like that going on from both sides.

that is true. that is why i presented a specific example about a specific individual

[haunterex]

men and women should be treated equally, but if u follow traditional christianity way of thinking and living, it's a different story then.

[Joe Dalton]

ugh... I have a feeling that what im about 2 say wont be accepted... but im bored anyway.

Men and women are different in many aspects.
Men can focus better thus can do a specific job better
Women can perform better when multi tasking... though both are as important this leads 2 the fact that men will usualy have the highest jobs
Women have children (ofcourse some dont want 2 or cant) after that they will never be able 2 handle a full time job unless they stick their kids into some daycare and thus denying their kids real parenting(yes this will make a difference for the child in his later years)

this is not a mans biased opinion and im not saying men and women are not equal im saying they are different... in adition what fuckface decided that housework is not equaly important because I want 2 shoot that prick in the face for introducing a whole new culture of kids being taught by television rather then by their parrents... and now people whine that kids these days have no backbone... [insert some hot flames]

[nak]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalton

ugh... I have a feeling that what im about 2 say wont be accepted... but im bored anyway.

Men and women are different in many aspects.
Men can focus better thus can do a specific job better
Women can perform better when multi tasking... though both are as important this leads 2 the fact that men will usualy have the highest jobs
Women have children (ofcourse some dont want 2 or cant) after that they will never be able 2 handle a full time job unless they stick their kids into some daycare and thus denying their kids real parenting(yes this will make a difference for the child in his later years)

this is not a mans biased opinion and im not saying men and women are not equal im saying they are different... in adition what fuckface decided that housework is not equaly important because I want 2 shoot that prick in the face for introducing a whole new culture of kids being taught by television rather then by their parrents... and now people whine that kids these days have no backbone... [insert some hot flames]

In taking what you say into consideration -- I think in the end, men and women's attributes and disadvantages equal out eventually.

[dragonz20]

As hobobaggins stated, just because women preach it doesn't mean that they practice it.

Just because they act and talk about equality doesn't even really mean that they don't want their cake and eat it too... For example, I don't know of any women who doesn't desire the man to pay on a first date. I know friends (very independent gals who make good money) tell me that if the guy doesn't totally pay on the first date, then there is literally no hope for a 2nd date. Granted it's only the first date and these girls would probably migrate to a "I pay one and you pay the next one or 50/50" method depending on where the relationship goes but is it fair for the guy to be expected to pay for the first date every time? It's great if you're a girl and you're looking for a guy... It's a free night out for every first date but pity the guy who's looking!...

anyway, yes.. I am all for equality but there are small details that eventually stand out that make us equal for some things but unequal in others.

Originally Posted by Nak

I think in the end, men and women's attributes and disadvantages equal out eventually.

Well said!

[_Sin_]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalton

Women have children (ofcourse some dont want 2 or cant) after that they will never be able 2 handle a full time job unless they stick their kids into some daycare and thus denying their kids real parenting(yes this will make a difference for the child in his later years)

It is funny that most of us think that the woman has to take care of the children, although it could be the men who parents the children...

Originally Posted by Nak

I think in the end, men and women's attributes and disadvantages equal out eventually.

And here I was thinking that women feel inferior - must have been the hardcore feminists who made me think that^^

[Joe Dalton]

hmmmm not really
women and men have different attitudes towards their children and treat them differently thus its not strange that people assume that the women will will take care of the child
Not 2 mention its better for the child for different reasons

[Cammie]

Originally Posted by dragonz20

As hobobaggins stated, just because women preach it doesn't mean that they practice it.

Just because they act and talk about equality doesn't even really mean that they don't want their cake and eat it too... For example, I don't know of any women who doesn't desire the man to pay on a first date. I know friends (very independent gals who make good money) tell me that if the guy doesn't totally pay on the first date, then there is literally no hope for a 2nd date. Granted it's only the first date and these girls would probably migrate to a "I pay one and you pay the next one or 50/50" method depending on where the relationship goes but is it fair for the guy to be expected to pay for the first date every time? It's great if you're a girl and you're looking for a guy... It's a free night out for every first date but pity the guy who's looking!...

anyway, yes.. I am all for equality but there are small details that eventually stand out that make us equal for some things but unequal in others.




Well said!

What kind of Harry Carey act are you pulling here? You just contradicted yourself! Reread your post! shall I explain?

[Baba]

I wont try to post an answer to the question that's been asked but instead I would like to bring a few clarification to what exactly we are discussing.

I think before this debate goes any further it is necessary for people to reach a common ground on what is 'exaclty' the equality betwwen men and women. It is indeed a difficult problem to answer this question, at least as much as knowing if this equality has been reached or not, as you'll get about as many definitions of this equality as you get people.

It has been proven that men and women defer significantly in a biological way and in the way they thinkl(they don't activate the same brain zone for the same tasks and don't get the same hormone levels in similar situation (not just sexual)....). Thus, they tend to chose different path in life and not to attach interest to the same things. It is then dificult to say, if the absence of women in a certain domain is due, to a lack of women having interests in this, to cultural reasons that turn them away for it, or because some bad treatment is made of them (moral or physical, or whatever...)

So when can you say you've reached equality? The answer that was given of "When you won't need to ask the question anymore" is in my opinion a bad one. That is, because you will always find people blaming their condition on something and unsatisfied about their lot. I'm not saying there isn't anything to complain for most of the time, but just because they ARE complaining doesn't mean anything.
Moreover, the problem is different in almost evry country depending on both it's culture and it's institution, so asking the question in such a general way just can't get a "yes or no" answer.

Then there are some things that will never change (at least not for a long long time), such as the fact that men are, in a general sort of way, stronger than women and this will inevitably lead some men (and some women) that this gives men a superiority over women, especially so in less advanced cultures. Then it all become a matter of individuals....

[Serendipity]

Well, I agree with the majority of the above.

Though there a lot of places in the world that are very cruel to women, in that they treat them like slaves and don't give them proper jobs and so on, or make them wear full clothing etc., there are still places that are good to women.

There are a lot of companies that offer equal opportunity for workers, regardless of age, race, gender, etc. I work for BHP Billiton Iron Ore, which is an immense company with branches all over the world. This company offers equal opportunity and doesn't deduct from some of the employees' pay just because they are female (which is good for me!!). However, I have noticed that they have to have their "quota". For example, they need to have a certain amount of Aboriginal employees and women in certain fields like Electrical and mechanical engineering. (It's the same for men in Clerical positions as well...they try to get one bloke per year or so for clerical traineeships...)

Things seem to have become a lot more even than they were 50 years ago, so I'm not complaining!


Just my two bob...

[dragonz20]

Originally Posted by Cammie

What kind of Harry Carey act are you pulling here? You just contradicted yourself! Reread your post! shall I explain?

Explain how I am contradicting myself please...

[HoboGod]

equal rights is a joke. women want to be treated better than men.
In sports, I don't see many women complaining that they want heavier shot puts, longer tracks, and to fight against men in the same professional boxing leage. I also don't see women complaining that all women should be required to join the draft here in america.

men get the handicaps women don't. women have less taboo in our society when it comes to fashion. to say that women are discriminated against in the workplace is tough shit... men get discriminated against too in female dominated careers. if there is something you want, work hard for it. if it means you gotta work harder than somebody else in the same position, then that's life. as the famous saying goes "Life's a bitch, and then you die."

i said this in some other thread, i think it relates:
"sexism exists everywhere. i'm all for equality among the sexes. i agree that women should not be treated differently or percieved a different way. but bitching about something isn't going to make your problems go away. if you wanna stop sexism, just show people that women can be tough too, that women can be smart too, that women can be scary too. that is what more women need to do to be respected by men: scare everyone shitless"

Originally Posted by Joe Dalton

Men can focus better thus can do a specific job better
Women can perform better when multi tasking... though both are as important

i notice that too, men seem stubborn, women seem schizo.

[Thany]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalton

hmmmm not really
women and men have different attitudes towards their children and treat them differently thus its not strange that people assume that the women will will take care of the child
Not 2 mention its better for the child for different reasons

And that is the typical approach of the people who think that women are inferiors, it's not because you're male or female that you should do something specific, that's what is called sexism.

[Cammie]

Originally Posted by dragonz20

Explain how I am contradicting myself please...

You have no idea what you believe in. Make up your mind what side your opposing for. Are you equal or unequal or neutral?

In your statement you are saying you agree with Hoboaggins comment. "Hobobaggins is stating that men should take care of the women". Which is fine. Then you agree with Nak’s statement. Where she saying, basically everything equals out in the end.

Which is false! (sorry Nak) Women work very hard to be equal. We are still fighting for equality. Women will never be seen as equal to men. We make less money, we are used as sex symbols at the work place. Even with a degree men still make more money.
dragonz20 stop putting words and sentences together that don’t make sense. You forgot your talking to a female. In society today we have independent women who choose to take care of themselves or just pay for dinner when that time comes. Its not so much of a practice what you preach but preach what you practice.
And for women it comes form being part of a mans world. That’s why now a days women fight and will continue to fight for equality till the very end.

[Shii]

Originally Posted by Thany

And that is the typical approach of the people who think that women are inferiors, it's not because you're male or female that you should do something specific, that's what is called misogyny.

No, that's just sexism. Misogyny is outright hatred of women.

My opinion on this subject would just start a flamewar that I am far too tired to follow through with, so I'll stay quiet.

[Thany]

Originally Posted by ashibaka

No, that's just sexism. Misogyny is outright hatred of women.

My opinion on this subject would just start a flamewar that I am far too tired to follow through with, so I'll stay quiet.

Now that you recall me, you're right, that was sexism actually... Couldn't find back the word at this time... Must be tired... I think I should sleep more... ^^