sola - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[kct]

About your comment Skane, this has probably to do with the fact that:

Spoiler for the people here.:

The small community we had here, while the MSLN section exploded with shippers of the straights or the yuricons in terms of couples . Also, the fact that we got a tighter set of community here, since most of the others are busier in the other sections. Popularity plays another role here, although to be honest the anime is picking up fans...

I do not know about Mana though, since...

Spoiler for Koyori.:

Whatever will happen to Mana is based on the perception of the sisters about Aono and the rest. Remember, Mana already know very well that Matsuri's a Yaka, but yet to know the same about Aono.

Ascaloth: The HORROR.

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

MSLN?

Spoiler for Off-topic MSLN explanation:

MSLN = Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha

The Nanoha series seemed interesting, and the action was great even if the plot presentation was designed to seem like a kid's show (which it wasn't). I just couldn't get past the fanservice-y transformation sequence of a nude eight year old.

Oh, wait, this is the sola forum. Back on topic!

The speculation of Mana being an element of Aono's control is interesting... I really want to find some reason to explain the possibility away, but I can't.

It could explain why Aono doesn't have a problem with Mana. I'd previously assumed she put up with Mana's presence out of love for Koyori and appreciation for taking care of Yorito. I'm still sticking with that, though, and will assume that Aono has no jealous rage due to Mana because she's confident and because she doesn't have a history of drama like she does with Matsuri.

[Nemesis2124]

@Skane

Wow, I almost feel bad that I read that speculation. It's such a great idea, I think I'll end up disappointed if something similar doesn't happen.

[jphachiroku]

if Aono were to fold or folded long ago 1000 paper cranes, I wonder what her wish is.........

Spoiler for aono's wish:

Or is Yorito THE 1000 paper cranes itself.

[Skane]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

~
And oh, just in case your theory holds true...if Aono mind-controls Mana into a psycho-moe state, would it count towards your having your own foot for breakfast?

No, it would not count. I have a very specific guideline for rating and determining Psycho-moe. One of these guidelines is that the psychoticism must come from the person's own free will, and not due to external influences (such as drugs).

Forced psychoticism is a fake psycho-moe, and as such, not worthy of being labelled psycho-moe.

Additionally, while Yandere and Psycho-moe shares some similarities, I do not see them as being the same. Yandere is a sub-section of Psycho-moe. A character does not need to have a "Dere" side in order to be a candidate for Psycho-moe. Yanderes are just more well-recognised (and remembered) because the contrast between their non-psycho-side and their psycho-side is that much more pronounced.

Psycho-moe is about the loss of control and/or rationality. It can also be used to describe the questionable mental health of a person. Psycho-moe however, is NOT about the negative emotions such as anger and jealousy. Those emotions just act as catalysts for the outburst of Psycho-moe. This is the distinction that most people fail to make when they claim a person is getting psychotic.

Furthermore, people also need to be careful about differentiating between Angst and Psycho-moe. It rubs me the wrong way whenever people interchange these two terms freely. Angst is NOT Psycho-moe.

To put it very simply, when a person is in Angst, he is usually wallowing in self-pity and loses his direction in life. When a person is in Psycho-moe, he STILL has a direction in life, but takes a twisted path towards it. It is these twisted actions that make them so adorable and endearing.

For example, let us assume that it is true that Mana is being mind-controlled by Aono. If Mana breaks down hysterically and avoids people while questioning the meaning of her existence in the past few months, then this would be Angst.

It would take something extra before it becomes Psycho-moe.

Cheers.

[JediNight]

Oshi- last few seconds of that ep were 0_o That was completely unexpected that she could do that. I wonder then if Yorito is truly a real person now -- or could she choose to "unexist" him on a whim?

And where the heck did Yorito get the piece of glass from when she was watching him standing there then walk up and hug her, lol...

[Icerack]

Either Yorito preloaded his pockets with a shard before he entered the room or he grabbed one during the scene where they flashed to Aono going psycho. Okay, I'm just making things up.

[Nemesis2124]

I think you're right about the latter actually. He probably grabbed it from the broken window once seed mode kicked in.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Was it only me or did that episode from Lunar have lots of tracking problems?

Seed mode, eh? LOL ^_^

[Barbka]

As I allready wrote - Aono is sick in mind. I am not condemming her 'cause we don't know if she did this to Matsuri willingly or it just happend, but I am condemming her jealousy. If your love for someone is pure and not sick, you can still love him and be happy, 'cause he/she is happy in life - even if he/she is with a nother person in love relationship. Or if you are more realistic you can see that he wont love you, wish him luck and try to find your own happyness. To much jealousy is allways bad and bring people into a state of insanity where they can't see anymore what is good or bad, what is true or not... brings to murders...
That is why I am against obssesive jealousy. That is why I don't like Aono. For me she should just stay in the hospital - hospital for insane people and be treated by a very good psychoterapist

[octoberasian]

Originally Posted by orion

Spoiler:

The corrected order is Matsuri gasp, Yorito hug with both hands visible, Aono SEED gripping the cement, Matsuri stabbed, Yorito SEED holding glass shard. Aono is still suspect imo. Matsuri was allowed to enjoy a few seconds before getting it in the gut.

Yanderekko!

I've replayed that scene several times already and I've noticed:

Spoiler:

- There are no glass shards on the window sill

- In one second, Yorito has both hands behind Matsuri's back

- In the next second, we see Aono gripping the cement

- A second after that, only one hand behind Matsuri's back and we see Yorito holding a glass shard

- Then we see Matsuri pulling back and saying, "Yorito..." before she collapses

Something tells me Aono has some kind of ability to minimally-- and I say that lightly-- manipulate reality remotely. She not only was able to control Yorito, but also move a glass shard into his hand without us ever seeing Yorito bend down and grab one off the ground.

@Skane:

Spoiler:

I agree, in this thread I feel more comfortable posting here than the MGLNS thread. I don't post much in that thread now. As much as I enjoy the Nanoha series, I can't see a way I could contribute anything productive in that thread above the other dozen-plus posts.

Here, there is actually constructive and thoughtful discussion that relates to the series more closely. I guess as you said, it's because of the smaller group posting here.

[Nemesis2124]

Now we're steering into supreme plot-device superpower territory, but if we must I suppose. But remember, there's always the possibility the animators were just being lazy with where he got the glass from. It's not like they haven't utterly disregarded minor details in the past.

[Telliamed]

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

It could explain why Aono doesn't have a problem with Mana.

Mana is human; she's not a threat.

Aono chose to be Yorito's sister. I don't think she was so obsessed to imagine there was a possibility of a romantic relationship with him. Becoming interested in another girlwas always a possibility. Aono would have allowed that and even if it became serious, Mana could never take Yorito away from her; she'd always be his "sister" and close to him in that way. And if she doesn't like it, she can just move to another city and wipe his memory again.

Matsuri changes all that. She really can take him away from her because with Matsuri, there is the possibility of Yorito regaining the memories of his past life.

Originally Posted by JediNight

And where the heck did Yorito get the piece of glass from when she was watching him standing there then walk up and hug her, lol...

There are lots of minor continuity glitches throughout Sola. I've been forcing myself to ignore them for the sake of enjoying the story, acting, and (usually) the artwork.

Originally Posted by Guido

Koyori has officially become into Aono's cute pet-dog. Feed her a popsicle for everyday of a job well done.

Barusamiku su!

[Nemesis2124]

On that note, I suppose it's more accurate to say that Aono is suffering from something closer to abandonment issues, rather than a simple jealousy complex. Which is interesting, considering that was precisely what I felt she was stricken with before finding out her true identity. It's always good to see fluid and intuitive character development.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Nemesis2124

Now we're steering into supreme plot-device superpower territory, but if we must I suppose. But remember, there's always the possibility the animators were just being lazy with where he got the glass from. It's not like they haven't utterly disregarded minor details in the past.

Spoiler:

I vote for this as a similar glass shard was shown in the room before the stabbing occured. They prob weren't expecting us to thoroughly analyze that scene.
Of course, if we get to see it from Yorito's and Aono's perspectives, we could find out. Maybe it was a random piece that was laying on the window sill within reach. Doesn't this remind you of the search for the Shiori item in ep. 2 of Kanon2k6?

Originally Posted by Telliamed

Aono chose to be Yorito's sister. I don't think she was so obsessed to imagine there was a possibility of a romantic relationship with him. Becoming interested in another girlwas always a possibility. Aono would have allowed that and even if it became serious, Mana could never take Yorito away from her; she'd always be his "sister" and close to him in that way. And if she doesn't like it, she can just move to another city and wipe his memory again.

But the Aono dress up scene suggests something totally different. You don't go thru that much effort to go somewhere with a sibling normally. Also, is there any special meaning for the pattern of streaking she did to her hair? In SuperGals, one streaking pattern (Ran's) was suppose to mean that you had a boyfriend.

[felix]

Originally Posted by orion

time 7:07-9:38: Aono did some cleaning. She rearranged the room and took all of Yorito's sky pics down and didn't tell him where they went. Yorito pops a cork and storms out. Koyori tries to cover for Aono and gets yelled at too. Aono comforts Koyori and then gives Yorito his pic back. This is not what Kyuusai is upset over but it sets it up for everything else to follow.

Kayori didn't lie. That is most likely what Aono's intention was. Remember she doesn't have a love affair with Yorito. (at least we have no proof of such)

Flash back scenes would hint that its some sort of brother sister complex or something, but she doesn't seem to have a grudge against Matsuri.

Originally Posted by orion

time 16:42-17:35: Yorito has problems remembering past events and Matsuri memories keep creeping thru. Common thought is that Aono has manipulated his memories if he is the original or he has only been around for 3 months and Aono has created him. Aono may also have been trying to manipulate his memories during this scene.

Speculation
And if Aono created him, then what would be the point to hate Aono.
If he was already gone.. then using Sky's logic, Aono has legitimate rights over him

I don't like that kind of logic either, but there's still no reason to treat Yorito as more of a person and Aono as less.

Originally Posted by orion

time 20:10-20;19: Aono wandering around without an umbrella (Yorito ditched her to find Matsuri and she did not pick up his umbrella.) has a flashback in which Matsuri promises not to show herself around them ever again. This is the evidence as to why Aono was so confident in the above segment starting at 7:07 that Matsuri was gone for good. She's upset now that Matsuri is still in town.

O.o And..
Matsuri broke her promise and Aono didn't pick Yorito's umbrella, so now Aono's guilty of something.
Remember Yorito is completely obsessed, he was even imagining Aono as Matsuri when they were walking in the rain.

Originally Posted by orion

time 20:49-22:06: As Matsuri pleads for Yorito to leave and Yorito refuses, Aono goes SEED. Matsuri has a higher pitched gasp as Yorito draws her to him and says" Lets go home.". Unfortunately for Matsuri, that high pitched gasp was because she just got stabbed in the gut with a glass shard. Pain was the only reason for that gasp, not passion, and she falls unconscious saying "Yorito". Shot of Yorito shows him in SEED mode too holding a wickedly jagged and bloody glass shard. Common thought is that Aono in SEED mode manipulated Yorito to stab Matsuri. This is the cliffhanger that spawned over 100 posts before the subs.

Someone, I think, already mentioned Yorito had both his hands around her.
But then again the quality of the scene was kinda shaky, we'll need to see how it turns out to understand what really happened.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Barbka

As I allready wrote - Aono is sick in mind. I am not condemming her 'cause we don't know if she did this to Matsuri willingly or it just happend, but I am condemming her jealousy. If your love for someone is pure and not sick, you can still love him and be happy, 'cause he/she is happy in life - even if he/she is with a nother person in love relationship. Or if you are more realistic you can see that he wont love you, wish him luck and try to find your own happyness. To much jealousy is allways bad and bring people into a state of insanity where they can't see anymore what is good or bad, what is true or not... brings to murders...
That is why I am against obssesive jealousy. That is why I don't like Aono. For me she should just stay in the hospital - hospital for insane people and be treated by a very good psychoterapist

i doubt that its just jealousy that got aono in that psycho mode...if you think about it in the past yorito has already established a good relationship with matsuri...he may not find it as love (more like a really good friendship) but aono would have interpreted it differently...what she sees here is a threat to her very existance...and very much so if she is unable to carry on with her own relationship with yorito if matsuri takes him away...

but it goes on much further...as if it isnt bad enough for aono to already dislike matsuri...im willing to bet that it is matsuri who had a hand in yorito dying (though we still dont know the causes yet) ~ this dislike has turned to hate in a flash..."why?...why does my brother have to die for this yaka?"

and to make matters even worse...matsuri then goes on to revive aono after she attempted to join yorito in the afterlife okey thats just rubbing salt into the wounds...life isnt worth living anymore without yorito is what aono is thinking...and after "x" amount of years she manages to find him again...and this time she is determined to stay with him...

and thats where matsuri shows up again to take him away...the bane of aono's existance is back...

[felix]

I'm fairly inclined to believe Matsuri is somewhat guilty to whatever happened to Yorito in the past. But I doubt that the relationship with Aono is one riverly, at least not a surface one.

Not until the very last second of this episode was there even a trace of evidence suggesting Aono would even lay a finger on Matsuri. In all respects she doesn't seem to be the type. Although I guess many people would think of Aono as a Nagato Yuki from MoHS, Aono besides the she did something to Yorito part (revived him or whatever) has not been credited in the show with any other intentions that go any deeper.

As it stands now I think Aono is an open book. Yorito died xxx years ago, she's been turned into a yaka, against her own will, and a month ago feeling unbearable feelings of loneliness she does something very very dangerous to simply bring Yorito back. So her actions until now are hardly enough to convict her of any crime. If she could bring back Yorito into this world then it wouldn't have been that hard to just make herself play the part of her girlfriend instead of that of his sister. I know in Japan there's greater tolerance for these things but I doubt it goes this far. By making him her brother and not her boyfriend when it was obviously in her power (there was obviously no need for magic to do it either) proves that the love Aono has for Yorito isn't like the lust Yorito has for Matsuri.

Aono is not to blame, neither is Matsuri. But hey this is a forum, if something goes wrong we can't just call it a day, someone must be responsible for something. Concerning psycho-mode trigger, I think it has nothing to do with feelings, it probably just something that kicks in when the character becomes extremely weak; it is not unlikely that the character will involuntarily attack the nearest bystander.


Personally though, if I were to blame it on someone, I'd have to blame it all one Yorito. "I must show Matsuri the sky", like something like that is doable or even if it was like it would solve anything; thinking sky sky all day long and not how he's hurting people around him, he's a total idiot in my opinion. He's so the type that if faced with two choices, one that would possibly save Matsuri and one which would be 100% sure to get him a kiss, would go for option two. In other words, the romantic completely irresponsible type.

[Skyfall]

*letting the Aono bit slide for now*

Originally Posted by Cats

Personally though, if I were to blame it on someone, I'd have to blame it all one Yorito. "I must show Matsuri the sky", like something like that is doable or even if it was like it would solve anything; thinking sky sky all day long and not how he's hurting people around him, he's a total idiot in my opinion. He's so the type that if faced with two choices, one that would possibly save Matsuri and one which would be 100% sure to get him a kiss, would go for option two. In other words, the romantic completely irresponsible type.

Now... Yorito has done nothing wrong so far. Sure, the "i will show her the sky" sounds like a crackshot considering Matsuri's situation, but: we know that he found a way in the past, meaning there is a way. Since his obsession with the sky is, most likely, tied to Matsuri and is a sort of unconscious reaction, perhaps his confidence about him being able to show her the sky comes from his past as well.

Or not.

Hurting people around him? Who ? The only one who looks hurt from this is Aono... Yorito has all the right he needs to place his own priorities. If he longs for Matsuri more than for Aono then so be it - he isn't exactly obligated to feel otherwise. Aono isn't exactly being less selfish here.

From our perspective, either Aono or Matsuri is going to be hurt either way, regardless of what he does. That is just how "love triangles" work, and i don't think it is Yorito's fault he is stuck in such a situation.

[Cyz]

I thought they're gonna kiss but I guess hug is just good enough...for now . That whole chase thing IMO is really good. It just shows that Yorito is in love to Matsuri.