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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 14 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 30 | 40.54% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 34 | 45.95% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 7 | 9.46% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 1 | 1.35% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 2 | 2.70% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-01-29, 14:30 | Link #141 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 38
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While that is true on the surface the more I think about it the more the Sybil System and why it's treated almost seems like the head of a religious cult. For example. Up until now, Ginoza has always been portrayed as having an unwavering faith in morality of the Sibyl System, similar to that of a religious devotee. This analogy becomes even more apparent with the Bureau Chief’s zealous proselytizing about Sibyl’s role in their society and presumably civilization. The tone with which she describes its role in people’s lives along with the lexicon she uses, words like judgment and blessings, strongly suggests that she, and likely many others, view the Sibyl System as something akin to a religion or deity of some sort. They have simply traded one religion for another, one god for another.
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2013-01-29, 15:11 | Link #142 |
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkey
Age: 40
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I'm aware of its importance. Being a tool of measuring, what it measures is of immense value, pretty much the worth of humans. It'd indeed be indispensable right away if it were to arrive tomorrow. And building a society based on an objective assessment of the mind is rather plausible.
However, the director herself says that it's not as easy as letting drones roam the streets with dominators. It's not as simple as that. This is where our guys come in. And that is also why an inspector on her first day can oppose the practiced norm and can still get away with it. Maybe some individuals treat it as a religion but not the ministry if we're to believe what they said and did. |
2013-01-29, 16:57 | Link #143 | ||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Hm. I think this is where the heart of our disagreement lies. For me, Sybil is much more than a measuring tool in this society. While we can agree that there is room for doubt in the system (from the higher-ups' point of view) in the form of using human Enforcers, that is a minority view in the eyes of the public if it even has significance at all. Before Akane came it along, it was unheard of to hold back on shooting someone with an extremely high Psycho-Pass level. Sybil is one that judges and the Enforcers are the ones that execute its judgment. That is the order of things in this society. Makishima is, of course, an exception since the director pretty much authorized his capture. The thing about the helmets is that they're too recent a discovery to expect any meaningful change. Let's see how things turn out in the next episode, shall we?
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2013-01-29, 21:01 | Link #144 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Heh, that's a nice Utopia of what the Sybil-system has created or more like the creator of that system.
It turns out to be a Dystopia at some point like all systems humans have went through. The problem is not the system, but the human itself. With the Sybil-system humans tried to throw away their responsibilities of judging one's action. Too bad the system was created by human and thus cannot be perfect to begin with. The Old Lady Boss knows its flaws very well, but to protect the order, and the faith in the system, the flaws shall not be revealed to the outside world. But this is a game she can't play forever. And we are here to witness the downfall of the system. The only perfect solution to all this similar problems are not some changes in the form of how society looks like. It must be a change within each individual, or should i say one must give it up for the system to become perfect. The only solution is to transcend of what is known as a human by genetical engineering. Otherwise the problems will reoccur again and again with different settings but it can be all broken down to same basis. Reflecting on the real world and the situation right now, i think i would rather live under the Sybil-System. |
2013-01-29, 22:07 | Link #145 | ||||||
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'If Sybil is perfect, then the Dominators should be perfect, so why do we need these old anarchistic, obsolete guns?' - This is the thought the average citizen might have if they caught Akane or Kougami with an old-fashioned gun in their hands. At least, that's what I think the ministry is worried about. So Sybil is being treated as a god of sorts. It's being treated as something the average citizen should have complete faith in. So the smallest inconsistency, the tiniest contradiction, can not be tolerated. I suspect (though admittedly don't know) that Sybil was sold as this perfect system to the public. If I'm right, it was sold this way since it deals with life and death decisions on a regular basis, so people would naturally expect it to be infallible. Quote:
That's the whole point of Psycho-Pass readings, isn't it? To know and feel that everybody around you is a good, law-abiding citizen without criminal potential whatsoever and so you don't have to bother with assessing them at all? I mean, isn't that basically what Gino himself said to Akane in this episode? And the Dominator very clearly reinforces this by not allowing even professional law enforcement officers to shoot people unless Sibyl gives the go-ahead to do so (and even then, Sibyl determines if its a lethal shot or a paralyzing one). Isn't it obvious that one of the main features of the system itself is people giving up the responsibility and need to assess other people; giving that up to Sibyl so that's one less thing they have to worry about in life? And you know, now that I think about it, this is another reason why Sybil has to be seen as flawless. An implicit social contract has been made between humans and Sybil. That contract, from the human side, is "I'm not going to worry about strangers, because I can trust Sybil to take care of them. All I need to care about is myself, and those closest to me. That's it. I need never worry about crime, political corruption, poverty, disadvantaged minorities, or anybody I don't personally know - Because I can safely trust that Sybil will perfectly look after them." And I'll even admit that I can see why some would find that appealing (although personally I don't). But it can only be appealing if the individual citizen can in fact trust Sybil completely. Once they can't, they need to start assessing other people again. Once the human judgement of law enforcement officers becomes a noticeable factor again, then that human judgement itself becomes open to necessary public scrutiny (not unlike, say, my fellow Canadians and I questioning a RCMP Officer that's a bit too trigger-happy with a taser). Quote:
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Given the options, I'll stick with the real world, thank you.
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2013-01-29, 22:19 | Link #146 | |||
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkey
Age: 40
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Yeah of course, I hope that the story will get its act together. It was going great till 11 and in 12 & 13. |
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2013-01-29, 22:41 | Link #147 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
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I held back on commenting for as long as I could because this episode was designed to, and did in fact elicit highly emotional reactions. This makes for great television, but doesn’t do as well for a reasoned discussion of deeper issues. Urobuchi & co. deliberately staged the public assault/homicide scene to maximize audience outrage, and very skillfully too, in my humble opinion. Those who would complain about the all-controlling nature of Sybil ought to be aware that they are themselves being manipulated emotionally as they view this program, even if it is being done for their entertainment, and perhaps, enlightenment(?).
Speaking of emotional reactions, back in my law school days we were introduced to the old adage that “hard cases make bad law.” Google it guys. I find it very relevant to this discussion. Makishima and his ilk are extreme outliers in a very steep bell curve. Would you overturn a functional system on account of vanishingly rare, albeit sensational exceptions to the general rule? What would you have in its stead? Would you tweak the system to allow a modicum of violent crime and aggression just to keep the general population on its toes? How much more morally acceptable would that be? In fact, if you had the technology that underpins the Sybil system at your disposal, what would you do with it? Would you be the Luddite and pretend that it had never been thought up? Or, if you decide not to apply the technology to the logical extreme that we see in Psychopass, how would you decide where to draw the line on what will likely be a slippery slippery slope? I don’t pretend to know the answer to these questions. What makes this show more than just a potboiler to me is that it provides a good context to ponder the human condition anew. Any system we think up is bound to be weighted down by the same contradictions that are inherent in our nature as imperfect human beings. So those of you who still insist that simple answers exist to the moral issues implicated in this series ought to consider the possibility that you may not have thought about them deeply enough. |
2013-01-29, 23:27 | Link #148 | |||
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkey
Age: 40
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I believe you guys are blowing this "tiniest contradiction by the ministry" thing out of proportions. People die left and right who have families, friends. Because of the system's gaps. Those would be not only way more noticeable but also extremely more bothering. Average citizen doesn't even see a dominator through their whole life anyway. Heh, is there anyone here who saw a police use their pistol in their entire life? Now, what are the odds that a citizen would witness a dominator being used in a society that has a much less crime frequency than ours? Let me tell what would completely demolish the system: If a masked gang went on a killing spree downtown and our guys can't do anything against them due to insisting on dominators. I suspect that might happen soon in fact and I'll facepalm. |
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2013-01-30, 00:14 | Link #149 | |||||
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But electricity wasn't indispensable the day it arrived. Likewise, if something like Sybil was invented tomorrow, it wouldn't be indispensable "right away". I think there's a misconception here that whenever something new is invented, human society has no choice but to adapt to it and accept it for all time. Given the impact that the internet, FaceBook, Twitter, and smart phones have had on humanity over the past 20 years, I can certainly understand and sympathize with many holding that misconception. But the internet, Facebook, Twitter, and smart phones have all taken off because society in general sees considerable positives to these things, and no unacceptable downsides (many of us recognize the downsides, but we view them as tolerable). But this isn't always the case with new technologies. How do I know this? One word: Eugenics. During the early decades of the 20th century, eugenics was very popular throughout much of the world, and was even promoted by many governments and countries. Eugenics technology hasn't gone away. The US government could, in theory, start a widespread eugenics program in a short period of time if it wanted to. But it doesn't want to, because people ultimately rejected eugenics. This is because people saw unacceptable downsides to it (and yes, association with a very infamous national government during WWII certainly didn't help eugenics any ). And you know, I see certain troubling similarities between the Sibyl system and eugenics. In both cases, much of the idea is to weed out undesirable people with undesirable characteristics/traits so you're left (in theory) with a perfect society. When it came to eugenics, people decided that some things are best left to chance. People could conceivably make the same determination with something like the Sibyl system too. Quote:
1. War, at least between nations, no longer exists as we know it. 2. Nation-states themselves no longer exist, as we know them. There's an one world government in the world of Psycho-Pass, and we just haven't seen that yet. Sybil is truly a global system. The Director is simply handling Japan's implementation of it. 3. Japan has a military, but there are clear divisions between it and the police. The military are strictly on bases, and are the only people who have access to old-fashioned guns. I would imagine that many of these soldiers are latent criminals due to things like PTSD, so keeping the military separate from the general population makes a lot of sense in the world of Psycho-Pass. Quote:
Or maybe they're just afraid of letting Enforcers (who are latent criminals, after all) wield old-fashioned guns in a crowded city. Quote:
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2013-01-30, 02:38 | Link #150 |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Yes, but on other side of the fence, it also means that they aren't allowed to apprehend anyone that Sybil does not deem to be dangerous, at least, not unless they're explicitly ordered to do so like in the case of Makishima. For that, Dominators are still necessary.
Of course, once the news of the helmets is reported to those on top, that might give room for a change in procedure. The important thing here is that clearance is still necessary before going against protocol.
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2013-01-30, 22:20 | Link #151 | ||
cho~ kakkoii
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
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While it may not be a straight forward answer, it's still close enough!
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2013-02-02, 12:55 | Link #153 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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@Monir & Qilin's quote That is pretty much what it is. Those are valid points of either side of an argument.
Although I'm going to say that individual freedom isn't entirely impossible. In the end, people tend to have an aptitude for the the things they like doing anyways. Although I guess the artsy sector might be a bit of a problem. Even though it seems like "unauthorized" artists are still allowed to do their stuff. |
2013-03-04, 00:20 | Link #154 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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This was a pretty good episode. Unfortunately, it also highlights the structural weaknesses of the show itself. The primary one at play here is that to be truly effective, the viewer should feel something about the show's society being threatened. However, since we are all familiar with the gaping holes in the Sibyl System, the more natural reation is a big "meh".
It's quite amazing how close the themes of Psycho Pass come to the ones in Shinsekai Yori. It's too bad that the latter show has way more interesting things to say, and that it's way better at hitting its high notes.
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2013-03-16, 18:18 | Link #155 |
On a mission
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So I'm trying to catch up here. My last thoughts about the show was that it gets good points, but you know, a lot of it can get not so subtle to hammer in points. It can cause a certain Darkness Induced Apathy And then I turn on this episode, and lol.
Perhaps it was a point about how people are unable to think for themselves and recognize dangerous situations. Perhaps it's a meta-point, how we, the audience, are so desensitized to gratuitous violence that "I've seen worse" also comes up. Perhaps it's some really dark form of humor. But in any case, I sorta just rolled my eyes. It brought points back, but I just sorta felt it was sorta smashed and how should I say it... pretty typical "This is a dystopia blah blah blah" despite the efforts to shove it on the screen. In any case, it almost feels like searching for psychological concepts on Wiki and then deciding "This will be the subject for today's episode!" I understand the nature of the throwaway victims is supposed to create a cold. detached feeling towards this society to provide various commentary about how alienated individuals and morality have become. But it's definitely created a sense of detachment that is not good for really trying to get in this show. And really, we have tons of throwaway victims already. Still, Makishima might have a point that people's minds really need to be freed, lest they not recognize the evil that is before their own eyes. I will give the episode props for that useless helpbot. Glad to know that automated help is just as useless in the future.
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