AnimeSuki Forums

tsunade666 · 2010-06-12, 00:31

or rather the Saints would just use their super human strength and beat out Touma. IB would work on supernatural powers and phenomenon but it wouldn't work on a strong being physically to begin with.

Any form of telepathic or teleporting or even a ritual type or area of effect where IB is present would ALL BE CANCEL OUT.

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-06-12, 02:18

Well, it's not the fact that they have superhuman strength; Imagine Breaker can negate that, but rather is that they are just better trained at hand to hand combat.

tsunade666 · 2010-06-12, 04:38

While I'm reading some material for vol 20 and remembering some stuffs.

I remember something or rather I think of something that might connect all.

I wonder if imagine breaker real form is a dagger or a sword. The holy stone that Fianmma wants. His trying to complete his power but so far it's all related to Micheal and his holy right. And from the previews comments about Imagine Breaker and when I saw pointing a sword or rather standing on the top of Lucifer. I just thought that what if Imagine Breaker is the one Micheal Use to seal the Demon Lucifer and put him in his place.

It just felt great if it's real form is a sword or rather I prefer a dagger. I want to see Touma wield a dagger and cut paths the dimension destroying everything on his path. Just like what Fianmma said about him being the same as Fiamma. They both obliterate anything that blocks their path.

l3fty · 2010-06-12, 04:49

I asked about the mental intrusions (telepathy) mostly because Mikoto wants to help Touma about his memories by finding Mental Out, who is an esper.

The feather spell effect was presented as permanent and considering that his personality is pretty much unchanged from before that incident it wouldn't present any new information to him, except perhaps his outings with Mikoto and his interactions with Index prior to it, so who knows.

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-06-12, 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by l3fty

I asked about the mental intrusions (telepathy) mostly because Mikoto wants to help Touma about his memories by finding Mental Out, who is an esper.

The feather spell effect was presented as permanent and considering that his personality is pretty much unchanged from before that incident it wouldn't present any new information to him, except perhaps his outings with Mikoto and his interactions with Index prior to it, so who knows.

I was under the impression that Mikoto did not understand the full circumstances of Touma's memory lost. If it was a normal case of Amnesia then the Queen might be able to cure him. But in Touma's case, it was the complete destruction of his braincells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

While I'm reading some material for vol 20 and remembering some stuffs.

I remember something or rather I think of something that might connect all.

I wonder if imagine breaker real form is a dagger or a sword. The holy stone that Fianmma wants. His trying to complete his power but so far it's all related to Micheal and his holy right. And from the previews comments about Imagine Breaker and when I saw pointing a sword or rather standing on the top of Lucifer. I just thought that what if Imagine Breaker is the one Micheal Use to seal the Demon Lucifer and put him in his place.

It just felt great if it's real form is a sword or rather I prefer a dagger. I want to see Touma wield a dagger and cut paths the dimension destroying everything on his path. Just like what Fianmma said about him being the same as Fiamma. They both obliterate anything that blocks their path.

I thought that the sword of the Archangel Michael was the 'Sword of Mercy', otherwise known as [Curtana=Original]. Unless granting the power of the Archangel is somehow different from the Archangel's actual sword.

Anyway, you probably should think bigger. With all the hints of Kamijo Touma being [La Persona superiore a Dio], whatever his power is- there's a chance it's higher than Angels. Here's my speculation, it's totally out of there and unproven but it's been bugging me for awhile.

I think that Imagine Breaker might be related to the 'Throne of God', which is said to represent God's authority and power. Since Touma's power is to negate/destroy all powers that doesn't exist from this world, it's like an admin kicking out things that doesn't belong in this world that 'God' created. I'm not saying he's God, but that Imagine Breaker is meant to carry out God's authority or law that things which doesn't belong in this world, shouldn't be in this world.

If this somewhat sounds familiar, it's probably because you heard it from someone with a similar power

P.S - By the way, people tend to forget, but Lucifer is still an Angel... Supernatural, Lol.

tsunade666 · 2010-06-12, 05:52

If it means to kick out thins which are alien to this world then that means that the god and angel aren't meant on that world too which is contradicting each other.

If his the co-admin of the world then again his against the creator of that world. It's acting as bipolar to each other which is confusing at all.

I just want to see him go into dark side of the force.

Ashaman · 2010-06-12, 06:02

Angels aren't suppposed to descend to the human plane. Therefore they don't belong and the theory still stands.

I kind of like that idea actually.

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-06-12, 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

If it means to kick out thins which are alien to this world then that means that the god and angel aren't meant on that world too which is contradicting each other.

If his the co-admin of the world then again his against the creator of that world. It's acting as bipolar to each other which is confusing at all.

I just want to see him go into dark side of the force.

Why not? Since when are Angels apart of this world? They aren't created from this world, they are created in Heaven, which is like a separate dimension/world/universe altogether.

As for God... That's why he is [La Persona superiore a Dio].

If you look at God from the Science side perspective, God is like a SYSTEM and not a being, the laws of physics and such that the world is bound to. The laws of physic could be considered God's 'authority' and the [Throne of God], Imagine Breaker, is to uphold that law. Also Imagine Breaker doesn't affect the lifeforce of the planet could be explain by that it is originally a part of nature in this world.

BUT... If Touma can somehow update Imagine Breaker like how Accelerator can update his Redirection... Maybe he can even deny the laws of this world.

Master Assassin · 2010-06-12, 06:28

<joke>It might be that Touma's IB is some sort of the God Hands, and he apparently only have the right hand and is missing the left. And if he somehow awakens he'll be the Gene of Indexverse, defeating enemies not with a single punch, but hundreds of them in seconds!</joke>

Just joking, if any of you still think I'm serious.

At this time, according to what we've known is that his IB is in his right hand, can negate (supposedly) unnatural powers such as magic or esper ability, and as of volume 20 he is creative enough to use his ability's shortcomings (that he can't completely negate Accelerator's wings) as an advantage in combat. Any further upgrade, no matter how tiny... I can only think things will get interesting...

tsunade666 · 2010-06-12, 08:42

but his still considered weak no matter on how you look at it. Just like what Accelerator said. His power is still consider weak on it's own and I think that just add the fun on watching how the fight would develop knowing that the hero is weak (aside from Accelerator)

But really him being an admin of this "world" and moderating the entering of alien laws and removing them. I also like the idea but that didn't connect on fianmma wanting it. Because it would just erase his power even if Fianmma said that his the main course and he needed preparation for it. But from the vol 20 it looks like his only interested mostly on the "archangel Micheal" and it just be more connecting if his someone connected to it too. Though
it looks like curtana original is that sword which is used to finish of the fallen angel.

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-06-12, 08:47

I've honestly not idea what Fiamma intends to do with Touma's Imagine Breaker, I saw a something on the Toaru wikia that said that Imagine Breaker could remove the Original Sin from his body completely- Doesn't sound reliable to me, but what would I know?

Miraluka · 2010-06-12, 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I think that Imagine Breaker might be related to the 'Throne of God', which is said to represent God's authority and power. Since Touma's power is to negate/destroy all powers that doesn't exist from this world, it's like an admin kicking out things that doesn't belong in this world that 'God' created. I'm not saying he's God, but that Imagine Breaker is meant to carry out God's authority or law that things which doesn't belong in this world, shouldn't be in this world.

You have reminded me the main thing about God'r Right Seat, all their members are aligned with a position in the Heaven, but then who is aligned with the center?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

P.S - By the way, people tend to forget, but Lucifer is still an Angel... Supernatural, Lol.

Not only that, Lucifer was the one who carried the Light and being on the top was equal to God.

tsunade666 · 2010-06-12, 09:23

wings that shines the brightest and most beautiful and he eventually starts to overthrow god but ended up being punished for it.

quite ironic is this world where ones teaching is the god is almighty and perfect but it ones start to question it they would only say what could a human being do to question a god's plan?

And if touma stands at the middle but his powers are currently doesn't fit for it. Unless the holy stone moves into the center of his body or his heart which maybe with it he can utilize it's full power by creating a space of unaffected by alien laws.

Shadow5YA · 2010-06-12, 11:23

Touma's condition is known as retrograde amnesia, where he is unable to recall events before the trauma. Aside from the whole magic feather thing, Touma's condition is fairly common in that amnesia is usually associated with brain damage.

There is a misconception among some writers that amnesia can easily be cured. You must have seen some comedies where a person gets a head injury and can't remember anything, then near the end of the episode the person gets another head injury and suddenly he's cured of his amnesia. It doesn't work that way.

Realistically, there's no way for Touma to be cured, because that requires Touma's lost brain cells to be restored exactly the way it was before, from the cells themselves to all the complex folds and neural connections that are made between brain cells.

Fictionally, it's not hard. You could make magic to do anything. On the scientific side, you could make some claim that all cells have their own "memory" or data of every other cell in the body right down to a T, and when the body tries to repair a cell, it draws on that memory, then just have either the Heaven Canceller or the Queen stimulate the brain to repair itself. It's a stretch, but then again this is the same writer who gave Mikoto's arcade coin the destructive power of a mini-nuke, despite it going only three times the speed of sound.

tsunade666 · 2010-06-12, 12:12

Heaven's canceler would have cure him already if the fried brain cells could be cure. But the fact that the heaven's canceler doesn't do anything means his beyond repair on his field of science. Unless they do a round about way to fix it. Theirs no way of fixing it.

And for touma being the admin of the worlds standard. What if he goes hay wire like Tohno Shiki which from the perception of death to the origins of death can be seen. In touma's case
from mere illusion being killed he started killing the standards of this world too.

I love to see touma gain the ability of death god's perceptions. It's just that his using his fist is GAR but I want to see him utilize other stuffs. He uses his brain has tactics in battle but bare hands fighting is too much manly. I want to see him wield weapon too like Aqua with his 3.5 meter Ascalon.

RPG_Fanatic · 2010-06-12, 12:43

Looks like someone has started translating chapter 8 of Volume 10.

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...me10_Chapter_8

Miraluka · 2010-06-12, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPG_Fanatic

Looks like someone has started translating chapter 8 of Volume 10.

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...me10_Chapter_8

I'm sure that update was done by none than other than Teh_Ping.

Not only that there is also Volume 17, prologue and a part of the vol.20.
http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...ume17_Prologue

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...me20_Chapter_4

tsunade666 · 2010-06-12, 15:01

among the chapters of the vol 20. The only thing I haven't read yet is chapter 3.

But I was surprised. That was an actual translation not a summary of vol 20 chapter 4 part 5. That explains the details on some stuffs.

sasuke706 · 2010-06-12, 17:30

Finished the chart. If there's any issues you can note with it, PM me.

Spoiler for Chart:

I also read the summaries, and unless I misunderstood it, Rikou is oddly fluent in Russian. Makes me wonder if Touma knew another language before his amnesia.

Suzuku · 2010-06-12, 17:55

After reading the summaries of volume 20 I can't wait to see it animated. It sounds like an awesome adventure.

2010-06-12, 02:18	Link #3282
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Well, it's not the fact that they have superhuman strength; Imagine Breaker can negate that, but rather is that they are just better trained at hand to hand combat. __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2010-06-12, 06:02	Link #3287
Ashaman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Age: 34	Angels aren't suppposed to descend to the human plane. Therefore they don't belong and the theory still stands. I kind of like that idea actually. __________________

2010-06-12, 06:28	Link #3289
Master Assassin Portable Dude Mk. II Artist Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: All ghillied up spying on someone ~2,000 yards away using telescope sights. Age: 35	<joke>It might be that Touma's IB is some sort of the God Hands, and he apparently only have the right hand and is missing the left. And if he somehow awakens he'll be the Gene of Indexverse, defeating enemies not with a single punch, but hundreds of them in seconds!</joke> Just joking, if any of you still think I'm serious. At this time, according to what we've known is that his IB is in his right hand, can negate (supposedly) unnatural powers such as magic or esper ability, and as of volume 20 he is creative enough to use his ability's shortcomings (that he can't completely negate Accelerator's wings) as an advantage in combat. Any further upgrade, no matter how tiny... I can only think things will get interesting... __________________ I like to run portable on my dude, so I ran while running runs in my portably portable, dude-like dude. --- This line over here is a placeholder. ----

2010-06-12, 08:47	Link #3291
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	I've honestly not idea what Fiamma intends to do with Touma's Imagine Breaker, I saw a something on the Toaru wikia that said that Imagine Breaker could remove the Original Sin from his body completely- Doesn't sound reliable to me, but what would I know? __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2010-06-12, 00:31	Link #3281
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	or rather the Saints would just use their super human strength and beat out Touma. IB would work on supernatural powers and phenomenon but it wouldn't work on a strong being physically to begin with. Any form of telepathic or teleporting or even a ritual type or area of effect where IB is present would ALL BE CANCEL OUT.

2010-06-12, 04:38	Link #3283
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	While I'm reading some material for vol 20 and remembering some stuffs. I remember something or rather I think of something that might connect all. I wonder if imagine breaker real form is a dagger or a sword. The holy stone that Fianmma wants. His trying to complete his power but so far it's all related to Micheal and his holy right. And from the previews comments about Imagine Breaker and when I saw pointing a sword or rather standing on the top of Lucifer. I just thought that what if Imagine Breaker is the one Micheal Use to seal the Demon Lucifer and put him in his place. It just felt great if it's real form is a sword or rather I prefer a dagger. I want to see Touma wield a dagger and cut paths the dimension destroying everything on his path. Just like what Fianmma said about him being the same as Fiamma. They both obliterate anything that blocks their path.

2010-06-12, 04:49	Link #3284
l3fty Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010	I asked about the mental intrusions (telepathy) mostly because Mikoto wants to help Touma about his memories by finding Mental Out, who is an esper. The feather spell effect was presented as permanent and considering that his personality is pretty much unchanged from before that incident it wouldn't present any new information to him, except perhaps his outings with Mikoto and his interactions with Index prior to it, so who knows.

2010-06-12, 05:52	Link #3286
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	If it means to kick out thins which are alien to this world then that means that the god and angel aren't meant on that world too which is contradicting each other. If his the co-admin of the world then again his against the creator of that world. It's acting as bipolar to each other which is confusing at all. I just want to see him go into dark side of the force.

2010-06-12, 08:42	Link #3290
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	but his still considered weak no matter on how you look at it. Just like what Accelerator said. His power is still consider weak on it's own and I think that just add the fun on watching how the fight would develop knowing that the hero is weak (aside from Accelerator) But really him being an admin of this "world" and moderating the entering of alien laws and removing them. I also like the idea but that didn't connect on fianmma wanting it. Because it would just erase his power even if Fianmma said that his the main course and he needed preparation for it. But from the vol 20 it looks like his only interested mostly on the "archangel Micheal" and it just be more connecting if his someone connected to it too. Though it looks like curtana original is that sword which is used to finish of the fallen angel.

2010-06-12, 09:23	Link #3293
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	wings that shines the brightest and most beautiful and he eventually starts to overthrow god but ended up being punished for it. quite ironic is this world where ones teaching is the god is almighty and perfect but it ones start to question it they would only say what could a human being do to question a god's plan? And if touma stands at the middle but his powers are currently doesn't fit for it. Unless the holy stone moves into the center of his body or his heart which maybe with it he can utilize it's full power by creating a space of unaffected by alien laws.

2010-06-12, 11:23	Link #3294
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	Touma's condition is known as retrograde amnesia, where he is unable to recall events before the trauma. Aside from the whole magic feather thing, Touma's condition is fairly common in that amnesia is usually associated with brain damage. There is a misconception among some writers that amnesia can easily be cured. You must have seen some comedies where a person gets a head injury and can't remember anything, then near the end of the episode the person gets another head injury and suddenly he's cured of his amnesia. It doesn't work that way. Realistically, there's no way for Touma to be cured, because that requires Touma's lost brain cells to be restored exactly the way it was before, from the cells themselves to all the complex folds and neural connections that are made between brain cells. Fictionally, it's not hard. You could make magic to do anything. On the scientific side, you could make some claim that all cells have their own "memory" or data of every other cell in the body right down to a T, and when the body tries to repair a cell, it draws on that memory, then just have either the Heaven Canceller or the Queen stimulate the brain to repair itself. It's a stretch, but then again this is the same writer who gave Mikoto's arcade coin the destructive power of a mini-nuke, despite it going only three times the speed of sound.

2010-06-12, 12:12	Link #3295
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	Heaven's canceler would have cure him already if the fried brain cells could be cure. But the fact that the heaven's canceler doesn't do anything means his beyond repair on his field of science. Unless they do a round about way to fix it. Theirs no way of fixing it. And for touma being the admin of the worlds standard. What if he goes hay wire like Tohno Shiki which from the perception of death to the origins of death can be seen. In touma's case from mere illusion being killed he started killing the standards of this world too. I love to see touma gain the ability of death god's perceptions. It's just that his using his fist is GAR but I want to see him utilize other stuffs. He uses his brain has tactics in battle but bare hands fighting is too much manly. I want to see him wield weapon too like Aqua with his 3.5 meter Ascalon.

2010-06-12, 12:43	Link #3296
RPG_Fanatic Fallere825 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Inside my mind	Looks like someone has started translating chapter 8 of Volume 10. http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...me10_Chapter_8

2010-06-12, 15:01	Link #3298
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	among the chapters of the vol 20. The only thing I haven't read yet is chapter 3. But I was surprised. That was an actual translation not a summary of vol 20 chapter 4 part 5. That explains the details on some stuffs.

2010-06-12, 17:30	Link #3299
sasuke706 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	Finished the chart. If there's any issues you can note with it, PM me. Spoiler for Chart: I also read the summaries, and unless I misunderstood it, Rikou is oddly fluent in Russian. Makes me wonder if Touma knew another language before his amnesia.

2010-06-12, 17:55	Link #3300
Suzuku (`･⊝･´)/\(`･⊝･´) Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Jacksonville, FL Age: 30	After reading the summaries of volume 20 I can't wait to see it animated. It sounds like an awesome adventure.