Abilities and Technologies: Speculation based on Science, Metaphysics, and Magic

[Miraluka]

Since your very first quote I can tell I have a different view then. No need to stretch it further as much as you do.

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

To phases: it seems like i used the wrong word, i meant: eternal, like in many many uncountable many versions

Infinite?

while science only has one (from which we know)....

Technically 5 I think: the Imaginary Number District, the Artificial Heaven (not the same as the District, this one is supposedly Aleister's end goal), where Dark Matter comes from, Baggage City during the Holistic experiment, and maybe the Pure World.

Do note that I am extrapolating here, and most likely in the wrong.

i dont really care if it sounds lame or cheap, i simply want one crazy ass which managed to break the "wall" between this two sides....

Pretty much what Gremlin did actually.

+ i never saw a esper ability which healed people but many different spells which can do it (i know, completly useless thought but -_- )

Well Himegami's Deep Blood doesn't actually heal people, but is very useful to first aid IIRC. And what about Motoaru's Auto Rebirth?

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Since your very first quote I can tell I have a different view then. No need to stretch it further as much as you do.

Oh? I thought you wanted to argue a point. This topic is dedicated to speculation about the various phenomena in TAMNI, their nature and mechanisms of action. People present points, others present counterpoints, which are answered by counter-counterpoints and hopefully in all that chaos we manage to get our facts straight.

However, if you refuse to argue, if no amount of evidence can change your mind, if you are happy to agree to disagree, then we can't do that. That's fine with me, it spares me 30 minutes collecting evidence to use against you, but if so, why did you even bother expressing your view in the first place?

As for me, I am open to all ideas. It doesn't happen often, but when I find I can't contradict what someone else says, I do concede their point. If you ever change your mind or have some incontrovertible proof to throw my way, I'm still here.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

Oh? I thought you wanted to argue a point. This topic is dedicated to speculation about the various phenomena in TAMNI, their nature and mechanisms of action. People present points, others present counterpoints, which are answered by counter-counterpoints and hopefully in all that chaos we manage to get our facts straight.

However, if you refuse to argue, if no amount of evidence can change your mind, if you are happy to agree to disagree, then we can't do that. That's fine with me, it spares me 30 minutes collecting evidence to use against you, but if so, why did you even bother expressing your view in the first place?

As for me, I am open to all ideas. It doesn't happen often, but when I find I can't contradict what someone else says, I do concede their point. If you ever change your mind or have some incontrovertible proof to throw my way, I'm still here.

Because I didn't agree.

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Because I didn't agree.

ok? so what? You gave your answered and gave his, fact are facts, opinions are opinions.... It's either Objective or Subjective reasons. Pick your poison. If your not going to even listen or understand then why even bothering posting besides "just because you didn't agree" that's a little childish just saying.
I read both your two's posts both have different views on the topic, I see where both of you are coming from, I have similar views both ways as well.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

ok? so what? You gave your answered and gave his, fact are facts, opinions are opinions.... It's either Objective or Subjective reasons. Pick your poison. If your not going to even listen or understand then why even bothering posting besides "just because you didn't agree" that's a little childish just saying.
I read both your two's posts both have different views on the topic, I see where both of you are coming from, I have similar views both ways as well.

Meh, at this point people who have read me for a good time knows I post from a phone and isn't easy to keep on quoting bit by bit every single part(and sometimes the whole quote with the answer disappears<---this happened various times when talking with derstku... orz), it would be easier with a desktop on home, also from my work place of all places I'll be doomed if busted.

And.... I'm goddam lazy (my catchphrase)

Isn't it childish to act like you because didn't get what you wanted? . Relax.

Maybe next time.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Well Himegami's Deep Blood doesn't actually heal people, but is very useful to first aid IIRC. And what about Motoaru's Auto Rebirth?

Don't mind him. Because of his love for Accelerator, Lv.7 completely forgot that Dark Matter is far cheaper and more broken than most currently known healing magic (that has nothing to do with magic gods).

[LevelSeven]

Well Himegami's Deep Blood doesn't actually heal people, but is very useful to first aid IIRC. And what about Motoaru's Auto Rebirth?

Allfiction i think you misunderstood my question, i know that their are beings who can heal themselfes but i never saw a power who healed others

espers and magicians have stuff for attack,defense,mind-related stuff but only magicians have powers for binding people, healing them, finding them, and other sidepowers who arent strong for fights but incredible convenient for other stuff....
AND i want (even if it sounds boring) a char which can use the peak of both powers, like a fusion of the instand/always usuable esper powers and the everywhere usuable but slow (needs preparation) magic abilitys...
=> a power which is everywhere useful + everytime usuable.... (sounds cheap but i still want a all-around char)

btw, desertsku, if you dont have anything to say than dont post useless stuff + i dont love accel, he is by a far gap the most interesting char in toaru , my allaround #1 fictional char is dean from supernatural, in manga-world it is one punch man (he isnt interesting but i like him) + i already said that dark matter could OP nearly everyone, excluding aiwass :P + you should do what this person under your post says: Dont Bully

Infinite?

ahh, exactly, i couldnt find the word

Technically 5 I think: the Imaginary Number District, the Artificial Heaven (not the same as the District, this one is supposedly Aleister's end goal), where Dark Matter comes from, Baggage City during the Holistic experiment, and maybe the Pure World.

Do note that I am extrapolating here, and most likely in the wrong.

isnt art.heaven and number district the same?
Number district is the place of hyouka, it is called Art heaven if fuse kazakiri is activated...
i would really like to see dark matters dimension XD
Wasnt baggage Citys distortion magical?
I think the pure world isnt a dimension, maybe it is the zero-world without any distortions (without dimension/phases)...

[dniv]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Don't mind him. Because of his love for Accelerator, Lv.7 completely forgot that Dark Matter is far cheaper and more broken than most currently known healing magic (that has nothing to do with magic gods).

Lol Magic Gods might have better healing magic. They honestly probably do. We just don't know what it is yet. But I'm completely probably missing the point here.

[RPG_Fanatic]

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but I thought popped into my head about what kind of esper power someone with multiple personality disorder would awaken to.
If each personality is distinct, with their own values, would each personality have a unique personal reality and therefore an different ability?
It would make for an interesting opponent if each personality had their own ability.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by RPG_Fanatic

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but I thought popped into my head about what kind of esper power someone with multiple personality disorder would awaken to.
If each personality is distinct, with their own values, would each personality have a unique personal reality and therefore an different ability?
It would make for an interesting opponent if each personality had their own ability.

I would say that they maybe has different varietys of the same power....
By magnetism: one can only control lead while the other one controls gold....
By telekinesis: one can only move light objects but with great control, the other one controls only heavy objects with cr*ppy (like, being able to throwing a car from one side to another)

[RPG_Fanatic]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

I would say that they maybe has different varietys of the same power....
By magnetism: one can only control lead while the other one controls gold....
By telekinesis: one can only move light objects but with great control, the other one controls only heavy objects with cr*ppy (like, being able to throwing a car from one side to another)

Makes sense. Even if the different personal realities, they still have the same DNA. I still think it could make for an interesting character.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by RPG_Fanatic

Makes sense. Even if the different personal realities, they still have the same DNA. I still think it could make for an interesting character.

I agree,
+ it would make it hard to judge such a person as 'evil' if it cant really control his own actions

+ one personality would be like superman (the absolut/perfect good one) and the other one would be like the one of the joker (endless crazyness)

Would be cool to have such a char

[natchu96]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

I agree,
+ it would make it hard to judge such a person as 'evil' if it cant really control his own actions

+ one personality would be like superman (the absolut/perfect good one) and the other one would be like the one of the joker (endless crazyness)

Would be cool to have such a char

And the power they have would either be capable of both beneficial and destructive applications but each of the personalities only know how one? We can have a "I wish I can fight so other people don't have to endanger themselves to protect me" complex going on and have the same "I wish I could stop hurting people" complex Accel has all at once

. . . or make the good personality be an effective level 0 and not remember what the other one does while the evil version goes on a crime spree, that would keep suspicion off of them.

Either way, it's hard to make multiple personality disorder characters boring in an action series.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by natchu96

And the power they have would either be capable of both beneficial and destructive applications but each of the personalities only know how one? We can have a "I wish I can fight so other people don't have to endanger themselves to protect me" complex going on and have the same "I wish I could stop hurting people" complex Accel has all at once

. . . or make the good personality be an effective level 0 and not remember what the other one does while the evil version goes on a crime spree, that would keep suspicion off of them.

Either way, it's hard to make multiple personality disorder characters boring in an action series.

I just thought it would be unlikely to see that sort of thing because of the light novel version of Angel Fall already having someone like that who unfortunately didn't happen to be an esper or magician...

[Doom_Paperclip]

Actually, Academy City is already way ahead of all of you:

Originally Posted by Volume OT4

(Split personality…that’s right, the summer remedial did mention about espers with split personality…)

Kamijou casually watched the TV as he thought. In this so-called split personality, the line between personality A and personality B wasn't always clear. In some cases, there could be instances of both personalities appearing at the same time, like for example, the left and right hands were respectively commanded by different personalities, or when personality A was thinking, personality B was moving the hands.

—The above knowledge was what Kamijou had learned from the summer remedial a week ago. Komoe-sensei had said that there was a lot of data regarding those with split personalities, because there was a time where it was popular to research on people with split personalities to see whether they could have two different abilities.

It isn't outright stated that the research failed, but from the fact that to this day Dual Skills are still considered impossible despite this research having occurred, we can infer that not even split personalities can allow an Esper to use two different abilities. Only Takitsubo's evolution into a Level 5 could circumvent this.

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Meh, at this point people who have read me for a good time knows I post from a phone and isn't easy to keep on quoting bit by bit every single part(and sometimes the whole quote with the answer disappears<---this happened various times when talking with derstku... orz), it would be easier with a desktop on home, also from my work place of all places I'll be doomed if busted.

Sorry, I didn't know.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

It isn't outright stated that the research failed, but from the fact that to this day Dual Skills are still considered impossible despite this research having occurred, we can infer that not even split personalities can allow an Esper to use two different abilities. Only Takitsubo's evolution into a Level 5 could circumvent this.

the way i understood that part in vol.22 lets me think that her powers are speculated to be like this...
i mean, the same way ollerus has speculations about IB or amata about accels wings, i believe that since the power of a Lvl5 aim stalker never existed before they can only speculate on her limits

or they are right but the human-part of her limits her abilitys to 80%....
it would be like mikoto, her powers should be able to do far more destruction but her human parts (the limits of her brain) doesnt allow her to reach a higher control/output

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

Actually, Academy City is already way ahead of all of you:



It isn't outright stated that the research failed, but from the fact that to this day Dual Skills are still considered impossible despite this research having occurred, we can infer that not even split personalities can allow an Esper to use two different abilities. Only Takitsubo's evolution into a Level 5 could circumvent this.



Sorry, I didn't know.

I guess you could also say that Rensa is a sort of example of this, but not in the way other people are describing.

Depend on the "user," the powers are used differently, and/or different sorts of powers are selected in combat situations. So you could say that the Misaka Network, the Kakine Network, and the Rensa constructions are all actually further elaborations on this idea that also have a comparison in the...

Spoiler for Railgun manga Daihasesai arc:

level upper network constructed by Gensei.

I just think all of this is going to come to a forefront in the next science arc likely with Takitsubo as you said.

I was just pointing out that I don't expect to see a basic with multiple personality syndrome, being able to use multiskill or dual skill because even after a character appeared in the series who had MPS, Kamachi didn't make him be an esper or magician, which kind of makes me assume that the topic either isn't that interesting, or if we see that topic become important later, it'll be important in some very different, much more complex form, like through the form of Rikou, Rensa, or some other type of esper network.

I mean, even the Railgun five-overs in NT 10 are examples of this sort of thing to a small degree, except that the technology isn't quite there yet. The network is built in a way such that the five-overs share information, but each of them also have their own "actions" when

Spoiler for NT 10:

Mikoto hacks them and controls them individually, and Touma negates some of them.

These are all ultimately constructed around a similar idea, but I feel like all of these different interpretations of the same idea will come to a forefront in the next science arc.

[Inept Forum User]

Several magic-related questions:

• Would it be reasonable to assume that the amount of time necessary for a phase to be deposited naturally would be at least several centuries long?
• Since the Fairy spell uses the downgrading from Christianisation as it's basis, would it be possible to use a spell based on the emergence of Neopaganism afterwards to slightly counteract the effects (but not countering them to a significant extent)?
• Are there any things that people know of which could perhaps be the basis for Kanzaki's asymmetry spell?
• Although there is practically nothing to go on regarding the nature of the dragon that Kanzaki supposedly fought, given what is known from other incidents and circumstances in the Toaru series, what does it seem more likely to have been - a magically-created creature, a spiritual item, a natural being or something else?

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by Inept Forum User

Several magic-related questions:[LIST][*]Would it be reasonable to assume that the amount of time necessary for a phase to be deposited naturally would be at least several centuries long?

It might be the amount of time, or it might be the number of individuals sharing the same beliefs at the origin of said phases. We really don't have enough info to lean one way or another. The oldest example I can think of in regards to phases is how Archangel Michael supposedly cut the Curtana Original, which means Heaven was already a phase at that point (Early Middle Ages?).

[*]Since the Fairy spell uses the downgrading from Christianisation as it's basis, would it be possible to use a spell based on the emergence of Neopaganism afterwards to slightly counter the effects (but not countering them to a significant extent)?

The thing is that, unlike the basis for Turn into a Fairy, Neopaganism is neither widespread, nor influential enough to overturn beliefs like how early Christianity did. In fact, it is rather fringe, with the possible exception of Asatru. A better equivalent would be a spell based on Syncretism, which is much more common.

[*]Are there any things that people know of which could perhaps be the basis for Kanzaki's asymmetry spell?

Someone with much more in-depth knowledge of Eastern beliefs and culture could give you a better answer (and correct my own), but off the top of my head...Feng Shui?