Learning Japanese

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

To be honest, I never bothered learning the pitch accents (because its pretty difficult to do), and have never needed to know them either. I was however, taught (told, and now read, on different occasions) that a structure to distinguish words with pitch accents exists within the language. Even if its not used that much, it is there as a legitimate, documented part of the language. I don't think its archaic either, the few people (IMPE living there as well) I talked to about this did tell me that this was the way you would differentiate between words.

I am far from convinced... it sounds more like personal opinions in obsolete matters. Then again my interest in linguistics is amateurish, empirical, and statistical... those old men that make money out of it (pretending to have some deeper insight in the matter) probably should disagree

In any case, on my practical side, I was discussing the writings, pronunciations and uses of yasui(s) with a couple of friends from Kyuushuu and another from Kansai recently that enforced my current understanding, and crushed my hopes for the existence of some logic rule behind homophones in Japanese, or at least how Japanese are normally used in order to be understood by the native speakers and not how complicated they can be made in order to promoted social stratification

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by Avatar of Dreams

When in doubt ask the natives:
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp...l/q12107106602

So far I'm getting an overwhelming 'no' on the whole 易しい人 = 'promiscuous' thing.

The reference source for Denshi Jisho seems to be based on a website with similar characteristics as wikipedia, namely, anyone can edit the definitions.
My guess is that someone misunderstood the meaning and wrote an incorrect definition.

Might've just been a different word I'm recalling altogether then.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by Avatar of Dreams

When in doubt ask the natives:
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp...l/q12107106602

So far I'm getting an overwhelming 'no' on the whole 易しい人 = 'promiscuous' thing.

The reference source for Denshi Jisho seems to be based on a website with similar characteristics as wikipedia, namely, anyone can edit the definitions.
My guess is that someone misunderstood the meaning and wrote an incorrect definition.

I agree with using "chiebukuro", especially when 'cultural colloquialism' is suspected. While it is not a 100% given to have accurate or definitely right answers (since anyone can answer), one can attract quite quality (and sometimes backed-up) posts, especially when 'chi' is offered

I have found it quite useful myself when I can't get hold of my pals on IM.

Incidentally, one of my native Skype pals gave 'nay' as the answer as well. Mainly because 易しい人 appears to be misuse of 易しい to her.

[Seitsuki]

I think it's simply an English problem. 易しい = easy > 易しい人 really should be something like an 'easygoing/easy person to get along with', but due to 'easy' also having the colloquial meaning of 'promiscuous' in some parts... well, one thing leads to another.

[Haiprbim]

"thank you = arigato
Pleased to meet you = Yoroshiku"

Well, I say Arigatou and Yoroshiku-ne all the time, so... :P

[Malkuth]

I am pretty certain that "yasui hito" is referring to a girl that is easy for anyone to "sleep" with... I should have completely missed everything said in a discussion with natives, in order to be wrong about this one... possible, yet unlikely, since I was really paying a lot of attention at the time for personal reasons

[Avatar of Dreams]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

I am pretty certain that "yasui hito" is referring to a girl that is easy for anyone to "sleep" with... I should have completely missed everything said in a discussion with natives, in order to be wrong about this one... possible, yet unlikely, since I was really paying a lot of attention at the time for personal reasons

Ah, you're right! It doesn't necessarily mean promiscuous but it can be used that way. Now it makes a lot more sense.

Someone probably made the mistake of going:
安い → 易い → 易しい

Thank you for the help Malkuth!
お前は何でも知ってるな…

[Malkuth]

Glad to help...

[rant-mode]

... but let me add that 安いー＞易（し）い（＋優しい）人 can be used potentially for very similar circumstances, one indicating that it's easy to "do" the said person, while the other that the person in question isn't particularly picky about his/her partners, plus there is the not yet mentioned case of someone receiving such lewd request kinder then usual and unfortunately both are not literal uses... so except form sounding similar, sharing the homophone kanji and some of the adjectival endings; the person used for usually can potentially share all these attributes

But as with all languages, a context is the key to understanding, followed by clarification inquiries is the way to communicate correctly; definitely not those definitions that old geezers and hags get paid for and ask us in language exams... oh! and let's not forget that 99% of humans don't care about such differences, since outside unproductive language tutoring fads, even if one uses the "wrong" one, everyone will understand the point, unless he is a grammar/accent/pronunciation/kanji-nazi, in which case he doesn't want to

[/rant-mode]

PS: I just remembered, LINDA published a story about a decade ago using the above kanji in its title as a wordplay

[AmeNoJaku]

Let me change the subject, since this discussion about "easy people" seems clarified, if not strangely referenced.

Japanese language has a lot of verbs (used literally and metaphorically) for having sex (particularly non-consensual), but what about making love? You know the romantic variety that is the case 99,...% IRL. Unfortunately, anime, manga and doujinshi are not very helpful in the matter, and it's the kind of question that is very hard to ask in person

[erneiz_hyde]

Not sure I understand the question, so are you asking about the euphemisms the Japanese use when referring to consensual sex?

I can only think of 抱く(daku) for now.

[Seitsuki]

I'm pretty sure しますalso works. Like,　'しよう'. I've seen it used quite a bit in yuri, which is some of the the sweetest stuff known to man.

Or I dunno, やらないか

[Gundamx]

Anyone here manage to solo Japanese language?

[Solafighter]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Anyone here manage to solo Japanese language?

Not sure, what exactly you mean by "solo", but I basicly learn Japanese on my own, just with a couple of books and more various infos out of the internet. Though, watching Japanese series helps you to listen to the language and helps you to pronounce it right. Also, I often talk with some of my Japanese friends. They don't teach me directly, but this talking helps me to get more fluend with the stuff, I have learnt so far.

Not sure, if one can call that "solo" by summing all that up.

[Hooves]

I'm basically reading through this entire thread just to learn it. So it's impossible for me to 'solo' it if that's what you're referring to.

[Solafighter]

I think in the theory, it might be possible to solo it, though it might not be as efficient and time sparing.

To not drift away from the main topic, I made myself some verb- and adjective conjugation sheets. I will print them out and hang them right next to me on the wall, so that I can take a look at it again, if needed. Maybe it is easier to have things simple to burn them into your mind.

If you find any mistake in there, please let me know. I just put this sheet up out of my mind, but roughly checked it after. Feel free to use them as you wish. I'm aware, that they might not be complete with a little bit of missing content, especially on the tenses paper. I made these to have a good overview, how it is done.

If you don't understand these, then please don't use them. The first and main reason I made them was for myself(yea, me unsocial bastard) but I thought "Hey, why not sharing these".

Adjective Conjugation (image on imgur.com)


Verb Conjugation (image on imgur.com)
This might need a short explaination: Besides the irregular verbs, there are three verb types. Behind the "examples:" is one example for each verb type. The rest should speak for itself.

Tenses (image on imgur.com)
This is mostly focusing on the right endings. You have verbs, which are ending with certain letters(Hiragana). These can be put in groups, as shown on the sheet. You then have replace the left Hiragana from the arrow with the Hiragana, which is on the right of the arrow. Example: Biru wo nomu(ビールをのむ). Mu is the Hiragana, we want to change. So in the past, it is Biru wo nonda(ビールをのんだ). You anyway should look this up and do a lot of examples.

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Solafighter

If you find any mistake in there, please let me know. I just put this sheet up out of my mind, but roughly checked it after. Feel free to use them as you wish. I'm aware, that they might not be complete with a little bit of missing content, especially on the tenses paper. I made these to have a good overview, how it is done.

Adjective Conjugation (image on imgur.com)

It's pretty basic, but I have a few points here:

• First, you seem to have misspelled しろい as "しるい"
• You seem to treat く as part of the entire ending, rather than a particular (in this case, adverbial) ending for the stem. It's worth having that separately, since it's used quite a bit. Same thing for に on the な adjective side.
• "〜くありません", while correct, is less common and quite formal. Many people nowadays would say "〜くないです" and "〜くなかったです", so it might not hurt to have that in there.

Tenses (image on imgur.com)
This is mostly focusing on the right endings. You have verbs, which are ending with certain letters(Hiragana). These can be put in groups, as shown on the sheet. You then have replace the left Hiragana from the arrow with the Hiragana, which is on the right of the arrow. Example: Biru wo nomu(ビルをのむ). Mu is the Hiragana, we want to change. So in the past, it is Biru wo nonda(ビルをのんだ). You anyway should look this up and do a lot of examples.

You drink buildings?!

[Solafighter]

I forgot the ー.　＞　ビール. My bad.

I will take a look at them, when I'm at home. Thanks a lot.

[Gundamx]

By solo > I mean to study it by yourself ( without university/teacher help )
+
here picture I used too keep on my desktop

Spoiler for large:

[AmeNoJaku]

It would help if you buy (or illegally download) those books (Genki series for introductory/elementary Japanese)... nevertheless let me put it this way... when learning anything from a language to quantum mechanics to financial thievery it's more efficient to get the basics from a more experienced person (be it a teacher, friend, etc.), then study by yourself, until you reach some level of mastery (e.g. JLPT/N1 exam), when a specialist can guide you through it again... On the other hand if you want to use in real life a language skip all the official exams and textbooks and hang around with locals, watch films and read books... it works a lot better then the money-leeching systems each country (including Japan) have set up to certify our waste of time



In between the most encouraging note ever

EDIT: I wish that Americans, French and Germans (probably more) could show a similar appreciation to the time and effort that it takes to learn their languages, like Japanese, Koreans and Chinese

[Solafighter]

Besides Kanjis, are you guys learning all the 200 radicals? I actually started learning about 50 Kanjis already, before even knowing about radicals. I read, that it is easier to identify the kanjis that way, though it is much more to remember.

Example:

丶

てん ・ ちょぼ ・ ちゅ ・ ちゅてん

dot