Suisei no Gargantia - generic discussion thread

[Rias]

Pretty straightforward episode - did Urobuchi Gen actually upheld his twitter post about not going overboard with killing? I'm finding episode 3 to be kinda meh, when compared to the last 2 episodes. Perhaps it would've been better if Urobuchi Gen actually is the screenwriter for all the episodes instead of just the first and last episode. Usually dark settings and Robot shows meshes up so well...

Well, still one of the more interesting show of this season.

[Iron Maw]

My biggest fear about Chamber running out of power is him/it dying. I don't mind the show making him/it less overpowered.

I also think it's best Ledo learned to speak to the Gargantians directly as he's beginning to do now. That would go a long way to building making everyone feel at ease with him.

[SagaraSouske]

I think with the capability that was displayed in Ep1, and 2, Chamber could have simply vaporized all weapons the pirates have even if he adopt a non lethal approach, at the minimum he can take out all the cannons on each and every ship with reflector beam. The fact that he has to rip stuff off physically and smash thing is already inconsistent with his tech level, not to mention not detecting the submarine. Realistically, Chamber would have intercept the pirate fleet way off from Gargantia and just vaporize all their offensive capabilities. That would be enough of an overwhelming display of power to convince even Lukkage that this is one mech that she cannot mess with.

I don't think the philosophy that values human life in this society is an issue but rather their thought process after witnessing what Chamber can do is strange. You have a faction on the ship council that even thought about getting rid of chamber and Ledo 'after' their display of might in eps 2 in front of them.

[mikeomni]

Originally Posted by Dop

What they showed in this episode is that they could defeat the pirates, but they did that with minimum loss of life. The pirates will think twice about attacking Gargantia again, but there was no mass murder.

I do not think the pirate's defeat would be a deterrent. Quite the opposite, it would be fuel for further conflict. A good number of vessels were destroyed in episode #2, and they were not fazed. Given, they didn't give credence to how thoroughly Ledo destroyed that fleet. But in episode #3, Ledo did not use this ability to demonstrate the imbalance in power either. He had a fancy Yomboroid that can fly, damage turrets on ships and stop two speed boats. Except for flying and having more horsepower than two boats he hasn't quite done enough to incite fear to dissuade pirates from further attacks. Their way of life is now in jeopardy if they cannot reestablish their position at the top of the food chain.

The Gargantian's are attempting to return to the status quo but I think this will fail. Since Chamber was limited by the ROE, those burning pirate vessels will likely be back in commission. The pirate problem did not go away, just delayed it. And surviving to live another day tends to 'embolden the enemy' rather than the other way around. Giving up only works if you have other alternatives. A pirates reputation has to be upheld otherwise it encourages potential victims to resist more strenuously in the future. Probably the only good way out for the Gargantian's is to offer a sacrifice, which the Fleet Commander almost did, though he failed because Ledo succeeded. Quite an irony.

As for that ROE of "no human casualties." Logically speaking, the reason Ledo accepted the ROE was probably because he wasn't personally threatened by it. Chamber can survive in space and wormholes afterall. That space suit he's wearing is probably pretty tough as well. And as long as Gargantia overall survived he still had an ally he can use long term. It's still flawed logic though. He comes out of Chamber and takes off his helmet regularly. Unless he can distinguish a pirate from a Gargantian a well place bullet or even fork to the neck is going to be worrisome.

[joshuafaramir]

Chamber probably recharges using solar power...

But with the lack of solar panels... uhh, who am I kidding, this robot is from the future.

[ThereminVox]

Well, we pretty much knew how this was going to go. Though I'll confess, I did not call the appearance of a Giant Submersible Spiderman Lobstermech.

Is that ChouCho singing the ED? No wonder it sounds so great. With Minori Chihara delivering the OP, that's one hell of a one-two punch. Seriously, though, I would pay real money right now for that ED. Been looping it for the better part of the evening.

If there's one thing that sort of impresses me about the Gargantia bigwigs, it's that there doesn't seem to be any one "Evil Vizier" among them whose initial inclination is to manipulate Ledo and Chamber to vaporize anyone who refuses to KNEEL BEFORE ZOD. Given the current state of humanity on Earth, Ledo's tentative allegiance and the pirate's preoccupation with credibility, deescalation really made sense. More importantly, it gave Ledo his first opportunity to witness a situation where such an outcome was possible. He isn't used to considering the long-term pseudo-political ramifications of tangling with space snails. He takes it in stride, all things considered. Kudos to Amy too for not taking too long after her initial horror to realize why he did what he did in episode 2.

I'm kind of fascinated by the social norms that have sprung up in Gargantia's world, where barter is so important that even piracy is looked upon as a form of negotiation, albeit an illegitimate, criminal one. Ledo comes from a world where even gratitude is a strange concept, not for lack of manners, but because pretty much any action that benefits another human is tactically advantageous. Not necessarily so on Earth.

[kuroishinigami]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Ledo's Machine Caliber landed on submerged ruins and, as far as we know, seawater didn't cause much damage to the mecha; after all, Chamber mentioned nothing of the sort during his wakeup SITREP. It is true the MC was in "sleep mode" and thus probably minimized the risks of malfunction upon contact with a different atmosphere/medium (i.e. oceans), but the MCs were obviously built to be extremely resilient, as they were expressly designed to maneuver through one of the most hostile environments Man has ever stepped in, space. Let's not also forget that the darned machine survived atmospheric reentry, splashdown in the middle of the ocean and a 6-month (or less) stay in a highly cold, saline environment. I'm willing to bet the MC is capable of operating underwater.

Ah yes, I forgot that Ledo was salvaged from underwater. That still leaves the question whether the MC will be able to fly out the viscosity of water though, after all, survivability is not the same as maneuverability. Maybe it will become a piece of scrap metal underwater?(unlikely, but still an interesting idea to explore)

[Xion Valkyrie]

Huh, so those slave girls didn't need rescuing after all. Also, I'm glad there wasn't some overt moralizing tone that the Gargantia people took with Ledo's senmeitsu.

The way the pirate queen was set up and used this episode makes it feel like she's not going to be a major antagonist after all. So the plot will probably move back towards the space/aliens soon.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

I'm kind of fascinated by the social norms that have sprung up in Gargantia's world, where barter is so important that even piracy is looked upon as a form of negotiation, albeit an illegitimate, criminal one. Ledo comes from a world where even gratitude is a strange concept, not for lack of manners, but because pretty much any action that benefits another human is tactically advantageous. Not necessarily so on Earth.

It's curious, that. If resources are scarce, I can see a situation where people would be more willing to kill each other. If the population is low, then they might not be willing to kill each other. Here, so far, it seems that both resources and the population are scarce, which would lead to things like ritualized warfare... somewhat like what we have here.

However, they're not sending out a champion to fight another champion, the results of which lead to supplies/people changing hands. They're shooting at each other with naval cannon... and Lukkage was willing to sacrifice an entire fleet for a shot at the Gargantia's leader? Under normal circumstances (in other words, not Chamber swearing to not kill anyone), that loss would represent both significant loss of life and material.

[OpenDoors]

There was an idea raised by T-Man in the comment section of RandomC

Spoiler for credit and link:

http://randomc.net/2013/04/21/suisei-no-gargantia-03/comment-page-1/#comment-965399

that the world of Gargantia is much closer to the nomads where allegiances change frequently and raids between different groups happen but generally does not escalate to destroying everyone on the opposing side.

Also, in episode 2 Amy described how it really just take two willing ships to band together to form a new "fleet" and that people come and go all the time. Based on the crew of Gargantia's response on the number of ships in the pirate fleet, it is likely that pirate fleets also come and go. They only come together under a charismatic leader to face the enigmatic Chamber.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie

The way the pirate queen was set up and used this episode makes it feel like she's not going to be a major antagonist after all. So the plot will probably move back towards the space/aliens soon.

Well I certainly hope not because she was a joke of an antagonist.

[kk2extreme]

The only true antagonist are the space flowers...

[Iron Maw]

Except they may not even show up.

[Xion Valkyrie]

Knowing Gen, they'll definitely show up.

[sikvod00]

Yep. I'm definitely referring to them as space flowers from now on.

[Kirarakim]

Personally I think the true antagonist is going be Avalon.

The Space Flowers are probably just misunderstood cuddly aliens.

[FlareKnight]

Overall, I enjoyed the episode. Almost nice to just have the characters sit down (almost literally) and discuss their different points of view here. Does make you think about what humanity has lost after going to space and being caught up in its grand war that "thank you" is a foreign concept.

It's a tough spot for Gargantia. Just disabling the pirates and driving them away probably won't solve all their problems. But engaging in a massacre isn't exactly to everyone's tastes either. Even if you obliterate this group, it may not end until you've killed a whole lot of people.

Is nice that Ledo actually learned how to say thanks himself. If he can start to figure out the language that would improve things. Easier to get a long with someone you can talk to rather than having to go through the mech as a translator.

Some good fun when he sent the pirate and her lackeys flying at the end . It might not have been a bad plan to drag him down into the water where they might have had a better chance, but the power difference was too great. No chance dragging Ledo and Chamber into the ocean .

[Raviel]

I've always thought of them as what would happen if a flower and a sea creature got really drunk one night on a planet with a lethal mutating radiation spewing star.

[andyjay729]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Personally I think the true antagonists are going be Avalon.

That's my main theory, actually. The pirates may even join up with them when they arrive and decide to conquer Earth and enslave the remaining people.

Hmm, do you think the pirate queen may eventually have a role similar to Kyoko Sakura? (Starts out as a sociopathic antagonist, just trying to survive in a brutal world, maybe sacrifices herself to stop or delay the Human Alliance.)

On a lighter note, wouldn't it be cool if someone made an AMV with this song? (I'm sorry, but I just can't help but hear this in my head when I see "modern pirates" in speedboats.)

[s2012k1993]

Originally Posted by Anh Minh

Oh, and think about your "balance". The Gargantians are afraid of an all-out fight. The pirates aren't. The Gargantians have weapons to mitigate the pirates' damage. The logical move for the pirates is thus to confiscate all the weapons, either under threat of an all out war and after winning said war.

I agree that logic dictates that the pirates should have stripped Gargantia off their weapons a long time ago. But I also feel like Gen Urobuchi is trying to set up as contrast the wars on Earth with the wars in space i.e. space exhibits cold logic, earth is more human. Now I am just speculating, but I think something like mutual respect and pride for Lukkage and Fearokk kept things in balance. In the episode, it seemed to be as though the two knew each other personally.