2009-10-20, 11:11 | Link #2481 |
I desire Tomorrow!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: As far away from reality as possible
Age: 41
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It's not the first time a "top" warrior/assassin/whatever lets his guard down due to having mellowed down and gets killed when he could own the world otherwise.
Spoiler for major Claymore spoiler:
In short, no matter how badass you are/were, not only will there appear someone better eventually, but being all lovey-dovey and living peacefully will eventually cause you to lower your guard. If your emenies didn't give up and were still seeking your head, that's the time you'll end up dead.
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Last edited by npal; 2009-10-21 at 06:53. Reason: failed at spelling :p |
2009-10-21, 03:15 | Link #2482 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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I can't think of any reason why one would've wanted the former rather than the later, other than intense hatedom for Reiji and Elen. And you would have to hate them a lot if you'd rather they die than work to help others. It's either that or just not caring what happens to them either way.
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2009-10-21, 04:36 | Link #2483 | |
Koh nara dekiru!!!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
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Really, I have no idea why people can't accept this ending. This isn't Code Geass with all it's crazy twists and turns... |
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2009-10-21, 06:23 | Link #2484 | ||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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2009-10-21, 08:33 | Link #2485 |
Koh nara dekiru!!!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
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Seriously???
Phantom ~ REQUIEM for the Phantom ~ ... How many times did they go on and on with their emo speeches about life/the world. The title of the first opening song is KARMA . The second ending song starts with Ein saying they are Phantom and can't exist anywhere. Hell, the lyrics are pretty spot on as well. Did we even watch the same show? As for the twist thing, I was making a point that people could dispute the Code Geass ending because that show had so many twists and turns, a mind fuck ending where C.C. addresses Lulu could be interpreted as him being the cart-driver during the end of R2. But that isn't the case with Phantom, the overall tone of the show is dark and grim... and thus the ending fit perfectly. |
2009-10-21, 08:47 | Link #2486 | ||||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Yes, Requiem for the PHANTOM. Reiji and Elen wouldn't really be Phantoms in the Karmic ending I suggested.
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Seriously, though, ending themes don't count. They could've easily just replaced it with another ending theme and it would've still worked. Quote:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DownerEnding "2. A similarly low-key or unhappy ending to an episode of a normally "happy" series."
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2009-10-21, 09:04 | Link #2487 | |
I desire Tomorrow!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: As far away from reality as possible
Age: 41
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Quote:
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2009-10-21, 09:22 | Link #2488 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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2009-10-21, 09:49 | Link #2489 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Then that would be adding an element to there character no there in the beginning with the express purpose of giving them a way out of death. They could have easily done the same for Claudia and Cal too if they in fact wanted them to live. Then in the end we can see them all running carefree through a sea of dandelions. This however loses the impact of the show being a tragedy. Blame the Greeks for inventing the genre otherwise characters like Romeo and Juliet would all end up living happily ever after. Unfortunately happy ending aren't mandatory especially in this type of show.
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2009-10-21, 09:51 | Link #2490 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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2009-10-21, 10:01 | Link #2491 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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2009-10-21, 10:07 | Link #2492 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Those tragic deaths were because of karma. I think that was the theme of the show. But like I said, the ending I suggested would've been equally karmic. The only reason the others got deaths was because they didn't try to escape. But Reiji and Elen did. It would've still been fitting.
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2009-10-21, 10:21 | Link #2493 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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2009-10-21, 10:26 | Link #2494 | |
Natural Born Killer
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Roanapur
Age: 32
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Quote:
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2009-10-21, 11:15 | Link #2495 |
I desire Tomorrow!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: As far away from reality as possible
Age: 41
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I think some people are greatly misusing the DeM device in this argument. I'm not sure whether it's deliberate or people aren't aware of what a DeM is.
Inferno never seeking them again, that would have been the ridiculous issue. If you're the mafia, letting TWO individuals mess up your entire organization and not doing anything about it is really bad for business. They were obviously going to keep tracking them. I didn't see MacGuire's last speech implying anything about letting them off the hook. Giving them enough space to feel safe is a surefire way to create an opening, which they did, and finally got them. That this rather common and obligatory underworld tactic becomes the deliverer of retribution at that particular time furthermore enhances the themes of the story. The "they escaped, other didn't try" part. Well, the others got killed in sorrow (ok, Cal's on the fence for me on this one so I don't really count her for my argument), Reiji and Elen were killed after getting that one thing they sought. That's difference enough. The assassin that killed them didn't come out of nowhere. Even if there wasn't an organization like Inferno to hunt them down, the fact is they made a lot of enemies through Inferno, and they'd be more than enough people to go after their heads. Not having them named explicitly hardly removes them from the grand picture. Even if it was stated that NO ONE that was after them in the end, the series is based on tragedy, accumulating guilt, karma, making explicit statements about "phantoms" being nothing (like stop existing) when they stop being "phantoms", and having NUMEROUS examples (Cal, Clau, Lizie, etc) of how the burden of sins catches up to the individual. Based on that, expecting them to tragically die by ANYTHING, especially considering that they never ONCE in the series sought any form of atomenent, is pretty much reasonable and warranted.
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Last edited by npal; 2009-10-21 at 11:34. |
2009-10-21, 11:36 | Link #2496 | |
Natural Born Killer
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Roanapur
Age: 32
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Huh? LOL? Atonement? ROFLMAO! Ah...that was hilarious.
Is this the Meiji era? Should they go around the world helping poor or something? How should they atone? By continuing to kill people? I don't get your point where in all your posts you keep saying it was "karma" and that a "happy ending" would have never occured but then you bring up something like "atonement"? Wtf is this, a shounen manga? LOL! If I were suffering and forced to kill people by the last 3 years, why the hell would I want to continue suffer? I would have expected it if there was some kind of hero in this story but there wasn't. How can he atone for killing people? Construct a resurrection device so he can bring the dead back to the living? If it was me, I'd just live a normal life and forget about the past and all that suffering I ever faced. Quote:
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2009-10-21, 12:00 | Link #2497 | |
I desire Tomorrow!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: As far away from reality as possible
Age: 41
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2009-10-21, 12:08 | Link #2500 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Whether you would return to a normal life to forget about your past and all the suffering you faced doesn't make all suffering you caused any less real. Their past caught up with them as it does with most people. Life sucks. If this was Shounen, then the power of love and forgiveness would make everything better. Perhaps it is you who are confused about what kind of show this is.
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Tags |
action, eroge, gunfights, seinen |
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