Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Yeah, I am not a fan of this episode. I have already read the manga version of this episode long ago and already knew what this episode contained, but the thing that I disliked the most is how hard this episode is trying to sell Raphtalia as the perfect waifu.

Not only is she sooo good that she as a kid (she still is one no matter how she looks) was the one to try and rally her village (because on anime land adults never now how to do anything), but apparently she is also above getting revenge on a piece of shit that deserves it (this is without mentioning how they keep making her backstory even more bleak the more they show of it to make us care about her. We get it, she had it bad, no need to over do it).

Same here, but I didn't read the manga. I did not dislike it, but certainly the part where she stood up making that speech for to her village was a bit eye-rolling. Also her magnanimity toward her and her friends torturer felt forced. Surely I assumed the story told in the episode was just bits, removed from most of the brutality. So for Raphtalia's feeling to kill him would have been natural and very very difficult to die out.

On the other hand the episode helped Melty to have a deeper look into her country, the country she is supposed to reign in the future. If she was kinda reluctant before, now I think she got hit hard to make her grow up and see what the real state of her country.

BTW, the other countries are of demi-humans, so why in the hell demi-humans keeps living in this country. On the other hand they could build their own village. It' like their condition was not so oppressed before the waves. This is a bit confusing.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Arya

BTW, the other countries are of demi-humans, so why in the hell demi-humans keeps living in this country. On the other hand they could build their own village. It' like their condition was not so oppressed before the waves. This is a bit confusing.

We repeatedly shown some banner being trampled. And they where expecting relief from capital. Think they where living in different country.

[Dengar]

The lord who ruled over the part where the demi humans lived was sympathetic to them and apparently had enough clout to keep them safe. He died during the first wave. I thought they explained this. Maybe it was too much of an offhand remark that it didn't register?

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Dengar

The lord who ruled over the part where the demi humans lived was sympathetic to them and apparently had enough clout to keep them safe. He died during the first wave. I thought they explained this. Maybe it was too much of an offhand remark that it didn't register?

ah, you are right, I clearly missed the part about the late lord being Raphtalia's and ... I for some reasons I didn't even connect the dots.

[maximilianjenus]

I too would have liked it better if raphtalia killed ido; but I keep on thinking that would not be consistent with the anime's effort on making naofumi and his group look better.

Originally Posted by frodonk

As much as I would like to see where the plot will go to answer your questions I think even the source material hasn't touched upon these questions yet, (maybe) therefore it will never be answered in the anime

An educated guess can be made with the info we already have in the anime, but it's a shot in the dark ; the WN does explain exactly what happened; don't know about the LN.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Arya

BTW, the other countries are of demi-humans, so why in the hell demi-humans keeps living in this country. On the other hand they could build their own village. It' like their condition was not so oppressed before the waves. This is a bit confusing.

Why didn't all the Africans move to the North? It's not as easy as you'd think.

[The Green One]

For me trying to make Raphatalia a bundle of purity and goodness by not making her kill or seriously hurt her tormentor seems far too hamfisted to me. It just doesn't feel realistic with how a person would act in this situation. I mean he tortured her, he tortured her best friend to the point where she slowly got sicker and died, he tortured her other friend Keel, he's clearly an unrepentant asshole who tried to attack her and the others at first opportunity, he was going to hurt Melty, his ruler to be. I mean christ this isn't a person you can sternly wag your finger at and tell them not to do it again. Sometimes a person just needs to be put down. Doing things in the show to prevent Raphatalia from being "tainted" in the eyes of viewers really gives the Suspension of Disbelief a hit for me.

[HandofFate]

don't have a problem with her not killing him and just having it be an act of self-defense instead.

revenge not being good is a theme that's in about every anime, but in western movies, like every other film is a revenge film so maybe different views lol.

[BWTraveller]

Hard to say for me. I mean, for all of that, he's still a human. She can't help but see that he's a person; a horrible person, but a person nonetheless. Killing a person can be incredibly difficult for many, even with a backstory like that. In fact, it might be more common for a person to stop and hold back rather than make the kill, at least the first time. And seriously this is nothing new and hardly something so out of left-field to be derided as an over-the-top attempt at making her seem "so pure". I'm pretty sure around 80-90% of stories have people in these situations stop their blade and refuse to kill the person after they cease to be a clear and immediate threat, often with the same reasoning that doing so would be stooping to their level or otherwise compromising their own sense of right and wrong. As horrible as they made Idol, Raphtalia's refusal to kill him did not in my opinion seem in any way outside of predictable behavior.

[HandofFate]

At first she was fine attacking balloons, but hesitated at killing a warm blooded actual anime.

is this the first time she's confronted about killing a human that's at her mercy though?

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

At first she was fine attacking balloons, but hesitated at killing a warm blooded actual anime.

is this the first time she's confronted about killing a human that's at her mercy though?

I think the only other time she's actually fought any humans (not counting Glass) was those knights that were sent to assassinate Melty, and they had to doctor the footage to make it look like she was going for lethal blows.

[Ichinotachi]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

don't have a problem with her not killing him and just having it be an act of self-defense instead.

revenge not being good is a theme that's in about every anime, but in western movies, like every other film is a revenge film so maybe different views lol.

Pretty much this, a lot of people is just overreacting here about the change when we got for 14 episodes a Raphtalia acting as the voice of reason and good will while Naofumi goes into multiple meltdowns due to the harassment and injustice coming from everyone. Using the scene from the WN should've changed the image of raphtalia used in the anime, instead this change is just keeping that and still reaching the same point because on every version the bad guy died in the exact same way.

[PGilis]

Many people are treating like Raphtalia forgave Idol for all the cruel things he did to her and her people, like she would let him go free. I don't think that's the case.

She said he would pay for all his crimes. And remember, not only he tortured and killed many innocent demihumans - something the queen of Melromarc don't see with good eyes, but he also has beaten a fellow noble and - worst of all - has threaten and tried to kill Melty, the 2nd princess and future queen of the country, someone even his former comrade the king loves dearly.

There's no way he would keep his head on his neck for this ofense. Raphtalia and probably he too knew this.

[Top Sergeant]

I love Raphtalia. How they portrayed her story and bacjground was sorrowful but beautifully done. I especially appreciated how she recovered the remains of her friend and took them out of that horrible dungeon.

However I hated what the writers did to her in this episode. "I have killed someone" Wait a minute, what the heck has she been doing for a dozen episodes? Killing things! With all the ambushes and attacks by human men at arms recently at least a few had to have gotten slain. And even in the end the writers had to whitewash Raphtalia by having Idol alive and have a monster finally kill him. It is beyond reasonable credulity for Raphtalia, who has been trained to be a warrior by harsh methods, forced to overcome her distaste for blood, who has repeatedly taken lives, to not strike down a person that she knows, not guesses but absolutely knows with every fiber of her soul, is a man who is an absolute mortal threat to Naofumi, Melty and herself; in fact she absolutely knows Idol would gleefully torture them all.

Then the writers gave her the line "I won't be like you". Argh, no, Raphtalia, even if you cut his head off and roll his corpse into a ditch you could never be like him, someone who kills for sadistic pleasure. There is no possibility of any equivalency there and to even suggest it is ridiculous.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

At first she was fine attacking balloons, but hesitated at killing a warm blooded actual anime.

is this the first time she's confronted about killing a human that's at her mercy though?

I forgot about that. Yeah, Raphtalia doesn't like to kill, particularly when it's a living being. It's reasonable to expect that it's far more of a problem when dealing with actual people, vs animals or just monsters (though she has become accustomed to both, as seen with the silverback boar). She has never actually killed a human (or demi-human).

Originally Posted by PGilis

Many people are treating like Raphtalia forgave Idol for all the cruel things he did to her and her people, like she would let him go free. I don't think that's the case.

She said he would pay for all his crimes. And remember, not only he tortured and killed many innocent demihumans - something the queen of Melromarc don't see with good eyes, but he also has beaten a fellow noble and - worst of all - has threaten and tried to kill Melty, the 2nd princess and future queen of the country, someone even his former comrade the king loves dearly.

There's no way he would keep his head on his neck for this ofense. Raphtalia and probably he too knew this.

And this even more so. When you consider it, Idol's entire life just crumbled at that moment. Someone like him undoubtedly has plenty of enemies among the nobility who will be happy to throw him under the bus (with Reichnott being first in line). Add to that the threats against Melty, and the Queen will probably happily drop him into a wood chipper. Essentially, there's a ton of people that would want a piece of him, and that fact alone means that Raphtalia killing him right then would be almost merciful. She has won overwhelmingly at that point, without any further effort.

I still wish she had a better line to say, though.

[Wandering Soul]

For me, it's less that Raph wouldn't kill him and more that Naofumi would actually say something that makes her reconsider going through with it. Naofumi doesn't strike me as the type to see Raph as tainted or judge her if she did go through with it.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

For me, it's less that Raph wouldn't kill him and more that Naofumi would actually say something that makes her reconsider going through with it. Naofumi doesn't strike me as the type to see Raph as tainted or judge her if she did go through with it.

I kind of just took it as Naofumi trying to talk Raphtalia down from a path he knew she would probably judge herself harshly for more then he ever would.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

I love Raphtalia. How they portrayed her story and bacjground was sorrowful but beautifully done. I especially appreciated how she recovered the remains of her friend and took them out of that horrible dungeon.

I mean, that is part of this episode. I think it conveys what type of character Raphtalia is pretty well. She's very strong, determined and smiles in the face of adversity. Kick her down, she'll rise back to the top. She values her friends more than anything else, but revenge does not change what already happened. Raphtalia hates Idol with all of her being, but killing him wasn't the best solution if you consider her character.

However I hated what the writers did to her in this episode. "I have killed someone" Wait a minute, what the heck has she been doing for a dozen episodes? Killing things!

Surely there is a difference between killing mindless monsters and killing actual people?

With all the ambushes and attacks by human men at arms recently at least a few had to have gotten slain. And even in the end the writers had to whitewash Raphtalia by having Idol alive and have a monster finally kill him. It is beyond reasonable credulity for Raphtalia, who has been trained to be a warrior by harsh methods, forced to overcome her distaste for blood, who has repeatedly taken lives, to not strike down a person that she knows, not guesses but absolutely knows with every fiber of her soul, is a man who is an absolute mortal threat to Naofumi, Melty and herself; in fact she absolutely knows Idol would gleefully torture them all.

In the LN and manga, he dies the same way as the anime. She did try to kill him in those instances but he fell through the window and was thought to be dead.

I'll repeat again. Anime Raphtalia has not taken a human life. It even shows her using the blunt side of her sword on many altercations with soldiers.

However, she did consider taking Idol's life, but Naofumi's speech gave her time to rethink her decision and calm down. Because she would be killing him out of anger in cold blood(he was disarmed and begging for his life) Raphtalia's intention was to make him pay for his crimes by being turned into a higher authority. It's something Melty could have likely helped with. It may be idealistic on her part, but it fits her character in the anime.

Then the writers gave her the line "I won't be like you". Argh, no, Raphtalia, even if you cut his head off and roll his corpse into a ditch you could never be like him, someone who kills for sadistic pleasure. There is no possibility of any equivalency there and to even suggest it is ridiculous.

I think she said that because to kill him at that very moment would be to kill a defenseless person. He's a massive POS but it doesn't mean Raphtalia needs to stoop to murdering him. I definitely wouldn't blame her if she did, but it's not the only solution to the problem.

[Lukes YGO & WS on YT]

No surprise whatsoever that her friend was dead.

Seen enough anime to already know what was about to happen.

Decent episode I guess.

The ending was pretty cool, badass monster to fight against, next time should be very exciting.

[alex_drian]

Again, what is this shit? Riku Barusak would be dissapointed.