Claymore Chapter 121

[SpiritOfGray]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

4) If Yagi allows for meaningful deaths, because frankly, I don't see the Ghosts winning against even 1 AO without a single casualty and serious injuries among survivors. Plus, Clare isn't there and Miria must be getting to her limits fast now.

Given the way things are going, I would be quite surprised if someone actually dies now. In the past 30+ chapters the Ghosts(as well as average Claymores) have survived seemingly hopeless situations. Now, there is something different about this situation. They aren't showing an ounce of fear against 3 Abyssals. Maybe this just means they've grown a bit, and maybe that's a difference Yagi has been trying to make before he kills someone off, but I can't help but feel times have changed. It's like we are being shown the inner strength of the heroes rather than the uncertainty and helplessness from the past.

[lordshadowisle]

Originally Posted by SpiritOfGray

Given the way things are going, I would be quite surprised if someone actually dies now. In the past 30+ chapters the Ghosts(as well as average Claymores) have survived seemingly hopeless situations. Now, there is something different about this situation. They aren't showing an ounce of fear against 3 Abyssals. Maybe this just means they've grown a bit, and maybe that's a difference Yagi has been trying to make before he kills someone off, but I can't help but feel times have changed. It's like we are being shown the inner strength of the heroes rather than the uncertainty and helplessness from the past.

Interesting point, though not too long ago there was a collective bed shitting due to abyss feeders, Priscilla, Raciela. Now that you've mentioned it, doesn't it seem a bit early to suddenly feel confident against 3 Abyssals?

Furthermore, the last time Helen and Deneve met a Abyssal (RIP Isley), things didn't go quite so well...

[Nixl]

I do not think the Claymores will die, at least not this arc. I have a feeling Yagi intended this to be a good end for the rebellion rather than some grimdark endeavor or at least Miria finding success in saving most if not all her comrades (Miria favoritism pah!). I think they will at least survive long enough to escape.

Originally, I did not think the ghosts could stand a chance against the awakened ZAOs, but with the amount of claymores/ghosts against Hysteria I am starting to think it is possible. Hysteria appears fast, but not like Roxanne or Cassandra in terms of collateral damage. The ghosts have Deneve, Helen, Miria, Ana, the twins, and Dietrich that can at least hold their ground. Furthermore, Cynthia and Yuma will probably heal Audrey, Rachel, etc thus adding more claymores into the fray. Most importantly, Raftela is still alive. All those claymores against Hysteria makes me believe they actually have a chance, but who knows.

[Shiek927]

Entirely agree with you Elandyll - it's almost crazy how many "conditions" their are, if the warriors are going to pull through from this situation; especially if, as you say, the Abyssals do or don't fight eachother. Not to mention, as said before, it depends greatly on the strength of the ZAOS themselves.

At best, and only if the conditions are met, will the warriors have a chance against just one of the ZAOs...that's why I said this is all just too much; the focus should be on distraction and getting as many of the warriors out of there rather then trying to out-fight them.

[Nixl]

I disagree to an extent Shieky, as Claymores I think they will find it their duty to stop any new AOs from emerging even if they have no chance. Consider the battle of Pieta, they knew they were screwed, but they still fought the mass of ABs out of some sense of duty I believe. We have also seen Claire walk into Riful's layer twice for comrades and duty.

Initially, I thought they would retreat to the blob, but now I am trying to consider the possibility that if Roxanne does not have some ace up her sleeve whether the ZAOs could all be defeated on the spot.

[gxy1069]

@nixl

let's hope yagi surprises us this time...though i wouldn't count on ALL of the claymores surviving. someone's gotta die b4 they get out of this mess(just hope its not miria), any guesses on who? *sadistic smile*

[Nixl]

Believe me gxy, I have Tabitha, Deneve/The Human Wedge, and Rachel on my shit list. However, this could be a genuine attempt by Yagi to give the Claymores some peace in their lives. However, he does has a habit of making killing off characters when you would least suspect it (pretty much all the AOs).

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Nixl

I disagree to an extent Shieky, as Claymores I think they will find it their duty to stop any new AOs from emerging even if they have no chance. Consider the battle of Pieta, they knew they were screwed, but they still fought the mass of ABs out of some sense of duty I believe. We have also seen Claire walk into Riful's layer twice for comrades and duty.

Initially, I thought they would retreat to the blob, but now I am trying to consider the possibility that if Roxanne does not have some ace up her sleeve whether the ZAOs could all be defeated on the spot.

.........But that's stupid

Believe me, I get what you're saying, but I hate that way of thinking - that kind of thinking that still undoubtedly stems a bit from the Org's teachings; that the warriors feel like it's their obligation to still kill all Yoma/Awakened Beings/etc and they have no choice but to stay and fight...

That's dumb; almost suicidal drone-thinking. They don't have to fight just for the sake of it - especially when their's bigger things going on like survival to consider. It's one thing if fighting and taking on the Abyssals was the only way out, but to fight them just for the sake of it out of some heroism/altruism or this need to purge the world of all Awakened etc...

I mean really, if that's the true reason why Miria and the warriors stayed at Pieta despite the obvious route of simply leaving en masse...I would be so pissed off -___-.

[gxy1069]

ditto to that

that aside, i wonder what clare and priscilla have been up to...

[Nixl]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

.........But that's stupid

Believe me, I get what you're saying, but I hate that way of thinking - that kind of thinking that still undoubtedly stems a bit from the Org's teachings; that the warriors feel like it's their obligation to still kill all Yoma/Awakened Beings/etc and they have no choice but to stay and fight...

That's dumb; almost suicidal drone-thinking. They don't have to fight just for the sake of it - especially when their's bigger things going on like survival to consider. It's one thing if fighting and taking on the Abyssals was the only way out, but to fight them just for the sake of it out of some heroism/altruism or this need to purge the world of all Awakened etc...

I mean really, if that's the true reason why Miria and the warriors stayed at Pieta despite the obvious route of simply leaving en masse...I would be so pissed off -___-.

I am not sure I would call it dumb, but rather ideological focused. Consider that Claymores have virtually no material or even kin connection with the world anymore and they are in essence on borrowed time (awakening). What else do they have left besides fighting Yoma and comrades? If not altruistic warriors then what? I am not advocating reckless suicide, but ever since Claymore began I do not think the characters followed strict pragmatic guide lines. Just look at Miria in the Slasher's arc. It is easy to say do this or that, but if the lives of Claymores are just one big joke then why not die as one pleases, fighting monsters.

Furthermore, most of the characters in the story are extremely ideologically driven. Claire, Miria, Galatea, Jean, Raki, human Priscilla, Teresa, and so forth really are extremes of certain traits in some respects. Priscilla awakened to protect her notion of justice. Claire became a Claymore willingly. Raki was happily willing to become a human shield and abused by Claire. Jean let herself become impaled to save Claire. Galatea blinded herself and attracted her executioners in order to save Rabona. Dauf let himself become infected to fight Priscilla one last time. Alicia awakened to fight alongside her sister till the end. Rafaela broke her sister's back and merged with her. Miria was prepared to break the iron rule and thus accept death in return. The words practical and pragmatism are not present in these characters' dictionaries.

Most importantly, Miria, perhaps the greatest Care-Bear of all time, OF ALL TIME is present.

[MalakTawus]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

I think I'm giving you the wrong impression Malak - I can understand that the Abyssals, Hysteria anyway, is not going to simply let the warriors pack up and leave...undoubtedly they will, at the very least, have to distract them in an effort to allow the other warriors to escape. What I'm trying to say though, is that "Escape" should be their first priority, not fighting with the Abyssals.

One thing is fighting them to give the others time to flee; it's another to fight them "just because".

Oh,i see.
Than i totally agree with you.
Unless something unpredictable happens and they see a good opportunity to kill off even just one ZAOs (for example if the ZAOs exaust each other fighting between them or if Claire joins the fight),their top priority should be fighting just that much is needed for the survivors to be saved....and after that trying to escape for their lives.

If they manage to escape,than maybe training all the survivors, in the future the ghosts could have a better chance to finally kill the ZAOs once and for all attacking only one at a time,afterall i doubt that even an abyssal could survive against 20-30 warriors at ghosts level,especially if Miata joins the fight and if there is some other "secret diamonds" between the young warriors.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Nixl

I am not sure I would call it dumb, but rather ideological focused. Consider that Claymores have virtually no material or even kin connection with the world anymore and they are in essence on borrowed time (awakening). What else do they have left besides fighting Yoma and comrades? If not altruistic warriors then what? I am not advocating reckless suicide, but ever since Claymore began I do not think the characters followed strict pragmatic guide lines. Just look at Miria in the Slasher's arc. It is easy to say do this or that, but if the lives of Claymores are just one big joke then why not die as one pleases, fighting monsters.

Furthermore, most of the characters in the story are extremely ideologically driven. Claire, Miria, Galatea, Jean, Raki, human Priscilla, Teresa, and so forth really are extremes of certain traits in some respects. Priscilla awakened to protect her notion of justice. Claire became a Claymore willingly. Raki was happily willing to become a human shield and abused by Claire. Jean let herself become impaled to save Claire. Galatea blinded herself and attracted her executioners in order to save Rabona. Dauf let himself become infected to fight Priscilla one last time. Alicia awakened to fight alongside her sister till the end. Rafaela broke her sister's back and merged with her. Miria was prepared to break the iron rule and thus accept death in return. The words practical and pragmatism are not present in these characters' dictionaries.

Most importantly, Miria, perhaps the greatest Care-Bear of all time, OF ALL TIME is present.

Ughh....I can't argue against this....especially that last bit -- regardless if their were even better options or not, we know from Pieta that Miria's survival strategy is "stand and fight", even if the way out is, ya know, that way *points in any direction.

Sheesh, forget Pieta, the fact in itself that Miria went to Staff to begin with is just another example of her flawed overprotection - even if the Ghosts were to punch her, gag her, and throw in the back of the car (kudos to those who remember the joke ), It's very unlikely the other Ghosts will behave any different right now.

Elandyll basically listed out the odds of the warriors which is on the low, to the very low side...yet even still, for better or worse, the Ghosts will undoubtedy stand and fight and, knowing Yagi recently, none of them will die. Essentially, it's a more ridiculous version of Helen/Deneve fighting Isley with now three Abyssals.

Ughhhh.....

[MalakTawus]

Thinking about it there is also the possibility that the ghosts while fighting Histy understand that maybe they can have a concrete chance at killing her....in that case i'd say they could really try to take her down,even if probably they won't end the fight unscathed

Anyway i don't see the ghosts+helpers killing one of the abyssals (just awakened and probably not at full power) as something completely impossible, but differently than Elandyll i don't belive at all that the ghosts can do a partial awakening at all (i the same way Claire did i mean,i know they can use yoki beyond the normal limit).
Personally i belive Histy is too strong for them,but if Yagi do it well i could accept the ghosts winning after an hard battle (with deaths of course).

Also i don't think that Elandyll's list is so improbable (beside the partial awakening....),for example the fact that Roxy and Cassy will fight each other till they are super weak is VERY VERY LIKELY unless one of the two is a lot stronger than the other.
Reason #4 is not even really relevant to the chance of victory tbh......
...and reason #3 is not so improbable since we have already seen that Diet is already well coordinated with the ghosts and even the others weren't bad at all....and the 6 ghosts obviously have godly coordination.

[claremore]

Originally Posted by Nixl

Furthermore, most of the characters in the story are extremely ideologically driven. Claire, Miria, Galatea, Jean, Raki, human Priscilla, Teresa, and so forth really are extremes of certain traits in some respects.

Completely agree. Cassandra is another good example of that (of course the before-ressurrected cassandra )

[Ulquihorror]

Roxanne's arms remind me of the not-so-invincible falcon sword Helen's dad used

[The Based]

Even if it was possible to escape with all the injured claymore what then? Hide in a cave and watch as cities gets ravaged? I'm sure Dietrich would love to see that. If anything now might be the best opportunity. Hysteria is still a "fresh" AB that has yet to even learn basic skills like reverting to human form.

[MalakTawus]

Originally Posted by The Based

Even if it was possible to escape with all the injured claymore what then? Hide in a cave and watch as cities gets ravaged? I'm sure Dietrich would love to see that. If anything now might be the best opportunity. Hysteria is still a "fresh" AB that has yet to even learn basic skills like reverting to human form.

Not necessarily true.
The old abyssals,Agatha,Prissy etc. etc. didn't destroy everything,right?

[Ulquihorror]

they look weak as hell too. Cassandra is the strongest, imo.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by gxy1069

@nixl

let's hope yagi surprises us this time...though i wouldn't count on ALL of the claymores surviving. someone's gotta die b4 they get out of this mess(just hope its not miria), any guesses on who? *sadistic smile*

My guess is that Tabitha, Rachel, Audrey, Dietrich, Anastasia, Nike, and possibly (although i would prefer not) the Twins will die. And probably a bunch of unnamed claymores too. The ones that were attacked when the 3 #1s first appeared.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Thinking about it there is also the possibility that the ghosts while fighting Histy understand that maybe they can have a concrete chance at killing her....in that case i'd say they could really try to take her down,even if probably they won't end the fight unscathed

I believe that the ghosts can kill Hysteria. There is a sword in her throat that could really work to their advantage. If someone could somehow grab that sword just right they could cut off Hysteria's head. At this point because the sword is still in her throat, i really do think that it will happen.

Originally Posted by Ulquihorror

they look weak as hell too. Cassandra is the strongest, imo.

I think that only Hysteria looks weak. IMO Roxanne's form is the coolest out of the 3. However looks can be deceiving, Hysteria could really strong, and Cassandra is surprisingly strong even though she has such a strange form. She evaded all of Roxanne's attacks and was laughing about it. But Roxanne does look strong as well.

Originally Posted by Ulquihorror

Roxanne's arms remind me of the not-so-invincible falcon sword Helen's dad used

What?

[MalakTawus]

I believe that the ghosts can kill Hysteria. There is a sword in her throat that could really work to their advantage. If someone could somehow grab that sword just right they could cut off Hysteria's head. At this point because the sword is still in her throat, i really do think that it will happen.

Nha,i doubt it.
Imo Histy is just playing around with Miria,if you look at the sword's hilt i don't see a valid reason why Histy shouldn't be able to extract the sword very easily.