Fate/stay night Game discussion (Warning: Spoilers)

[anime fan99]

a Question about Saber in her time did Everyone knows she is a woman

[GDB]

No, only Merlin, Gawain, Sir Kay, and possibly Morgan le Fay, Guinevere, and Lancelot.

[Dengar]

Merlin basically placed a curse on her that makes anyone who looks at her not see the obvious.

[Rising Dragon]

I've read nothing to indicate that Gawain and Kay knew.

[GDB]

Per Extra, Gawain appeared to know, since he was a stand-in for Arthur on various diplomatic issues. I forget where it was stated, but Kay knew but was threatened by Merlin not to talk about it. And when Merlin threatens you, you oblige.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by simoneparisi1995

sorry to bother you again :v this is the last message
i found this passage which is repeated on many sites "they drain her Mana but feed on her carnal impulses, drastically increasing her sexual frustration. To curb this aggravation, Zouken frequently instructs Shinji to rape Sakura",this is based on false theories then?last question:can you explain me how the worms work and how they feed on sakura?sorry again

The worms feed off her mana as their source of nutrition. The worms also act as an aphrodisiac making her require the use of semen or blood to calm down which also helps feed the worms inside her because as stated earlier in the game, semen/blood are packed with mana. Zouken has Shinji rape Sakura as a means to break her and prepare her for AM to exert it's influence (however Sakura became too good at shutting out the abuse that it wasn't working which is why he remained inactive the Fate and UBW). Shinji held a deep inferiority complex and a need to exert his "authority" over Sakura. Zouken merely used this to his own ends in his attempt to break Sakura as well as calm the crest worms to keep her going until the time was right.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by GDB

Per Extra, Gawain appeared to know, since he was a stand-in for Arthur on various diplomatic issues. I forget where it was stated, but Kay knew but was threatened by Merlin not to talk about it. And when Merlin threatens you, you oblige.

Haven't played Extra, so I'll take your word for it concerning Gawain. And I have heard that said about Kay, but since no one could provide any sources whatsoever last time I asked about his knowing, I'm still not terribly inclined to believe it.

Lancelot knowing makes sense, since he had the affair with Guinevere, who knew. But, like was said about the concept of half the Round Table being women in disguise would ruin the impact and the twist of King Arthur being a woman, so too would the concept of half the Table knowing the truth of her gender.

[GDB]

Well, it'd only really be three knights. And depending on the interpretation of the Round Table, there could be anywhere from 12 knights to 144.

[Rising Dragon]

Yeah, but you have to admit, it'd still set a bad precedent for the overall Type-MOON lore at large.

[simoneparisi1995]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

The worms feed off her mana as their source of nutrition. The worms also act as an aphrodisiac making her require the use of semen or blood to calm down which also helps feed the worms inside her because as stated earlier in the game, semen/blood are packed with mana. Zouken has Shinji rape Sakura as a means to break her and prepare her for AM to exert it's influence (however Sakura became too good at shutting out the abuse that it wasn't working which is why he remained inactive the Fate and UBW). Shinji held a deep inferiority complex and a need to exert his "authority" over Sakura. Zouken merely used this to his own ends in his attempt to break Sakura as well as calm the crest worms to keep her going until the time was right.

ty perfect explanation

[DragoZERO]

Why'd we have to talk about this part of HF? I feel the rage returning.

[Dengar]

Shinji did some pretty sick things, and he's basically beyond salvation, but it really isn't his fault he turned out that way. His mind has also been messed with a lot. So I feel more pity for him than hate.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by simoneparisi1995

no, i know that the worms make sakura lust a lot and she has to absorb semen or blood to take the energy that they take from her sexual stimulation or at least this is the purpose for zouken making shinji rape her.Now i didn't understand if she went along with it only for piting shinji or because she needed that energy and if the lustful worms made her feel pleasure.(I already know shinji is a bast*** and she didn't want that so if you're gonna say that,no need to answer).I did this question because there are different theories and all and wiki too isn't very clear about it.

Zouken never ordered Shinji to rape Sakura, although it's pretty obvious that he wasn't overly bothered by it (likely because it helped break her further). Sakura went along with it because she's been abused horribly for a long time (therefore lacking self-esteem) and also because she is a fundamentally nice person who felt sorry for Shinji.

Originally Posted by simoneparisi1995

sorry to bother you again :v this is the last message
i found this passage which is repeated on many sites "they drain her Mana but feed on her carnal impulses, drastically increasing her sexual frustration. To curb this aggravation, Zouken frequently instructs Shinji to rape Sakura",this is based on false theories then?

Yeah, that's fanon. Nothing in the VN says he ordered it.

last question:can you explain me how the worms work and how they feed on sakura?sorry again

They feed on her mana to sustain theirselves, and also act to increase her sexual frustration in the process.

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

The worms feed off her mana as their source of nutrition. The worms also act as an aphrodisiac making her require the use of semen or blood to calm down which also helps feed the worms inside her because as stated earlier in the game, semen/blood are packed with mana. Zouken has Shinji rape Sakura as a means to break her and prepare her for AM to exert it's influence (however Sakura became too good at shutting out the abuse that it wasn't working which is why he remained inactive the Fate and UBW). Shinji held a deep inferiority complex and a need to exert his "authority" over Sakura. Zouken merely used this to his own ends in his attempt to break Sakura as well as calm the crest worms to keep her going until the time was right.

This is mostly correct, but Zouken never explicitly told Shinji to rape Sakura, or even really forced it. He took advantage of it once it happened, but he never actually directly caused it to happen.

[Dengar]

Everybody wins. Except Sakura.

[simoneparisi1995]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Zouken never ordered Shinji to rape Sakura, although it's pretty obvious that he wasn't overly bothered by it (likely because it helped break her further). Sakura went along with it because she's been abused horribly for a long time (therefore lacking self-esteem) and also because she is a fundamentally nice person who felt sorry for Shinji.



Yeah, that's fanon. Nothing in the VN says he ordered it.



They feed on her mana to sustain theirselves, and also act to increase her sexual frustration in the process.



This is mostly correct, but Zouken never explicitly told Shinji to rape Sakura, or even really forced it. He took advantage of it once it happened, but he never actually directly caused it to happen.

i ask you,sorry if it's boring :v but i'm playng the route and don't understand somethings
So i searched again on the wiki (maybe a mistake) and i found this
"Normally only an observation device for Zouken, its usage can be activated by her lust, which in turn causes her to lust even more as the worms in her blood become an aphrodisiac. It can be forcefully activated with an aphrodisiac given to Shinji or just through her normal feelings for Shirou."
I understood all but why also her feelings for Shirou? Does that mean that she felt lust for him and in the same way she felt lust having "sex" with Shinji because of her situation? (Honestly i don't think that)
Or that means that it can be activated by Shinji just because the worms feed on semen and can be activated through her "lust" for Shirou? (in this case the lust doesn't matter in Shinji's case)
or again the aphrodisiac is not given through sex in this case and it's just something he really gives to her?
Btw i think that all the rage in the web about Sakura is because of the otaku who can't wthstand that she enjoyed sex though she was raped (it was not her choice but they can't understand) and i didn't find nothing saying she felt pleasure during the rape anyway so i don't get where they read it.
Sorry for the long message

[Dengar]

They don't feed on semen, they feed on mana.

As for "why also her feelings for Shirou", I don't think that bears any explanation.

She has feelings for Shirou, and I don't know about you, but when I have feelings for someone, it kind of makes me want to do... things with them.

[simoneparisi1995]

Originally Posted by Dengar

They don't feed on semen, they feed on mana.

As for "why also her feelings for Shirou", I don't think that bears any explanation.

She has feelings for Shirou, and I don't know about you, but when I have feelings for someone, it kind of makes me want to do... things with them.

i asked why it was compared that with the aphrodisiac given by Shinji XD and also I didn't understand if it was bad written because it says"the aphrodisiac given to Shinji" and didn't understand if it was like a spell or something or the semen itself

[GreyZone]

I don't understand why people rely on the wiki so much. If you want to know the things, you'd better be off with either just reading the VN or waiting until the HF movies are released.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by simoneparisi1995

i ask you,sorry if it's boring :v but i'm playng the route and don't understand somethings
So i searched again on the wiki (maybe a mistake) and i found this
"Normally only an observation device for Zouken, its usage can be activated by her lust, which in turn causes her to lust even more as the worms in her blood become an aphrodisiac. It can be forcefully activated with an aphrodisiac given to Shinji or just through her normal feelings for Shirou."

Yeah, the problem here is the use of the wiki. Unless it has a linked source, anything on the wiki is generally highly suspect.

I understood all but why also her feelings for Shirou? Does that mean that she felt lust for him and in the same way she felt lust having "sex" with Shinji because of her situation? (Honestly i don't think that)
Or that means that it can be activated by Shinji just because the worms feed on semen and can be activated through her "lust" for Shirou? (in this case the lust doesn't matter in Shinji's case)
or again the aphrodisiac is not given through sex in this case and it's just something he really gives to her?

Lust and love aren't mutually-exclusive. Sakura feels lust towards Shirou, which is enhanced by the worms, but she also genuinely loves him and enjoys having sex with him on an emotional level as well as a physical one. Conversely, with Shinji, whilst the worms ensure that she will get aroused by having sex with him, she doesn't want to have sex with him and the way he treats her causes her significant emotional distress.

Btw i think that all the rage in the web about Sakura is because of the otaku who can't wthstand that she enjoyed sex though she was raped (it was not her choice but they can't understand) and i didn't find nothing saying she felt pleasure during the rape anyway so i don't get where they read it.
Sorry for the long message

Anyone who thinks that is a complete asshole. It is not unusual for women to become aroused during rape, because arousal is an unconscious reflex not a conscious one. It does not in any way mean that they are "enjoying" it or that it is any less a case of rape.

[simoneparisi1995]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Yeah, the problem here is the use of the wiki. Unless it has a linked source, anything on the wiki is generally highly suspect.



Lust and love aren't mutually-exclusive. Sakura feels lust towards Shirou, which is enhanced by the worms, but she also genuinely loves him and enjoys having sex with him on an emotional level as well as a physical one. Conversely, with Shinji, whilst the worms ensure that she will get aroused by having sex with him, she doesn't want to have sex with him and the way he treats her causes her significant emotional distress.



Anyone who thinks that is a complete asshole. It is not unusual for women to become aroused during rape, because arousal is an unconscious reflex not a conscious one. It does not in any way mean that they are "enjoying" it or that it is any less a case of rape.

I guess I missed the part where it explains that she "had" to enjoy sex with Shinji,because of that didn't understand a lot of things XD I think I'll have to re-read it