2013-11-28, 14:05 | Link #8962 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
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Thats true there are a lot of points I could debate like the liberal use of the Mary Stu title, and how do you try to use it to gloss over a lot of things, and how do I like the pace of the story, but I understand that for each their own. If you dont enjoy it I understand, If I wanted to read a VN I would go and read one, but in this case I like it.
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2013-11-28, 14:41 | Link #8963 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
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This is something I have problems with. I don't mind long, drawn-out stories, and I don't mind stories without some deep meaning or purpose behind them. If anything, it just pisses me off it get's too blatant or preachy. This is probably in large part because of my beliefs, strangely enough.
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2013-11-28, 16:21 | Link #8964 | ||||||
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
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That basically what the campiones are. Godou is a Ordinary Highschool Student, Alec is a Phantom Thief, Luo Hao is a chuunibyou, Aisha is a dojikko, Doni is a Idiot Hero, JPS/Annie Charlton is a bit more complicated, representing the identity crisis that masked superheroes face, about which side of them is who they truly are. That's what their characters are about. Personally, I find it pretty interesting. The last time I saw something like that with a specific group of characters was David Edding's Belgarion series, another favourite of mine. Quote:
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2013-11-29, 03:04 | Link #8965 | |||||||||
Old Wine
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: In my Body
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As for Mary Stu (wut, last I checked it's Marty Stu or Mary Sue, not Mary Stu), I mostly refers to them as a Stu/Sue. There are many kinds of them (link): Anti-Sue, Black Hole Sue, Canon Sue, Possession Sue, Copy Cat Sue, Dream Sue, Einstein Sue, Fixer Sue, God-Mode Sue, Jerk Sue, Lemon Stu, Mary Tzu, Marty Stu, Parody Sue, Purity Sue, Mary Sue Classic, Neutrality Sue , Relationship Sue, Sympathetic Sue, Villain Sue. Voban is obvious Villain Sue. Luo Hao is almost a God-Mode Sue, though she's pretty much just a Power Seeker like Brolli were. Aisha is a Black Hole Sue and Purity Sue. Alec is a Jerk Sue and Mary Tzu. Annie/JPS is mostly okay, she's quite balanced though her Oneitus can be annoying. Doni is an obvious God-Mode Sue. And Godou is of course, a Marty Stu, and Uldin too is one. The girls are borderline Relationship Sues too. Quote:
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And is that really exploring it? Studying it? No, nuh uh. Last time I checked, when you study/explore something, you put it in various conditions and not just the same monotony ones ('annoying', 'troublesome', and 'childish'). It has never, ever, played for serious effect, but at the same time, it isn't comedic (well, crack) enough to be called a parody. Because all of them are played straight without subversion, aversion, double subversion, deconstruction, reconstruction, satire... they become annoying instead. I mean, if you're going to bring an element into a story, make sure you fucking use it. Law of Conservation of Details and Chekhovs Gun. So far, it's just a small gimmick that played some role but not enough explored. So it become annoying instead. I can't call that a character study. Not until they have actually shown enough aspects of it, that is, aspects that seriously matters. Quote:
Oh, they've only told you that everyone's complaining about the Campiones, but has this EVER played a critical plot role? Has Godou's 'allies' ever really pulled a What the Hell Hero? over him? All they do is just ask for more of his attention and love. Never hate him genuinely, never genuinely angry at him, never genuinely disappointed in him. Only 'comedically'. Which isn't really comedic since it's not that funny after the first few times and gets tiring fast. Remember, "Show, don't tell." Really reminds me of the whole Canon!Nitori vs Fanon!Nitori case. The fanon based it on what ZUN said about her being 'shy' and how she looked like. The canon? They examined her actual dialogues and actions then determines that she's just neurotic. It doesn't matter what the author said if it didn't show up and play a role in the story, that's just an Informed Attribute. Also, there ARE Stus and Sues that are canonically a Sue/Stu. I remember there was one movie where the MC is a Stu/Sue while the villain isn't shown to be that bad of a person and got his business ruined because of the MC. But that's a cheap movie. But then again, this is also a cheap novel aimed at teenagers so, not a big surprise there. Quote:
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"They almost never have any flaws that actually affect them in a way that truly matters, usually going for endearing traits such as "clumsiness" or naïveté, instead getting overloaded with overwhelmingly positive but largely passive traits (i.e. beauty, innocence, etc.). The character will usually be soft-spoken, have a pleasant voice, and be mild-mannered. Often, the traits verge towards the ethereal, with auras, non-human lineage, and other such things." Now why does that sounds so familiar? Quote:
A romantic relationship isn't defined by just some 'heartwarming fluff' or 'fanservice kisses'. It's defined by conflicts and dynamics in the relationship, where it can move up and down. Low and high. Happy and sad. Envy and anger. Love and hatred. We have never get that dynamic, all is just "Girls resist, Godou be gentleman, girls follows," though lately it's been reversed to "Godou resist, girls insist, Godou follows," which is just a reversal. And also, that's just interaction dynamic. What I want to see is emotional dynamic. As it was, the emotions are pretty monotone. No fear. No hatred. No anguish. No breakdown. No depression. No emotional rebirth. Is this really a story with high historical/mythological theme? Last time I checked, in the Hero's Journey system, there's a point where the hero falls and then rises up again, reborn. So much for having mythological theme, if he doesn't even know about an old storytelling system like that. Quote:
The history is fine. But it can be intrusive and forced sometimes. Like with Godou's [Sword]. I tend to skim them because they're basically just infodump. Really, if he wanted to show history, then why not just make a freaking history book? Why not just set it in the past where THAT is the focus of the story? On that note, just what is the focus of the story? For an action genre, there are a lot of times that aren't focused on external conflict and violence. History? No, it isn't set in a historical time? Fantasy? Yeah, I can accept that, but that isn't a story genre, just a setting genre. Comedy? It's not really funny and not much focus in the humor. Romance? It doesn't really put any hurdle for the lovers to overcome, a principle in the genre. Love/friendship? Not enough focus on the coming and falling apart of relationships. Maturation Plot? Not really, reality never really slapped him in the face, just on the wrist. It felt like it tried too hard in mixing the genre and didn't come into any genre. With that said, if there are one things that I have to praise, that would be its awesome ideas/premise. It's very good, the idea, the premise, the basis. I love it. Even if I am losing my love for the story, I still love the premise and ideas very much. The actions are not that bad but it's still mostly just power fest and that doesn't really engage me. I prefer high-speed high-strategy battle, not high-power low-strategy battle (by strategy, I'm talking about guiding the enemy to a certain action and then doing a certain action. There are some in the scenes, hence 'low' and not 'no'). It's okay, though due to the long-winded setup for the scene, it's not worth that much for me.
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2013-11-30, 00:53 | Link #8969 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Even Paulo and St. Raffaelo together didn't have that easy of a time against a fairly weak divine beast, and they are 2 of the strongest human characters in the series. They had more to give, but it was by no means easy. That divine beast didn't have the support of a summoner either. |
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2013-11-30, 01:12 | Link #8971 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
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I think everyone is entitled to their opinions and can disagree on things but let's not let things get out of hand. People have things they like and things they don't like. That's how things work.
Personally, I think the relationship RIGHT NOW is a bit too smooth for Godou and the girls, and I really haven't seen much development on the girl's side of things since volume 13 with Yuri. It kind of seems that at times Godou is in a semi youth frenzy, but then again, he is a healthy 16 year old. He doesn't even get a nose bleed either. Godou has gotten more used to the girls but that may be the effect of his current environment that he's been staying in for a couple of weeks in the past. I kind of want to see something kind of like volume 8 where his personal domestic life is focused on with some hijinks from the girls. I suppose Valentine's Day may have that. However, that might be about 2 volumes away considering this volume probably ends on a cliffhanger again. |
2013-11-30, 01:53 | Link #8973 | |
Old Wine
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: In my Body
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You know, one thing I've been thinking, is that how long Campione! will run for. By 15 Volumes, we still only reached about the middle (at most) or beginning (at least) of Artos Arc. This is after all the foreshadowings and build-ups towards his figure in the previous Arcs. And we still haven't dealt with the truth of the universe (the origin of the Campione system and the Heretic Gods system for one) and whoever/whatever is behind everything, behind Artos and Pandora's existence, roles, and 'pacts' (Artos said he was forge, he had a duty, Pandora said there are things she can't said and she's plain suspicious). I just hope it won't be as long as To Aru series. At least that one's better written and ensemble-centric instead of protagonist-centric so they had a defense...
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2013-11-30, 02:24 | Link #8974 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
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If Godou were to have real character development, it would be one of 2 things. He would eventually accept his inner Uldin and become more aggressive/lecherous with his harem while continuing to protest that he is a pacifistic normal high school kid.
The other way and the way I would personally prefer would be for him to acknowledge he is no longer normal, wave goodbye to his pretense that he is a pacifist and take some personal responsibility for the damage and other issues he causes, instead of more or less shrugging it off to be forgotten and having no impact on him. More or less for him to grow up. I doubt the second would happen, most likely the first would happen if anything, other then getting to use his powers better. |
2013-11-30, 06:05 | Link #8978 |
Member
Join Date: May 2011
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No surprised there...
They didn't turn into sand or ash or just vanish after death. the corpses are there so they aren't divine beast of the level Sun Wukong summoned. They are more like divine messengers or just wield beasts with big buff from goddess. Around 10 Frank warriors can stop it advances somewhat should be the first clue, really. Now the owl-bear is the real divine beast more or less |
Tags |
action, campione, ecchi, godslayer, harem, light novel, myth, romance, sd bunko, shounen, supernatural, time travel, true harem |
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