[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 8 Twilight of the golden witch

[AuraTwilight]

The Meta-World doesn't need to validate it's existence. It's Metafictional, Metamorphical, and Metaphysical. It's literally above physics and narrative to the point where "things happen because the story says so."

It's a plane fueled by, created by, moved by, and dominated by the thoughts of it's inhabitants, who are themselves influenced by whoever spawned them.

If anyone's played Silent Hill, you know where I'm going with this.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

The Meta-World doesn't need to validate it's existence. It's Metafictional, Metamorphical, and Metaphysical. It's literally above physics and narrative to the point where "things happen because the story says so."

It's a plane fueled by, created by, moved by, and dominated by the thoughts of it's inhabitants, who are themselves influenced by whoever spawned them.

If anyone's played Silent Hill, you know where I'm going with this.

I raised up that Silent Hill connection in the Game Spoilers thread a long time ago, but nobody took me seriously for that.

[MeoTwister5]

Summaries for today. Epic combat is Epic combat.

Spoiler for Summary:

LambdaDelta vs. Bernkastel
- Flashes of different colors arise when Bern arrives at the scene. Candies explode everywhere. The candy explodes into bullet-like projectiles and attack the cats, ripping them apart. Bern evades. Lambda and Bern stand face to face.
- Bern calls her an old friend, but would relish in tearing Lambda apart. She orders the cats to attack. The cats combine into one and try to devour Lambda. The two sweet talk each other as they fight.
- Lambda fires off multiple shots as the cats engulf her. The shots explode and collapse into the giant cat forming a singularity, black hole type thing in the palm of Lambda's hand. The cats are crushed into nothing. Bern stands alone.
- Bern freaks at Lambda and screams. The giant comet the fireworks eject gathers up Bern and stuffs itself into the black hole, swallowing her.
- The fight seems to end. The black hole condenses into candy. She apologizes to Bern as she picks up the candy to eat.
- A voice comes telling her that Bern doesn't taste well. Behind Lambda stands Bern who managed to evade the black hole. They, uh, declare their love and friendship again. They exclaim how happy they are. Both go trollface and giggle and lunge at each other.

Golden Land Battle
- The fleet breaks through the barrier. The goats surge into the gate and around the Golden Land perimeter. Erika orders a full scale assault. The adults grab their guns, the metacharacters arm their blades. Beato leads the defense. The witches and servants unleash their powers.
- Wave after wave of goats continue to assault despite the ones that get cut down, trampling the fallen underneath. Erika taunts them saying that their sandcastle will be brought down by the torrent of truth. In reaction, Beato summons up giant gun towers, raining shrapnel on the goats.
- Virgilia unleashes Smothered Mate from the top of the tower, spearing down more goats. The adults likewise stand their ground, gunning down hapless goats as Kinzo relishes in the underdog battle.
- Erika scythes up and cuts down one of the giant towers. She says her scythe of truths will cut down anything magic they deem to use. She jumps into the air and disappears, the Siestas unable to detect her on radar. The Siestas fire of their gold beams to try and shoot her down.
- Erika continues to evade and in the lull, cuts down the other tower. With the towers down the goats continue their assault. She says she will have all their heads hung on spears (reference to olden times when the victors would behead their enemies and mount them on sticks as a warning to others).

MetaLibrary
- Battler and Ange arrive at the dome where Eva-Beatrice has just cleaned it out. Five minutes more or less have passed since Eva started clearing and the seal countdown started. Behind them they see flashes of the fight between Bern and Lambda. Battler tells Ange to go back when they get the ley. He will go help Lambda. Ange refuses. He says he might be the power to tip the balance in that fight, no matter how little power he may have.
- He says she must deliver the key to the Golden Land and return. He says this is not longer her world nor her fight. She remembers her decision to live and never look back.
- Battler says when she gets there, Beato will show her two doors to choose from of where she makes her final decision about the truth of Rokkenjima. Each door leads to two different possible futures. When she exist through the doors, the door to the catbox with them inside will be closed forever. They will be victorious when she finally leaves.
- He intends to go help Lambda. Ange decides to accept that they will win. He tells her to believe in them because they believe in her.
- Just then a large explosion rocks the area. The fight isn't progressing well and it's only a matter of time before Bern realizes what is really happening. There is one last circle to the seal.

LambdaDelta vs. Bernkastel
- Bern has apparently defeated Lambda. She orders the cats to start collecting the remains. Bern eats a last cookie fragment saying Lambda will be one with her.
- However upon ingesting the cookie fireworks and candy explode from Bern's mouth and stomach. She starts vomiting excessively. Lambda appears from the fragment. The fireworks obliterate through Bern's body. Bern is furious as she vomits in pain. She is still alive anyway. They mock each other lovingly and still go at it. They clash again. Scene change.

Kinzo and Krauss vs. Erika
- More goats rampage through. The sisters and the Inquisitors (Will, Dlanor and crew) cut down wave upon wave of goats. The witches are pouring all their power into gutting goats. The humans gold their ground and fire away. Erika is irate at the pace of the battle. Erika confronts Kinzo. She says the old man should be dead before 1986.
- ERIKA DRIVES HER SCYTHE INTO KINZO. In spite of this, Kinzo maintains his grin. Kinzo declares himself immortal. KINZO LANDS WHITE PUNCHES INTO ERIKA'S GUT. Cue epic Kinzo laughter. Kinzo goes down.
- Krauss says he will step in for Kinzo. Erika calls him a money waster. Krauss says Erika's shoelaces are undone. She looks down. KRAUSS LANDS A PUNCH INTO ERIKA'S JAW. Krauss says he may not be much of a businessman, but his fists have not forgotten his stint as a college boxer. Erika snaps and tries to escape.

Jessica and Kanon vs. Goat Wave
- The goats say Kanon is nothing but a fantasy of Jessica. Jessica of course does not take this suggestion lightly and remembers her time with Kanon in the festival and on Rokkenjima where they bonded, etc. Because she is badass, Jessica's eyes go gray and starts opening cans of whoopass. Kanon arrives to assist just in time.
- Jessica and Kanon go back to back (at least that's how it should be goddammit) and start their melee. He complements her on her technique and her resilience. She blushes mildly and says they need to do this. He unleashes his red blade. GOAT MASSACRE ENSUES.

George and Shannon vs. Goat Wave
- Goats declare Shannon a fantasy of an introverted George. The goat lands a punch into George's face. Because he is badass, he is unfazed. He reacts calmly to their taunts. The goat who punched feels pain like punching a wall. The goat begins to get afraid. George says he was that kind of man before, but for Shannon's sake he has changed. He grabs the goat's arm and starts crushing it.
- Because one must never insult someone else's woman, George decides to show the goats how timid he really is. FISTS AND KICKS RAIN DOWN ON GOATS.
- A goat tries to grab Shannon but his hand melts instantly. She says her love for him is pure, and she will defend their love to the end. The goat begins to melt at her words. She unleashes a barrier and the goats obliterate themselves. (I also suspect they are back to back, because that's how it should be goddammit.)

Maria and Rosa vs. Erika
- Maria says her magic will destroy the goats who interfere with her happiness. Rosa jumps down to defend her daughter. Despite their troubled relationship, they say they do love each other.
- Erika says the two of them are always fighting. Maria says she should not doubt her. Creepy Maria laugh. Erika declares that Rosa does not love Maria.
- Erika suddenly finds herself struck down to the ground. She finds a gun barrel in her mouth. A SHOT IS FIRED OBLITERATING HER HEAD. That is of course only an dopple.
- She evades but sees a really pissed off Rosa tailing her. ROSA DRIVES HER FOUNTAIN PEN INTO ERIKA'S EYE. Again a dopple. Erika barely escapes this time. Epic Rosa handily caps all of Erika's images. Erika escapes outside Rosa's attack range. Erika is stunned at this turn of events. Rosa fires more shots and Erika evades. Erika is in shock and disbelief at the maddening power the Ushiromiya's are displaying.

Kyrie AND Rudolph vs. Erika
- While evading Rosa Erika barely dodges a (pair of?) shot that nearly grazes her. KYRIE AND RUDOLPH FIND IT MILDLY REGRETTABLE THAT THEY MISSED. Rudolph says too bad. Erika is starting to get cornered. Erika evades more shots and tries to get out of everyone's effective gun range.
- KYRIE AND RUDOLPH SHOOT IN UNISON TRYING TO GET HER DOWN. Erika gets away.

Dlanor vs. Erika (oh the irony)
- As she barely escapes from the humans, she barely blocks a red sword attack. A SILENT DLANOR APPROACHES. Erka mocks Dlanor. Dlanor calmly tells her that she is a wocked person who finds delight in destroying the hearts and minds of people. Dlanor begins to glow and Erika feels the killing intent from one who was once her "friend". Dlanor says she will free Erika from this world as her friend.
- DLANOR TROLLFACE. She slashes at Erika like a berserker. She can barely block let alone dodge. Dlanor says she wants Erika to rest in peace. She slashes a big one at Erika who ormptly disappears.
- Erika appears back at her ships, irate, drops her scythe and orders the ships to fire their cannons. Erika raeg. Hundreds of shots launch at the Golden Land.

Golden Land Battle
- The shots plow through the land as well as the goats. The maze, the hedges, the summer villa and the gardens are in flames. The goats caught in the crossfire can only wail in pain. She orders the goats to weigh anchor on the Golden Land to rip it apart. A figure however lands on the ship.

Beatrice vs. Erika
- Beato arrives on board the flagship. Beato summons magic from her pipe to form a Nagatsurugi (Which I assume is a Tsurugi, a Japanese broadsword). Erika summons back her scythe and declares this to be the end of their battle.
- She transforms her scythe into a sword as well (yes we have a swordfight). EPIC SWORDFIGHT BEGINS. While they duke it out the ships drop anchor and start ripping through the Golden Land. Beato says she is honored to finally face Erika. The Golden Land burns in the background as the two clash.
- A rift appears in the land as the ships pull it apart. The land starts to fall into the fissure. Erika calls it a fitting background to a final duel. Beato says that the fact that they are here cannot be erased, and that Ange has arrived to take control of the future. She says that in the end, with Ange, they have succeeded.
- Swords clash. The fissure widens and the goats are sucked inside. The defenders hang on with all their might. In the end the entire land is getting sucked in. The defenders are overwhelmed. Beato says they are the true lords of the Golden Land and she will prove it with her blade. The two cross swords one more time.

Yeah out of all of them I was particularly psyched with Rosa and Dlanor. Blog updated.

[Klashikari]

-She says she will free Dlanor from this world as her friend.

Little correction: Dlanor was the one declaring so, after saying Erika just enjoys messing with people dreams and delusions.
Then starts swinging her sword so hard that the impacts are gigantic.

You also forgot this awesome quote:

Erika: 「……こいつらッ、………何なんですかッ？！ わけが、……わからないッ！！ …………ッ？！？！」
Translation: ......These guys, .........what the hell are they?! I don't......get it!!! ...... ?!?!

The Ushiromiyas, the bloody family
(Particularly effective, as The Executioner is playing when Rose starts the musou mode, then we got Kyrie, Rudolf and Panzer Dlanor)

[Renall]

We don't know what's contained in any of the in-world narratives. Any of them. I tend to refer to the in-universe fictions by episode title (Legend, Dawn, etc.) and the episodes themselves by number.

Bluntly, we have no earthly idea what parts of the stories are written down as actual text and which parts are not. Ep1 would almost seem to suggest that most episodes are like Legend with no magic world either, yet episodes like ep2 and ep4 seem to fly in the face of that as it would require heavy manipulation of the printed story to the version we actually see. Then again, there is ep5 and ep6, and you have to ask just what the text of Dawn of the Golden Witch was actually meant to be.

The safe bet is "mystery and magic is in the narrative, meta-world is outside the narrative but related to it." Under this theory the meta-world is either a separate story, a metaphor for reading and thinking, or just a different plane of existence entirely.

If the meta-world stuff is in the in-universe narratives... hoo boy, we've got some trouble.

Originally Posted by Kylon99

You know, we could argue which world was 'on top' but I have a feeling that Ryukishi could very well write that both the Meta-World and Rokkenjima-Prime cross-created each other. And that in each world the other would be viewed as subordinate.

This kind of trouble.

[immblueversion]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Spoiler for Summary:

- Beato arrives on board the flagship. Beato summons magic from her pipe to form a Nagatsurugi (Which I assume is a Tsurugi, a Japanese broadsword). Erika summons back her scythe and declares this to be the end of their battle.

Spoiler for EP8:

"Nagatsurugi" wouldn't happen to be spelled "永剣" would it? That would roughly translate to "Eternal Sword" or, perhaps more fittingly, "Endless Sword."

[AuraTwilight]

The awesomeness of the

Spoiler for EP8:

Golden Land fight

will dominate my pleasure centers forever.

[ClannadDango]

Just reading MeoTwister5's summaries are epic!

[vdaysnowstorm]

Thank you for all your hard work MeoTwister5!!!!

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by Renall

The safe bet is "mystery and magic is in the narrative, meta-world is outside the narrative but related to it." Under this theory the meta-world is either a separate story, a metaphor for reading and thinking, or just a different plane of existence entirely.

If the meta-world stuff is in the in-universe narratives... hoo boy, we've got some trouble.This kind of trouble.

I also assume that the meta-world is a metaphor for the thoughts of those who read the stories/experience them in any given way.
Especially Episode 8 made that very probable, as it is implied that the whole meta-world sequence around Ange (spanning all the games she was featured in) happened while she was standing on the roof of that skyscraper she was assumed to have jumped off from. I think it was quite probable that everything after that were just possibilities that could have happened and played out in her mind (helped by the witches).

I think on some level the meta-world exists in Umineko, but it's influence on reality is rather small, just like most people always assumed.
If we consider the Tanabata-Tip concerning Ange's and Eva's relationship, witches can only contact people while they dream or are in a moment of great emotional distress. So one could assume that Bernkastel showed Ange all those things right before she jumped and gave her some insight into possible fates that could befall her, but the actuall reality was never altered.

So the metaworld of Battler and Beato could be seen as a general representation of the reader (or maybe even Tôya) trying to make sense of the situation.
Just a little question for that, in the manga-version of Episode 6 it was said that Banquet and Alliance surfaced in the web and never had their authors revealed...was that in the original as well? I can only remember them saying that versions of messagebottles surfaced on the web, but if it was actually Banquet and Alliance and End was actually Tôya's first novel it would make sense.

[AuraTwilight]

The manga is correct. Hachijou claims to have written three forgeries that were shared on the internet with fake pen names, and she showed the manuscript for a fourth one (EP6) to Ange.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Little correction: Dlanor was the one declaring so, after saying Erika just enjoys messing with people dreams and delusions.
Then starts swinging her sword so hard that the impacts are gigantic.

You also forgot this awesome quote:
The Ushiromiyas, the bloody family
(Particularly effective, as The Executioner is playing when Rose starts the musou mode, then we got Kyrie, Rudolf and Panzer Dlanor)

Yeah thanks. Correcting it.

Originally Posted by immblueversion

Spoiler for EP8:

"Nagatsurugi" wouldn't happen to be spelled "永剣" would it? That would roughly translate to "Eternal Sword" or, perhaps more fittingly, "Endless Sword."

I can't recall it exactly since I don't have a save at that exact file, but the 剣 character is indeed the one for Tsurugi here, so yes it's a direct reference to the sword.

[Used Can]

Hmm... I've got this... marvellous idea. Say, how about, in Rei (assuming R07 does make it) we get yet another Meta level, this one above the rest. In this one, Umineko, on its entirety (Meta-world included), is a story. Sure, the whole event did happen, but by this point, everyone is dead. In this reality, Battler didn't survive and Ange did throw herself from the building, but this was to commit suicide and succeeded. There's no Hachijō Tōya or Hachijō Ikuko. The author is just a famous fantasy writer. Of course, the writer has no connection at all with the Ushiromiyas, and thus, the whole story was just fantasy. There's not a single bit of truth to it.

This story would be about a girl who suffered from a severe depression, and who managed to find some strength by reading this story. In addition, we'd see several stories about the Ushiromiyas and Meta-characters written by people who have read the story. Some of these stories are happy, and some others are sad. Of course, one of the people writing these stories is this particular girl, who somehow became fond of fantasy stories, but ended up also developing an interest on the mysery genre, due to it being referenced in Umineko.

By the end of the story, we've seen that several years have passed and she's become a detective. The final scene involves her being invited by her friend to her suite in the city... what she didn't know is the odd events that'd place later, but the rest is another story, another when they cry. The End.

I can see this happening.

[AuraTwilight]

That's sort of...dumb. I really don't think Ryukishi would go THAT far, as it would render absolutely everything to be meaningless. Atleast this way the fiction is meaningful to the characters of Battler and Ange and contain truthful information of people who existed.

[Used Can]

No, it wouldn't be meaningless because of the girl who got over her depression, and other possible people who found hope in the story!

Just think of it: People creating hope out of a horrible tragedy.
Wouldn't that be beautiful?

Methinks thou hath no love.

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Hmm... I've got this... marvellous idea. Say, how about, in Rei (assuming R07 does make it) we get yet another Meta level, this one above the rest. In this one, Umineko, on its entirety (Meta-world included), is a story.

But if we do that, we might as well be talking about real life, right?

I wouldn't be surprised if (as you say) Umineko was "downgraded" to story status in the next game if the series continues, like Higurashi was, but probably not as a major plot point.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

But if we do that, we might as well be talking about real life, right?

OR... something opposite to what the guys in Inception did. Instead of going deeper, you go higher.

[AuraTwilight]

No, it wouldn't be meaningless because of the girl who got over her depression, and other possible people who found hope in the story!

But that girl only exists to justify this ending of yours. We don't know her, we can't know her, and she and all her problems were created whole-cloth for the sake of a twist ending. She's not a character so much as she would be a device, so she's not even the slightest bit comparable to Battler and Ange, who are proper characters who had been a part of the narrative since the beginning.

I mean, hell, Yasu barely got away with it because she had a tangential connection to the characters we did know. Some other girl is just going to be a flat cop-out. We might as well say the depressed girl is Rika Fu-UUUUUUUUUU

[MeoTwister5]

Forgot to say that I have an exam tomorrow so no summary today. Next summary will be up tomorrow.

[Mcjon01]

Originally Posted by immblueversion

Spoiler for EP8:

"Nagatsurugi" wouldn't happen to be spelled "永剣" would it? That would roughly translate to "Eternal Sword" or, perhaps more fittingly, "Endless Sword."

It's just "黄金の長剣". Golden Longsword, basically. But different from the one Battler uses, I guess.