2008-12-14, 12:48 | Link #701 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 31
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I'm not part of my mom anymore, not connected to her physically, but I'm dependent on her for food and shelter. I'm probably psychologically dependent on her as well. So if I wanted to, I could make a line there, and say "my mom has the right to abort me since I'm still dependent to her." I probably wouldn't say that though, since I don't believe that's a good place to draw the line. How far do you want to go? Physical, Financial, Ethical, and considerations are all affecting the situation; my point is that you can't just choose one of them (physical) and make a decision based upon that. |
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2008-12-14, 12:52 | Link #702 |
I am about to leave again
Artist
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Honestly.......I think it's wrong....you know human life blah blah........BUT-
1. If they was stupid enough to do it....they get the kid....it's a consequense....... 2.If it was not up to them......the abortions should be justified....... 3.If it's religion go with it and so on.... It's truely up to the parents......but I still think it's wrong...... |
2008-12-14, 12:52 | Link #703 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Demongod: Yeah. And what if a woman does something to her unborn fetus that won't kill, but cripple it, and thus have negative consequences on what's undeniably a separate human being?
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- on what grounds would abortion be justified in case of rape and not in case of consensual sex? - abortion is just as much a consequence as having a baby. You don't lose your free will upon becoming pregnant. Quote:
On a semi-related subject... This thread is 36 pages long. What makes you, and others like you, think that something as simplistic as "I think X" hasn't been posted and answered to ad nauseam? |
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2008-12-14, 13:01 | Link #704 |
I am about to leave again
Artist
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Yes, rape or being forced to have sex would be a justification(mentioned in my earlier statement)......if you never get pregnant you would never need to get an abortion.....yes ,abortion is a consequence....but it's most likely just as painful as giving birth.......which you can be knocked out during both......so you might as well save a life and give the child up for adoption.......
As far as feelings of a pregnancy, they are relevant....if you feel you should or shouldn't have the child it's their choice....... |
2008-12-14, 13:24 | Link #705 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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edit: Also when they are brain dead... Last edited by james0246; 2008-12-14 at 13:47. |
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2008-12-14, 14:53 | Link #706 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2008-12-14, 15:21 | Link #707 | |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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That said, until that fetus is out of her body as a baby, I don't perceive it as its own creature. I draw the line at the simplest point: has the fetus been given proper birth or not? If so, it's a baby, and he or she is a separate, living creature. Until then, it's part of the woman's body. As for financial/psychological dependence, if a biological mother cannot provide that, foster parents, or the state can (if not very well). |
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2008-12-14, 15:35 | Link #708 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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... so? How does that answer my question? What if, for example, she decides to trigger the birth early, so that the baby will be greatly premature, crippled, but possibly alive? Those happen naturally. No reason they can't be set off artificially.... except moral and medical.
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2008-12-14, 16:01 | Link #710 | |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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^ Because we haven't even agreed on a universal definition for a human being, have we? Failing that, any definition that distinguishes an embryo from a "person" is arbitrary.
If it were so easy to define a "human being", this debate wouldn't be necessary. Quote:
But I suspect, at the same time, that most posters here are too young to appreciate what parents feel when they see their baby (still a foetus) for the first time in an ultrasound scan, or when they hear their baby's heartbeat while it's still in its mother's womb. Sure, it's only a potential life, not yet an actual human being. But to speak of foetuses as "creatures", or to equate it to a cyst growing inside a woman does not quite adequately describe what we're dealing with either. |
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2008-12-14, 16:19 | Link #711 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Oaky, I guess I didn't fully understand what Anh_Minh was clarifying when he/she spoke of the process as being "arbitrary". I thought he/she meant the differecnce between the seperation of a being in the womb versus being outside of the womb, so I was confused by what made the process of birth "arbitrary" . I just confused myself needlessly, it seems.
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2008-12-14, 16:20 | Link #712 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Not really.... If you notice, both sides are talking with different languages. And "human being" is the language of pro-lifers. Even if the human being aspect is settles, using it requires extreme prudence since eventually we will come at the question of which rights should take the precedence.
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2008-12-14, 16:24 | Link #713 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2008-12-14, 16:31 | Link #714 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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When the cord is cut. From just a scientific point of view, this would be the moment that the baby stops drawing strength/sustenance directly/only from the mother, and can be feed from other sources (other women's breast milk or formula, etc). It is still dependent upon others, but it stops being simply dependent upon a sole individual.
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2008-12-14, 17:05 | Link #716 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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...this is just a guess. I have no real background in the biological sciences (as I am sure my above statements just proved ). |
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2008-12-14, 17:37 | Link #717 | |
Wiggle Your Big Toe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 33
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2008-12-15, 21:22 | Link #718 | |
ドジ
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a house
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I, for one, am a firm believer in the idea that parents have full responsibility for their children and deserve society's scorn if they fail to fulfil that responsibility (why have sex/give birth in the first place if you are not prepared for the consequences)? I am not saying that the state should leave children to suffer under the inadequate care of their biological parents, but parents who fail in their responsibilities should not go unpunished. I do support abortion as a "way out". It is far preferable to abandoning babies. However, my support for abortion is counterbalanced by a strong belief that people ought to take responsibility for their actions. With rights come responsibilities. The western world is full of talk about "rights"... the woman's right to choose, the baby's right to life. However, rights are not absolute when they come into conflict with one another. Some might argue that abortion presents no such conflict since a foetus has no right to life but not everyone agrees with this assertion. Hence, a compromise is really the only way out. There is no way to satisfy everyone. The "woman's right to choose" must also be balanced against her judgement, foresight and responsibility. It would be absolutely reasonable for the law to favour women who are involuntarily pregnant. Women who are voluntarily pregnant made a conscious choice to have sex; they should be allowed abortions for the reason I mentioned above (a way out if they won't be able to support their child), but I wouldn't be opposed a few limits (on time, etc.) which would make people think twice about what they're doing. Last edited by Yukinokesshou; 2008-12-15 at 21:34. |
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2008-12-16, 03:49 | Link #719 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Yukino, there's something you forget:
Sex is very much a part of our culture. Not for the purpose of procreation, but for the purpose of recreation more often than not. So the vast majority of the time (in fact all but two or three times), the woman does NOT want the baby. And considering it's healthy to have sex every night or every other night with your loved one, I think we both see the point I'm making here. |
2008-12-16, 17:46 | Link #720 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: America
Age: 30
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I honestly don't see the difference, the mother is so hopped on amphetimeans (sorry I know I misspelled it) that there is no way she would suddenly say kill it. But the way people are talking here I would say when the baby could survive without the umbillical cord.
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