Anonymous and zero-presence fansubbing

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by psycho bolt

It's kinda bad though. It's hard to get feedback from viewers so the subs can be better.

You can get feedback via public forums such as this one. If your release is first out, you can bet at least some people will talk about it.

ZPF could easily be the future of speedsubs if ZPF groups tag team with a raw provider so people know who's raws to get.

Mind you, there will always be a demand for file size reduced subs just due to the fact some ISPs have bandwith caps, and not everyone has broadband, so there will always be a demand for standard groups. And of course, some people enjoy all the sparkly effects different groups make on their video.

I don't think ZPF is a threat to any group who's not subbing primarily for download counts.

[b0nk]

I don't really mind them when they vulture the shows that have fallen behind.

But I do mind them when they do shows that are at a decent pace and the HQ group gives up on it or loses motivation ie School Days.

Then again they cater to the hungry leechers who can't wait a few days for a better product so props to them for killing the motivation of respectable groups. Enjoy your .ass sub file and 300 MB raw.

[Ryougi Shiki]

"Anonymous" is /a/, not some disenfranchised group of random ex-translators, so I trust them.

And at b0nk:

They release MKVs, too.

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Ryougi Shiki

"Anonymous" is /a/, not some disenfranchised group of random ex-translators,

I _know_ you're wrong on that one.

[Slice of Life]

I'm quite sure that there is more than one anonymous (group). Some have yet to encounter the wonders of a spell checker (1st ep of Neuro), some scripts look decent (Potemayo).

[the.Merines]

Originally Posted by Ryougi Shiki

And at b0nk:

They release MKVs, too.

Well... Are these .mkv files just raws muxed with a .ass file, or are they proper H.264 encodes with AAC (or other 'high-quality' audio format) as they should be? And the point about these anonymous groups getting feedback from "public forums such as this one" is kinda moot, since talking about sub groups in particular series' topics is frowned upon here.

Personally, I've never been in a situation where I was forced to download an anonymous or ZPF group to get an episode I want. I've never been into speedsubs... Seeing frequent v2's doesn't speak much for their initial quality, but at least they care enough to correct mistakes.

[Sylf]

Originally Posted by the.Merines

or are they proper H.264 encodes with AAC (or other 'high-quality' audio format) as they should be?

Off Topic: don't confuse AAC being automatic high quality audio. In fact, if it's transcoded or reencoded in any format, it's usually not as good as the original audio used in the raw.

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by the.Merines

And the point about these anonymous groups getting feedback from "public forums such as this one" is kinda moot, since talking about sub groups in particular series' topics is frowned upon here.

I'm just saying that if you have the first sub out, an no one else gets anything out for at least 24-48 hours after you, you're going to get indirect feedback, because most of the depth discussion by people who don't know japanese will in all likelyhood be whatever came out first. And your ZPF group's made any serious errors, someone's going to point it out so that sub watchers don't go down the wrong line of thinking.

[outlaw97]

Just a thought, couldn't you adopt a wikipedia/open-source model to this? Release the script, and if someone doesn't like the way certain lines were phrased, or there are spelling errors, they can correct it accordingly.

Of course, you run into the issues of different translators feeling very strongly how certain nuances are worded, but at the least, you can avoid any Mass Naked Child disasters.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by outlaw97

Just a thought, couldn't you adopt a wikipedia/open-source model to this? Release the script, and if someone doesn't like the way certain lines were phrased, or there are spelling errors, they can correct it accordingly.

Of course, you run into the issues of different translators feeling very strongly how certain nuances are worded, but at the least, you can avoid any Mass Naked Child disasters.

Yes, a wiki would probably trigger revert wars about natural vs. literal translation. Of course, one could always do a fork and let the audience and the encoders decide which to pick.

But a central wiki would also be to vulnerable against C&D's.

Translators declaring their work open source would be great of course. After all, they don't make or even can make money out of it anyways.

[ScR3WiEuS]

You know... during all this babble about the pros and contras of anonymous subbing vs conventional subbing, I have failed to notice perhaps the most important aspect to fansubbing that comes to my mind. More than merely contributing to the fansubbing scene or anime scene in general, the main reason why I fansub was, is, and will always be the pure enjoyment I get out of the interaction with other subbers, and the proper process of fansubbing itself.

What also intrigues me is how anon fansubbers end up sounding more arrogant than the epenis obsessed conventional fansubbers. It seems it's not enough for them to merely upload a file and shut up, which would correspond with their philosophies. Anonymous fansubbing for the sake of fansubbing anonymously is in a way more arrogant than any other conventional ideal.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by ScR3WiEuS

What also intrigues me is how anon fansubbers end up sounding more arrogant than the epenis obsessed conventional fansubbers. It seems it's not enough for them to merely upload a file and shut up, which would correspond with their philosophies. Anonymous fansubbing for the sake of fansubbing anonymously is in a way more arrogant than any other conventional ideal.

Huh? Do you have examples for this? No names please, make them anonymous. LOL.

[outlaw97]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Yes, a wiki would probably trigger revert wars about natural vs. literal translation. Of course, one could always do a fork and let the audience and the encoders decide which to pick.

But a central wiki would also be to vulnerable against C&D's.

Translators declaring their work open source would be great of course. After all, they don't make or even can make money out of it anyways.

Can you send a C&D if you just provide a script? That's what I meant by making a wiki for the episodes - have no encodes, just a script. Because if companies DO send letters for it, they might as well shut down the bloggers providing summaries as well.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by outlaw97

Can you send a C&D if you just provide a script? That's what I meant by making a wiki for the episodes - have no encodes, just a script. Because if companies DO send letters for it, they might as well shut down the bloggers providing summaries as well.

Of course. It's still a derivative work. Summaries probably count under fair use. But the main point is: anime blogs are everywhere so you couldn't close them all even if you tried. Especially not if you tried.

[ScR3WiEuS]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Huh? Do you have examples for this? No names please, make them anonymous. LOL.

I'm referring to all the announcements left on bt sites, forums, etc.
Anonymous fansubbers are still fansubbers, and fansubbers are still factual people. Anon isn't a mystical creature of legends. In fact, you sound quite a bit like the anon subbers in their announcements and comments.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by ScR3WiEuS

I'm referring to all the announcements left on bt sites, forums, etc.
Anonymous fansubbers are still fansubbers, and fansubbers are still factual people. Anon isn't a mystical creature of legends. In fact, you sound quite a bit like the anon subbers in their announcements and comments.

I wish my Japanese was good enough to produce fansubs, really. Although I would probably be too lazy, I admit. Maybe the problem with the anons lies on your side of the screen?

[ScR3WiEuS]

I honestly don't have any problem with anon subbers, as long as they stick to their philosophy of being anon, and in a certain way neutral to fansubbing politics. Because, if neutrality and the refusal to participate in the conventional fansubbing community isn't the goal of anon, than anon has no real goal at all, except to stay under the radar of the anime corporations. Anon subbers propagating the principle of anon fansubbing, and thus in a certain way criticising the conventional organization of the fansubbing community, are not living up to their philosophy. They are nothing short of hypocrites.

[Potatochobit]

idk, isn't nero AAC pretty good?

[martino]

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

idk, isn't nero AAC pretty good?

Yes, but any re-encoding causes loss of quality, unless you use a bitrate/quality setting which makes it transparent.

[Zero1]

Originally Posted by jpwong

You can get feedback via public forums such as this one. If your release is first out, you can bet at least some people will talk about it.

ZPF could easily be the future of speedsubs if ZPF groups tag team with a raw provider so people know who's raws to get.

Mind you, there will always be a demand for file size reduced subs just due to the fact some ISPs have bandwith caps, and not everyone has broadband, so there will always be a demand for standard groups. And of course, some people enjoy all the sparkly effects different groups make on their video.

I don't think ZPF is a threat to any group who's not subbing primarily for download counts.

To compound my ever diminishing interest in anime, I moved house some weeks ago and my bandwith took a hit from 7mbps to 2.5mbps simply because I'm on ADSL and a long distance away from the telephone exchange. So downloading subs isn't as quick as it used to be, and my free time is always on the decrease. Not good.


However it was nice to be able to make some time to watch the new Gundam series. Not sure what to think of it so far, except it strikes me more as an alternate universe than UC. Perhaps it's just that I'm finding mech/animation similarities in Gundam Seed/Destiny with this. Somehow it felt like it was lacking the attention to detail that UC usually has, but I'll give it some time before completely writing it off.

So yeah, as well as it being aimed at the PS3, this file also worked perfectly on the KiSS 1600 (but for anyone considering getting one, do not update the firmware to 1.1.4 because Sigma implemented a level lock, which although nothing serious, is just a pain in the ass for a lot of files since they get refused even though the player is capable).