Let's Re-Watch Macross Frontier (TV) Together!

[user112168]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

If it gets onto the subject of various birthday presents and their suitability, you will be keeping in mind that Sheryl is a massively rich pop star who can buy pretty much anything she wants, whereas Ranka is a poor high school student who can't even afford her own Sheryl tickets, and thus, can't really give a better present than homemade cookies, right?

HAHAHA I've got even better than that, but thanks. I'll give a clue : I'ts all about who knew what, and when, and where they *got* the presents from.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Lancel

Sheryl gave it a few seconds after she kissed to get Alto's reaction, and she was probably hoping for something more positive than Alto's reaction of WTF. Probably shocked the hell out of our poor blind Hime who was probably thinking of Sheryl as a friend. So when that happened, Sheryl panicked in her head, got worried she was being too forward, too fast, thus the severe blush on her cheeks, then chickened out and brushed it off as more of her relentless teasing. Situation Normal, you're still just Sheryl's favorite little tease target, Alto.

Hm, I don't know how she could have expected something more positive, seeing how much out of the blue it came ( at least for Alto ). But of course if we are to go with your version of how Sheryl felt ( which sounds nice for a fanfic, but isn't exactly verifiable ), she pretty much wasn't reacting with a straight head anyway.

She came around to wanting to be really, really serious pretty fast, though. Two episodes later she definitely had fallen for him, the exact moment of her realization of it would have been, IMO, next episode. But more on that when we get around to it.

[user112168]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

07:00 – I never fully got why Ranka began calling Alto “Onii-chan” at that moment. Was she so shocked out of her mind that she just couldn’t distinguish Alto anymore from Ozma ( or Brera ^^)? Or was that foreshadowing of what the relationship between Alto and her was going to be?

I know I'm REAL late to this discussion (reading through the backlog now)

Ep 2 : "Dissociative Amnesia" as the plot calls it - she flashbacked to when she was a kid (thought Alto was Brera), and coming out of it she's like "Where am I?" and knocks the controls about in her confusion.

Note that in ep 3 when Ozma is injured she breaks down and ALSO confuses Ozma for Brera. The line "I kept it a secret like you told me!" is the giveaway (but this "secret" not fully explained til near the end of the series). Actually i think this mixed up memory thing is why later, in a flashback, the first time she spoke she called Ozma "Brother" rather than "dad" or something, and the name stuck

Originally Posted by Magnuskn

15:40 – I really have to wonder what Leon immediately saw in Ranka’s file which made him react his way. And, btw., nice Engrish on the paper itself.

He was already aware of/watching Ranka because of her link to 117th rsrch fleet. It was the sheer unlikeliness of her name popping up (there's a million people in Frontier), especially in relation to a Vajra attack.

Originally Posted by Solecs

That all aside, I just re-watched that part of the episode again, and I've got to say Ozma is a pretty crazy driver. Sure there are no other cars around but he's all over the place and then power slides onto the elevator going down to the hangar? A little unnecessary.

Also in Ep 2 : Ozma's reckless driving with Alto = Roy's ride with Hikaru the first time he visits SDF-1

Originally Posted by karice67

But they left the battlefield straight after that. If they were really just being affected by Ranka, then surely they'd have continued trying to get hold of her?

Boobies being touched obviously had a major impact on Ranka (a virgin, first boobie touch ever perhaps). I'd say Vajra are affected differently depending on the emotional content (i.e. Ranka is a 'Node' of Vajra network, you wouldn't want to always react the same to a node, it depends what's hapenning there). Maybe she accidentally gave Vajra "Run away / hide" message. There's little doubt that Ranka's scream was the cause of the retreat. It'd be 100% random otherwise. Personally, I don't think the Vajra really knew who or what Ranka was, so they had no actual "get her" plan and were reacting as the went along. Remember Grace's claim to have lead the Vajra to Frontier, and her own lack of detail about Ranka til ep 7.

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Plot devices abound! Ranka get's super vision to see her brother hurt in the cockpit! Agh!! They just so happen to enter the ship again in that same area too! Come on!
...
I liked Hikaru and Minmay's predicament better. We had a lot more development. All we got here was learning that Ranka is a cry baby and seeing just how awesome Sheryl is.

Duh?? Cathy TOLD her it was Ozma (EDIT : Cathy hysterically screaming "Ozma!" no less, so Ranka knew he was hurt), up til them she didn't have a clue, didn't even know he was flying. And, it makes sense that they'd LAND at the same place Sheryl and Ranka had seen them TAKE OFF in ep 2. Remember, Sheryl ran into Ranka right outside SMS HQ
...
Ranka's hand-locking on Alto is part of her *Mental Illness*, not being a "cry-baby". Ranka's reaction to trauma is explicitly dealt with in dialogue. I agree that the SDFM scene was a lot better.

[Lancel]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Hm, I don't know how she could have expected something more positive, seeing how much out of the blue it came ( at least for Alto ). But of course if we are to go with your version of how Sheryl felt ( which sounds nice for a fanfic, but isn't exactly verifiable ), she pretty much wasn't reacting with a straight head anyway.

Nope. I guess my point is it can be argued a lot of different ways and have it make sense. I remember hearing some people argue Sheryl did it explicitly because Ranka was there and could see. I just wanted to throw a more positive theory out there. Might have taken it a bit too far, I tend to take things a step further with this to get some insight into not just how a character thinks but also how a character feels, and how the two often interweave to create an action. At least that's my theory on character in general, and I do sometimes use it to fill in gaps where we aren't treated to that character's perspective.

I guess the biggest verifiable realization I came to from all that is how rarely Sheryl actually talks honestly about her feelings. It's kind of a contrast to her singing.

[karice67]

Eh...? It's starting already?
Makes me wonder if I should add the following...

Originally Posted by Lancel

I think this is where the distinction Kawamori makes between Ranka and Sheryl regarding their strength. Ranka actually does confess to Alto she had feelings for him... Sheryl as far as I recall never does this. ... Ranka might be a bit more forward in this regard. She makes her feelings clear, while Sheryl dances around her own.

In the commentary at that point (the kiss between Alto and Sheryl), Kawamori also made the comment that Ranka (more than Sheryl) is the one who really doesn't like losing, i.e. she won't give up.

======

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

That is the greatest thing ever. Thank you.

Itano-sensei is nuts. I cracked up even more at the next story that was posted :

Spoiler for possibly better if you read the entire post at the link above, but for those short on time...:

Entering the Itano Circus

...

Which brings me back to my original question. Why exactly did you strap fifty fireworks to your motorbike?

Itano looks at me askance, as if wondering if I am dim.

“Well,” he says, “that was as many as I could fit. You know, some on the mud guards, some on the cowling, some on the –”

Yes, I say. I see that. But perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes about the meaning of “why”. Why did you do it?

“Oh,” he replies. “We’d been told that it was dangerous. So obviously, we decided to try it. I had my bike on the beach. And my friend had his, and we rode out a ways to give ourselves plenty of run-up, and then we charged each other. On the motorbikes.”

And then, I ventured meekly, you lit the fireworks?

“That’s right. They were all linked together with fuse cord, but I still had to light them. Did you know that a Zippo lighter is still windproof at eighty miles an hour? That’s really impressive, isn’t it?

“So anyway, I lit the fireworks, but they all kind of went off at once. There was this sudden, explosive cloud of smoke, and then there were rockets and firecrackers in my face, looping past me, around me… and it was really weird, sometimes they seemed to hang in space for a moment, as if they weren’t going anywhere. It was because I was still moving, along with them. Relative velocities, you see! Some were moving faster, others slower. And the smoke trails behind them billowed out in yet another direction, carried off by the wind, which was blowing in its own direction, nothing to do with the direction my bike was going. Or not going. Because I fell off. And I think my clothes were on fire by this point.

“So, you know… that’s a daft thing to do. Even if you’re twenty years old and drunk, it’s not recommended. The biking around on the beach is actually more fun than the actual fireworks… But I’m an artist. I put that experience to use. There was a storyboard on an anime show that had a pilot’s eye view of missiles coming towards him. And I said, you know what, that’s not what it looks like. It’s not so linear. I’ve been in the middle of a bunch of rockets going off, and they snake all around you. They don’t always go in the same direction! There are duds, and ones with unexpectedly high charges, and always smoke going in a direction you don’t expect. So I put all that in, and in the show we got this massive explosion of rockets and contrails. And it was pretty good!

“Not long after, Kazutaka Miyatake gives an interview to My Anime magazine, and he mentions this kind of shot, and says that it’s turning up all over anime. It’s turning up in Macross, of course. This kind of three-dimensional positioning within a salvo of rockets, and he calls it an ‘Itano Circus.’ Named after me, you see! How about that?

“Now, for my next trick, I shall re-enact the opening of Star Wars with nothing but a mobile phone…”

Jonathan Clements is the author of Schoolgirl Milky Crisis: Adventures in the Anime and Manga Trade. This article first appeared in SFX Total Anime #3, 2010.

And...I finally went back to those Nyan Dra drama cds... I think I understand why you like first track on vol. 2 but not the vol. 4 one *facepalm* ...and they don't do crazy crack material quite as well as the Geass and Gundam 00 teams do...

[John117xCortana]

Ok. He's crazy ! But his works are awesome because of that !

[magnuskn]

This guy sounds incredibly awesome.

[Ceci-chan]

Originally Posted by karice67

Itano-sensei is nuts. I cracked up even more at the next story that was posted :

Spoiler for possibly better if you read the entire post at the link above, but for those short on time...:

Entering the Itano Circus

...

Which brings me back to my original question. Why exactly did you strap fifty fireworks to your motorbike?

Itano looks at me askance, as if wondering if I am dim.

“Well,” he says, “that was as many as I could fit. You know, some on the mud guards, some on the cowling, some on the –”

Yes, I say. I see that. But perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes about the meaning of “why”. Why did you do it?

“Oh,” he replies. “We’d been told that it was dangerous. So obviously, we decided to try it. I had my bike on the beach. And my friend had his, and we rode out a ways to give ourselves plenty of run-up, and then we charged each other. On the motorbikes.”

And then, I ventured meekly, you lit the fireworks?

“That’s right. They were all linked together with fuse cord, but I still had to light them. Did you know that a Zippo lighter is still windproof at eighty miles an hour? That’s really impressive, isn’t it?

“So anyway, I lit the fireworks, but they all kind of went off at once. There was this sudden, explosive cloud of smoke, and then there were rockets and firecrackers in my face, looping past me, around me… and it was really weird, sometimes they seemed to hang in space for a moment, as if they weren’t going anywhere. It was because I was still moving, along with them. Relative velocities, you see! Some were moving faster, others slower. And the smoke trails behind them billowed out in yet another direction, carried off by the wind, which was blowing in its own direction, nothing to do with the direction my bike was going. Or not going. Because I fell off. And I think my clothes were on fire by this point.

“So, you know… that’s a daft thing to do. Even if you’re twenty years old and drunk, it’s not recommended. The biking around on the beach is actually more fun than the actual fireworks… But I’m an artist. I put that experience to use. There was a storyboard on an anime show that had a pilot’s eye view of missiles coming towards him. And I said, you know what, that’s not what it looks like. It’s not so linear. I’ve been in the middle of a bunch of rockets going off, and they snake all around you. They don’t always go in the same direction! There are duds, and ones with unexpectedly high charges, and always smoke going in a direction you don’t expect. So I put all that in, and in the show we got this massive explosion of rockets and contrails. And it was pretty good!

“Not long after, Kazutaka Miyatake gives an interview to My Anime magazine, and he mentions this kind of shot, and says that it’s turning up all over anime. It’s turning up in Macross, of course. This kind of three-dimensional positioning within a salvo of rockets, and he calls it an ‘Itano Circus.’ Named after me, you see! How about that?

“Now, for my next trick, I shall re-enact the opening of Star Wars with nothing but a mobile phone…”

Jonathan Clements is the author of Schoolgirl Milky Crisis: Adventures in the Anime and Manga Trade. This article first appeared in SFX Total Anime #3, 2010.

This guy rocks.

[user112168]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

No Alto doesn't wear the earring on his ear. That's only in the film. & i really don't see what has you so confused about this. The earring is a good luck charm, so it's best to keep it in a place where it can be seen to remind Alto of said good luck.

My take on earring #1 and #2 is that by the second earring (worn in ear), Alto has accepted kabuki past, earlier in ep#6-7 he was still rejecting his past, it's symbolic in my view

[user112168]

Episode 10 - Random thoughts

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Sheryl's blushing totally gave her away. But she also did it to encourage Ranka, I think. But also because it was an opportunity to kiss him and she took it.

I noticed some scenes throughout ep 10 implying Sheryl is starting to become insecure / concerned in this episode about a possible Ranka X Alto hook-up (can't give exact timings as am travelling), I'm pretty sure it was 3 scenes total (before the kiss).

First - Sheryl shows a concerned frown when Alto on phone to Ranka
Second - Sheryl tells Ranka about Alto-hime's past while on cabin porch, Ranka suddenly leaves - Sheryl has frown look AGAIN (maybe she thinks Ranka is looking for Alto)
Last - Sheryl talks to Alto, but he asks after Ranka - a THIRD frown look from Sheryl

This is all before Sheryl decides to kiss Alto, implying she felt some threat (whether or not u think threat was real) and felt pressure to "get in first" with the kiss.

EDIT : @Lancel : Just saw ur post on ep 10 now and feeling a "D'OH" moment - what u said exactly, I will add though, I think her covering up her vulnerable side starts as early as ep 1. Note the wierd little smile she gives on first ever seeing Alto, then she walks for a bit with a blank expression, and only then turns around to complain about the students backstage - she overreacts to hide her emotional response perhaps ?

@Magunskn : At least the 3 little "looks" i've cited in ep#10 she gives to Alto or Ranka do imply real evidence of her concern, as eloquently expressed by Lancel. One look is to both - while on phone, and then concerned looks to Alto and Ranka, separately (at times when they seem to be going to look for each other).

Actually, I think she already liked him a lot earlier (ep#5 probably) but was expecting to leave by ep#7, so didn't see a future with him to fight for (summer romance). She made her first real attempt in ep#8, when she realized she was staying on Frontier, she thought a heavy-handed domination of Alto's time / attention would win the day (she is only 17 herself remember). I love the sly little smile she makes when using the loss of her earring to get Alto wrapped around her little finger in ep#8, implying she wasn't as distraught over the jewelry as she claimed. She was still using her position to dominate Alto's time up to al least ep#10 (with him being assigned to her project etc), she was upset because Alto x Ranka trying to communicate despite her attempts to dominate his time. The phrase "Trying too hard" comes to mind, hence the later "backfire"

[wisteria233]

Got it right this time
episode 10

Well upside is I get to write about my thoughts on episode 10

Just to point out to Yot-chan someone's thoughts of a series in retrospect can differ from their thoughts of just one episode. Kinda like the re-watch we're doing right now even though most of us have seen the entire series, we stay on topic of just one episode.

I find it interesting how she doesn't like to lose and yet her "love" for Alto is compared to Mao's "love" for Shin, which was wholly one sided, with Shin showing absolutely no interest in her in that manner. It is literally the equivalent of having a crush your older sister's boyfriend. A very cruel allusion, which Ranka ends up understanding despite saying that she wouldn't lose. I could argue though that Mao was much more realistic and mature than Ranka (despite being younger), because knowing when to give up and back down is more mature than continuing to push something that isn't going anywhere. She also finally learns what was public knowledge about Alto. I hope she doesn't take the kiss seriously, I really do, but that can only cause problems for her in the future. Putting that aside with Grace and that dude that needs to fire his barber not breathing down her neck Ranka was able to finally hit it big. Funny even though I say they weren't breathing down her neck they are the reason why Ranka was able to get the role of Mao in the Bird Human movie. After all if they didn't infect the hydra then it wouldn't have attacked the car where the girl who was supposed to play the role as Mao was traveling in. She still would have been just an extra. That's actually kind of ironic the more I think about it.

With Alto though we get to learn more about his past, in this episode. Funnily enough Alto is not that much against acting, he just doesn't want to play a female role. Something about that doesn't fit. Didn't Alto leave the Saotome household because he wanted to get away from acting? But he just doesn't want to play the role of a girl? Maybe Alto doesn't hate acting at all, after all he doesn't make an effort to forget how to act. I also find it interesting that Alto can separate professional work from his own personal life. Which is probably something he learned from when he was small, and because of it he treats the scripted kiss as what it is once the shock wore off, a scripted kiss that means nothing once the camera stops rolling. Also is it just me or did Alto's behavior seem "fake" in this episode, specifically the hydra scene? I can't explain why I think so I just do.

I have made the realization about Sheryl and Michael and also with Alto and Klan. Sheryl is basically a female version of Michael. This came to me when I saw the previous episode, when she asked the same question as Alto. They are very much alike. Ditto with Alto and Klan whose personalities also seem very similar. But maybe its just me.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Lancel

Spoiler for Long Analysis:

And yet- Wait, no, I'm going to save it. Still on episode 10, remember. Episode teeeennnn.

That said, you might consider that you actually get to see part of that in this episode. Sheryl gets pretty thoughtful when she realizes Ranka is asking a lot of questions about Alto. I think it was in this episode (teeennn) that Sheryl realized that Ranka actually is interested in Alto, and that is probably what helped compel her to kiss Alto. Sheryl had been largely toying with him up until that point, and perhaps even Sheryl didn't know she was really interested in Alto. She knew she liked him, but I think when Ranka started showing an interest in him and Sheryl felt... threatened that she realized what she was really feeling about him.

Then Alto and Ranka got the scene where Mao and Shin kiss, and Sheryl again felt a bit threatened. Sheryl was confused, she didn't know exactly what to do, but she felt she had to do something, and soon. So she was largely alone with Alto and thus had an opportunity, what she probably feared could be one of her last opportunities, and she went to romance Alto right there. Yes, Ranka saw, it wasn't perhaps the most ideal circumstances, but fear overrode that. I feel Sheryl did it because she realized she wanted Alto, and she was afraid she'd lose him, not out of pettily denying Ranka, she was genuinely interested in him.

Sheryl gave it a few seconds after she kissed to get Alto's reaction, and she was probably hoping for something more positive than Alto's reaction of WTF. Probably shocked the hell out of our poor blind Hime who was probably thinking of Sheryl as a friend. So when that happened, Sheryl panicked in her head, got worried she was being too forward, too fast, thus the severe blush on her cheeks, then chickened out and brushed it off as more of her relentless teasing. Situation Normal, you're still just Sheryl's favorite little tease target, Alto.

This is largely how she is throughout the series for one reason or another. She's afraid of what might happen if she does go serious with Alto, but life is still going on around her and she's equally afraid of losing him. I think this is where the distinction Kawamori makes between Ranka and Sheryl regarding their strength. Ranka actually does confess to Alto she had feelings for him (and she still does by episode 25, and she's the one to challenge Sheryl in the end and tell her "Hey, I'm still interested in that guy"). Sheryl as far as I recall never does this. She speaks only in actions, but quite effectively, even while her words try to brush it off as nothing. Ranka might be a bit more forward in this regard. She makes her feelings clear, while Sheryl dances around her own.

Anyway, that was a longer analysis than I intended and probably lacks some degree of structure, but I hope it gives some decent thought. Maybe I'm not being too crazy...

BTW, kudos for the dogfight quote. That sounds awesome.

I must say, I think you're right on the money with this. That was a well thought out analysis.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

I find it interesting how she doesn't like to lose and yet her "love" for Alto is compared to Mao's "love" for Shin, which was wholly one sided, with Shin showing absolutely no interest in her in that manner. It is literally the equivalent of having a crush your older sister's boyfriend. A very cruel allusion, which Ranka ends up understanding despite saying that she wouldn't lose. I could argue though that Mao was much more realistic and mature than Ranka (despite being younger), because knowing when to give up and back down is more mature than continuing to push something that isn't going anywhere. She also finally learns what was public knowledge about Alto. I hope she doesn't take the kiss seriously, I really do, but that can only cause problems for her in the future. Putting that aside with Grace and that dude that needs to fire his barber not breathing down her neck Ranka was able to finally hit it big. Funny even though I say they weren't breathing down her neck they are the reason why Ranka was able to get the role of Mao in the Bird Human movie. After all if they didn't infect the hydra then it wouldn't have attacked the car where the girl who was supposed to play the role as Mao was traveling in. She still would have been just an extra. That's actually kind of ironic the more I think about it.

It's interesting you say this. How exactly is it that you believe Ranka "understands" when Alto has not really shown any real romantic interest in either girl at this point. Let's not forget this is episode 10 and going by Sheryl's kiss, I didn't see Alto reciprocating those feelings. He had the same reaction to Ranka's kiss although you could call it acting, but that's where the issue lies for Alto himself (I'll get into this particular topic later though.) The reason Ranka's "acting" was successful was because the feelings were not fabricated so-to-speak. Just like Alto had advised her, "think not and the flower shall bloom, think and the flower shall not." Sheryl's kiss also helped Ranka understand what Mao felt because of her actual feelings for Alto.

Take note in this episode that Ranka did ask Alto about why he knew about acting, but Alto's issues with this topic made him reluctant to respond.

I didn't know going after what you want is immature. Again, this is episode 10. At this point Alto and Ranka's relationship hasn't even reached it's peak, just like Alto and Sheryl's relationship hasn't either. Let's not jump the gun just yet.

Also, let's not take these "homages" (or whatever you want to call it) as "signs" because it's already been proven to divert from past series. Ozma's near death is a perfect example.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

With Alto though we get to learn more about his past, in this episode. Funnily enough Alto is not that much against acting, he just doesn't want to play a female role. Something about that doesn't fit. Didn't Alto leave the Saotome household because he wanted to get away from acting? But he just doesn't want to play the role of a girl? Maybe Alto doesn't hate acting at all, after all he doesn't make an effort to forget how to act. I also find it interesting that Alto can separate professional work from his own personal life. Which is probably something he learned from when he was small, and because of it he treats the scripted kiss as what it is once the shock wore off, a scripted kiss that means nothing once the camera stops rolling. Also is it just me or did Alto's behavior seem "fake" in this episode, specifically the hydra scene? I can't explain why I think so I just do.

I have to kindly disagree here. Alto is against acting in general, the female role is just a kick in the crotch. He even says that he "quit acting, especially in female roles." This was the topic I was referring to earlier and remains Alto's biggest obstacle. Alto despises acting at this point, he didn't even want to talk about it. The reason being that he feels like he loses a piece of himself every time he does so, not just because he's acting as a female. It's a little more complicated than that. He's struggling to find a sense of identity and trying to figure out who the real Alto is, while he feels that acting takes away from who he is.

This is the reason why I disagree with you here because in reality, Alto can't separate acting from who he is. This is why it's difficult to determine when Alto is truly feeling a certain way, he acts according to the circumstances presented to him. You could say that Alto "acts" even outside of just playing the role in the movie. I'm sure this is a topic that will be discussed in further detail down the road. This is what makes Alto such an interesting character for me

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

He had the same reaction to Ranka's kiss although you could call it acting, but that's where the issue lies for Alto himself (I'll get into this particular topic later though.)

Actually he had exact the copy-paste reaction as Shin had. Which makes it clear that he is acting, like the actor he is. He was genuinely shocked at Sheryl kissing him, that much is clear.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Also, let's not take these "homages" (or whatever you want to call it) as "signs" because it's already been proven to divert from past series. Ozma's near death is a perfect example.

Dude, it was a carbon-copy re-enactment of the same exact scene in Macross Zero.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

This is the reason why I disagree with you here because in reality, Alto can't separate acting from who he is. This is why it's difficult to determine when Alto is truly feeling a certain way, he acts according to the circumstances presented to him. You could say that Alto "acts" even outside of just playing the role in the movie. I'm sure this is a topic that will be discussed in further detail down the road. This is what makes Alto such an interesting character for me

I'm sorry, but that is just the interpretation from Yasaburo you are reciting. Altos real feelings on the subject aren't made clear in the series. The movie is another continuity.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Actually he had exact the copy-paste reaction as Shin had. Which makes it clear that he is acting, like the actor he is. He was genuinely shocked at Sheryl kissing him, that much is clear.

Dude, it was a carbon-copy re-enactment of the same exact scene in Macross Zero.

You're taking it out of context. While it may be true that the scene was copied, the implications are entirely different especially considering Alto's character. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just adding another interpretation.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I'm sorry, but that is just the interpretation from Yasaburo you are reciting. Altos real feelings on the subject aren't made clear in the series. The movie is another continuity.

While the movie may have it's differing aspects, it also has it's similar aspects. Honestly, the revelation of Alto's issues with acting in the movie coincides with Alto's character in the TV series, at least in my opinion. It's quite possible that it was made clear in the movie precisely because it was vague in the TV series. It doesn't have anything to do with the plot, but rather the character.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

It's interesting you say this. How exactly is it that you believe Ranka "understands" when Alto has not really shown any real romantic interest in either girl at this point. Let's not forget this is episode 10 and going by Sheryl's kiss, I didn't see Alto reciprocating those feelings. He had the same reaction to Ranka's kiss although you could call it acting, but that's where the issue lies for Alto himself (I'll get into this particular topic later though.) The reason Ranka's "acting" was successful was because the feelings were not fabricated so-to-speak. Just like Alto had advised her, "think not and the flower shall bloom, think and the flower shall not." Sheryl's kiss also helped Ranka understand what Mao felt because of her actual feelings for Alto.

Alto showed more confusion from Sheryl's kiss than anything else, meanwhile with Ranka he was playing the role of Shin, as its almost the same scene word for word expression to expression, and an actor who can't show the right expression of surprise on his face isn't worth a grain of salt. Basically Alto was acting during that scene. And after the shock wore off he treated the scripted kiss as though it was nothing, there is nothing to imply otherwise, and if you say that there was you're gonna have to provide proof, as Alto is a professional and at has no interest in Ranka romantically. Ranka however felt as though it was a serious kiss, her acting wasn't fabricated, it was based on her own feelings, which back to my point was compared to a young girl (Mao) who had a crush on her older sister's(Sara's) boyfriend (Shin) and that doesn't bode well. And while Alto doesn't show any romantic interest in either girls at this point, he's still much closer to Sheryl than he is to Ranka.

Take note in this episode that Ranka did ask Alto about why he knew about acting, but Alto's issues with this topic made him reluctant to respond.

It was public knowledge already (there is website for it), Ranka was just late to the party and didn't wear the right clothes. She should have questioned this two episodes ago when she found out that everyone at school called him princess. It wasn't blatantly said but they did hint at it already.

I didn't know going after what you want is immature. Again, this is episode 10. At this point Alto and Ranka's relationship hasn't even reached it's peak, just like Alto and Sheryl's relationship hasn't either. Let's not jump the gun just yet.

Going after what you want is not immature, however not realizing that something can longer come into your grasp is. Its the reason why people consider sore losers to be so immature especially if they never made any real effort to get what they wanted. I was speaking generally, but yes if Ranka can actually put thoughts and words into action consistently then we'll have something to talk about.

Also, let's not take these "homages" (or whatever you want to call it) as "signs" because it's already been proven to divert from past series. Ozma's near death is a perfect example.

Not a very good example. There are some "homages" that are blatant knowledge to anyone who ever casually watches the Macross series. And there are some that are fanmade. The pineapple cake with Ozma was a fanmade homage, which one wouldn't catch merely from watching the other Macross series. However outright, comparing someone who had a one-sided crush on her older sister's boyfriend is not a homage it is a comparison.

I have to kindly disagree here. Alto is against acting in general, the female role is just a kick in the crotch. He even says that he "quit acting, especially in female roles." This was the topic I was referring to earlier and remains Alto's biggest obstacle. Alto despises acting at this point, he didn't even want to talk about it. The reason being that he feels like he loses a piece of himself every time he does so, not just because he's acting as a female. It's a little more complicated than that. He's struggling to find a sense of identity and trying to figure out who the real Alto is, while he feels that acting takes away from who he is.

So if he hated acting so much then why didn't he avoid this situation and just say "no". If it was just the female roles he wasn't interested in doing then why didn't he just say so to his father? Why give up acting completely? It was a good way to bring food on the table if nothing else. And if he wanted to find out who he was, and didn't want to go back into acting then why didn't he make himself forget how to do it? He was acting as Shin in the movie, he wasn't being himself.

This is the reason why I disagree with you here because in reality, Alto can't separate acting from who he is. This is why it's difficult to determine when Alto is truly feeling a certain way, he acts according to the circumstances presented to him. You could say that Alto "acts" even outside of just playing the role in the movie. I'm sure this is a topic that will be discussed in further detail down the road. This is what makes Alto such an interesting character for me

From reading karice67 post of the commentary from this episode puts something into question, when is Alto not acting? When is he being sincere with himself, and with those around him? And at what point will he stop acting, and be honest with those around him? Yes Alto is an interesting character

[karice67]

Originally Posted by reelyanoob

Episode 10 - Random thoughts
---
Last - Sheryl talks to Alto, but he asks after Ranka - a THIRD frown look from Sheryl

Reverse order: he's just asked after Ranka when she butted into the conversation, but you're right that it seemed to bother her.

I would like to point out, however, that (1) the show doesn't cover the time between the filming of "The Bird Human" and its release, and (2) that Sheryl, as Kawamori et al noted in the commentary, seemed to have resolved to accept Ranka as a (friendly) rival in the entertainment world by the time of the premiere.

Going by production schedules IRL, the missing time should amount to a few months at the very least. Did nothing of interest happen during those few months?

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Actually he had exact the copy-paste reaction as Shin had. Which makes it clear that he is acting, like the actor he is. He was genuinely shocked at Sheryl kissing him, that much is clear.

Remember however, the advice that "you have to become the role" which he gives to Ranka in this episode. I would say he's not 'acting', he's becoming the character, like the actor he is. The question is, can he separate this role from who he is?

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I'm sorry, but that is just the interpretation from Yasaburo you are reciting. Altos real feelings on the subject aren't made clear in the series. The movie is another continuity.

Whilst I should probably rewatch that scene again first, I'd probably agree with Yasaburo, especially given what Kawamori says in this episode's commentary regarding the original source for Alto's advice.

「秘すれば花なり　秘せずは花なるべからず」
(hi sureba hana ni nari, hi sezu ha hana narubekarazu)
- basically is advice for the actor to be mysterious, to hide something from the audience, because that will give the audience room to use their imagination to figure out a character's motivations by themselves. In doing so, you keep the audience's interest, because having everything spelled out for you really isn't fun.

With the above example, viewers are left pondering whether what Yasuburo says is true or not...and to me, it's seems to make sense, especially considering the advice Alto gives to Ranka in this episode.

so...

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

YWhile the movie may have it's differing aspects, it also has it's similar aspects. Honestly, the revelation of Alto's issues with acting in the movie coincides with Alto's character in the TV series, at least in my opinion. It's quite possible that it was made clear in the movie precisely because it was vague in the TV series. It doesn't have anything to do with the plot, but rather the character.

I agree. I believe the same materials have been used by the production team (Kawamori, the directors, the animators, the seiyuu) to create the same character, and this "fear of acting because he doesn't know where the boundaries between him and the characters he plays are" is part of Alto in all versions of the story.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by karice67

Reverse order: he's just asked after Ranka when she butted into the conversation, but you're right that it seemed to bother her.

I would like to point out, however, that (1) the show doesn't cover the time between the filming of "The Bird Human" and its release, and (2) that Sheryl, as Kawamori et al noted in the commentary, seemed to have resolved to accept Ranka as a (friendly) rival in the entertainment world by the time of the premiere.

Going by production schedules IRL, the missing time should amount to a few months at the very least. Did nothing of interest happen during those few months?

Remember however, the advice that "you have to become the role" which he gives to Ranka in this episode. I would say he's not 'acting', he's becoming the character, like the actor he is. The question is, can he separate this role from who he is?

That maybe true but let's take into account how did Alto treat the situation, especially after the fact? Especially after it happens how does does he treat it. There is something about immersing oneself into a role is that ones one ability to separate them self from that role is dependent on how attached they are to said role, as well as how long they were playing it, and how they were prepped for it. If neither criteria is met then even an actor who has problems separating himself from the roles he plays won't have a problem separating himself from a brief role he/she once played, because it was too brief for them to gain any attachment to, and probably didn't have that much preparation for.

That being said Alto acting as Shin in the movie for that specific scene would mean we would have to look at Shin's own reaction to Mao was at that time, and after wards. Because if Alto did immerse himself into the role then you'd have to look at Shin and his own behavior towards Mao. Did Shin consider it a kiss, or just mouth to mouth resuscitation? Did he spare any second thought to it?

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

You're taking it out of context.

I don't think you know what that means...

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

While it may be true that the scene was copied, the implications are entirely different especially considering Alto's character. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just adding another interpretation.

Look, that wasn't a spontaneous scene. That was a scene where Alto and Ranka re-eneacted, panel for panel, the exact same scene from Macross Zero. Ranka took some deeper meaning from that than there was, that's documented in the series. But you imply that Alto took the kiss as a real kiss from his side, and there is really no indication of that in the series.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

While the movie may have it's differing aspects, it also has it's similar aspects. Honestly, the revelation of Alto's issues with acting in the movie coincides with Alto's character in the TV series, at least in my opinion. It's quite possible that it was made clear in the movie precisely because it was vague in the TV series. It doesn't have anything to do with the plot, but rather the character.

I especially consider the "I fear getting lost in my characters" speech from the movie to be of separate continuity, since it was not what I was getting at all from Alto in the series. It's not an aspect which I think enhanced the character, rather the contrary.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by karice67

Going by production schedules IRL, the missing time should amount to a few months at the very least. Did nothing of interest happen during those few months?

We will never know, I fear. Although it could be argued that the comics where Sheryl is class president could conceivably have happened in that timeframe.

Originally Posted by karice67

Remember however, the advice that "you have to become the role" which he gives to Ranka in this episode. I would say he's not 'acting', he's becoming the character, like the actor he is. The question is, can he separate this role from who he is?

Given that he gave absolutely no indication in the following time of having had any emotional repercussions from the acted kiss, I'd say, yes, he can. We don't see him prancing around like Princess Sakura, either, are we?

Originally Posted by karice67

Whilst I should probably rewatch that scene again first, I'd probably agree with Yasaburo, especially given what Kawamori says in this episode's commentary regarding the original source for Alto's advice.

「秘すれば花なり　秘せずは花なるべからず」
(hi sureba hana ni nari, hi sezu ha hana narubekarazu)
- basically is advice for the actor to be mysterious, to hide something from the audience, because that will give the audience room to use their imagination to figure out a character's motivations by themselves. In doing so, you keep the audience's interest, because having everything spelled out for you really isn't fun.

With the above example, viewers are left pondering whether what Yasuburo says is true or not...and to me, it's seems to make sense, especially considering the advice Alto gives to Ranka in this episode.

Good advice for acting, but it doesn't seem to say that Alto was doing that in his real life. Don't forget, Yasaburos assertion was that Alto is always only acting in real life, not showing his true emotions. That does not ring true at all to the character for me. I think a lot of people are conflating "acting" with just being reserved and willfully ignoring some of the things happening around him.

Originally Posted by karice67

so...
I agree. I believe the same materials have been used by the production team (Kawamori, the directors, the animators, the seiyuu) to create the same character, and this "fear of acting because he doesn't know where the boundaries between him and the characters he plays are" is part of Alto in all versions of the story.

I can't say I agree at all. That's movie version Alto. Series Alto doesn't display this fear, not at all.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I don't think you know what that means...

You, sir, are quoting it wrong.