(L) Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 (BONES)

[Kaioshin Sama]

Even if the Yuuki device has gotten pretty annoying (Him disappearing and reappearing and eventually just fading back in had me feeling that I had seen this twist done much better in The Sixth Sense) as they continued to flirt with it until the end of the episode, I'm still asking myself the question as to whether this has really affected the shows quality as a whole and how I feel about the characters or just a certain aspect of it/them. In response I still have to pretty much say no it hasn't and that I really liked the presentation of this episode where we see that as Mirai is finally almost back home at long last, and even as the losses of this disaster start to catch up to her and her friends, that they are still trying to find a way to be happy again. The last episode seems like it's going to be a test as to whether Mirai can move on from this traumatizing week and ever be comfortable and happy again, or whether the losses will ultimately come back to overwhelm her for the rest of her life.

Man if Mirai has mixed feelings going into the next episode then so do I. I'm pretty much the opposite of most people who claim to not care anymore going into the last episode. I have every reason to want to see how this ends because even with a weak twist being introduced with Yuuki's death I can't deny that through it all I've come to care about and empathize with these characters plights thanks to the execution of the larger narrative. In my eyes that still makes Tokyo Magnitude a pretty damn great series and it's still my favourite of the season.

By the way, BSS translation has the quote "I'm dead" for Yuuki at the end (and in fact I recognize what he said audibly to be "boku shin jata" [sp?] which even if wrote it wrong I'm pretty sure literally means "I am dead") as opposed to "I am a ghost" (which would I think be something more like "boku wa yūrei"), which is pretty much the dividing line between fantasy and delusion, where it still seems like he could be a reflection of her inner mind realizing the truth, which would coincide with the visual of her thinking and then us being shown a flashback to Yuuki being wheeled into the hospital. Guess we'll find out next time.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

By the way, BSS translation has the quote "I'm dead" for Yuuki at the end (and in fact I recognize what he said audibly to be "boku shin jata" [sp?] which even if wrote it wrong I'm pretty sure literally means "I am dead") as opposed to "I am a ghost" (which would I think be something more like "boku wa yūrei"), which is pretty much the dividing line between fantasy and delusion, where it still seems like he could be a reflection of her inner mind realizing the truth, which would coincide with the visual of her thinking and then us being shown a flashback to Yuuki being wheeled into the hospital. Guess we'll find out next time.

"boku shin jatan da" is how i heard it. the "Da" is important to mean "i am dead" without the "Da" it will mean "i died". The important think here is that if he was an hallucination created by Mirai she will think he saying "i died" instead of saying "I am dead".

[FireChick]

A really well voiced cameo from Kitamura Eri as Mayu, and one I didn't find quite so satisfying from one of my favorite seiyuus, Sawashiro Miyuki, as Itsuki. Too obviously not a little boy's voice.

Speaking of the first episode, did anyone think the other character (Yuka) is voiced by Toyosaki Aki? I noticed she sounded like Yui when she said "Course! Mirai should come too!" in the first episode.

[achirist]

I am one of those who really cannot be asked to care anymore; this was such a cheap, amatueur, lame plot development/manipulation that it cancels out the earthquake story. As it is, they might as well go with an NGE type of ending.


It would be more interesting, instead of dragging out the 'yuuki's death' story, to show what happens after the earthquake; when things are to be rebuilt. With the Asian tsunami and hurricane katrina, there were very high-pitched battles between civil society organizations/regular people who wanted an equitable reconstruction and the business community that wished to profit/funnel public money into their pockets and use this opportunity to build condos and resorts where poor people's homes were, leaving them homeless, and also privitize the local water, public school systems, etc. What about a few episodes about that? They also could have shown people trying to rebuild their lives in the aftermath.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by RedWing

How does a realistic docu-drama about a possible earthquake make a discussion about whether a character is a ghost or a visual-auditory hallucination?

One thing you have to remember is that the dead have a lot more of a day-to-day presence in people's lives in Japan. How many shows have you seen where people have little shrines to dead fathers, mothers, children, spouses, etc., where they say prayers and leave offerings? I've never been to Japan, but I'd imagine that a fair number of households have shrines like that, at least enough so that it's not weird for people to see them in their TV shows.

[Ashlotte]

How can you talk about quick unexpected death and this situation in the same breath is beyond me...If they had sucker-punched us with a sudden death then sure, but they've for some misguided reason felt the need to drag this on and on and on while bludgeoning us over the head with not so subtle hints that he was already dead the whole time...

Meh whatever I think Vexx summed it up for me in a far more civil way...

[FTV]

Agree with philip72 completely.

[Daniel E.]

Well now, took me a while to catch up with the latest episode and I see that the thread has gotten quite active since the last time I posted here.

I honestly don't have any problems with the latest developments, and I still find myself enjoying the show.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by achirist

I am one of those who really cannot be asked to care anymore; this was such a cheap, amatueur, lame plot development/manipulation that it cancels out the earthquake story.

How exactly does it cancel out the earthquake story? Did it cause everything else related to the earthquake aftermath events not to happen? Are all of the things we felt before Yuki's death no longer real or valid? What about the parts with Mari reuniting with Hina? What about the scene with Mirai looking at Yuki's art and crying? Is that somehow cancelled out by this one event too? I seriously can't understand this degree of destructive criticism that only seeks to crucify the show over one issue. And yes I'm calling it destructive criticism because the only thing it's really doing is showing the path towards disliking the entire show rather than towards weighing the whole entire presentation and looking at what was done well as well as what could have been done better and what wasn't done well.

It seems to me some people aren't even trying to look at this show with open eyes anymore and just want to bludgeon it for one specific thing it didn't do to their satisfaction in an "I was there" moment. Where does this lead us....well I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice how for the most part extended discussion on this show and the episodes content seems to have stopped all but stopped cold because of this destructive criticism push, and not for a lack of other things to discuss about it either. Fun stuff.....

[SuperKnuckles]

Finally the dead horse speaks! (sorry, too soon).

But wow, I really feel sorry for Yuuki's friend who had to experience Mirai's breakdown first hand. They even showed how it seemed he was a little scared of Mirai in the middle of that episode.

[Claies]

Originally Posted by achirist

I am one of those who really cannot be asked to care anymore; this was such a cheap, amatueur, lame plot development/manipulation that it cancels out the earthquake story. As it is, they might as well go with an NGE type of ending.


It would be more interesting, instead of dragging out the 'yuuki's death' story, to show what happens after the earthquake; when things are to be rebuilt. With the Asian tsunami and hurricane katrina, there were very high-pitched battles between civil society organizations/regular people who wanted an equitable reconstruction and the business community that wished to profit/funnel public money into their pockets and use this opportunity to build condos and resorts where poor people's homes were, leaving them homeless, and also privitize the local water, public school systems, etc. What about a few episodes about that? They also could have shown people trying to rebuild their lives in the aftermath.

Because these are things that children like Yuuki and Mirai won't care about, even if the latter would like to convince everyone that she is an adult. She's not going to stand up amidst conflict and take control like some 20-year-old hot, white wonder woman they show in cliched works. 14-year-olds cry for parents and home.

Now, the way I think you want them to do this would be to have three separate storylines of drastically different people reacting to the disaster, but splitting character development in 12 episodes in three pieces just won't work. There would also be a timeskip every episode to portray all the social conflicts you mentioned. Lastly, I'd be hard-pressed to care for that many characters. There would be at least three people that I'd wish the plot to just not touch again. I prefer how we only have to hear about three (now one) characters, and see the full view of their experiences.

EDIT: Actually, I think you want one-shot episodes portraying the government, business, and laypeople. You can probably blame them not doing this on marketing. This fits in a novel, and the TV-watching audience isn't going to care.

[Sol Falling]

ep 10:

The Mirai crying without knowing why scenes were pretty touching. I guess; actually, wait, that might just be the inherent emotion in being unable to control one's tears speaking to me, iunno. I didn't quite care for the rest of the episode: the way most of the tension seemed to revolve upon when other people would realize Mirai was delusional, made for an unpleasant viewing experience in general (I feel bad being forced to watch people going around obliviously embarassing themselves; it's just plain demeaning).

Anyway, I can live with Yuuki being a ghost. Doesn't do much for my overall impression of the show, though.

[Sorrow-K]

Ep 10

I think this just shows plainly how weak the whole Mirai delusion thing was, because they probably could have written it out and this would have been rather dramatic. The classroom scene was a really good opportunity to have Mirai in a moment where she could really reflect on Yuuki's death, without distraction, and properly mourn. Instead we get this whole contrived, stretched-out back-and-forth with Yuuki appearing every time Mirai was alone that just came off as really awkward. The character she spent the most time interacting with pretty much ended up thinking she was crazy... why does Bones think the audience isn't going to be thinking the exact same thing about Mirai as Itsuki did?

And if it turns out he's a ghost... well, so much for realism. A sense of "realism" is already pretty much shot, but given the premise's seeming regard towards realism, Yuuki turning out to be a ghost rather than a delusion goes past "careless" and well into the realm of "insulting".

This ep, IMO, really puts Mirai's delusion past the point of "annoying inconsistency". I can totally see why people are hung up on it. It weakens (and almost cripples) the rest of what this show is trying to say on a character- and thematic level.

The other criticism is that the show has become predictable. When Yuuki urged Mirai to follow Itsuki into the house, who didn't see a tremor coming, and Mirai needing to save Itsuki? Real life doesn't give such fragrant warnings about what's coming next. The writers need a new trick. I can't believe they'd run out of new ideas after just ten episodes...

[fish eric]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

How exactly does it cancel out the earthquake story? Did it cause everything else related to the earthquake aftermath events not to happen? Are all of the things we felt before Yuki's death no longer real or valid? What about the parts with Mari reuniting with Hina? What about the scene with Mirai looking at Yuki's art and crying? Is that somehow cancelled out by this one event too? I seriously can't understand this degree of destructive criticism that only seeks to crucify the show over one issue. And yes I'm calling it destructive criticism because the only thing it's really doing is showing the path towards disliking the entire show rather than towards weighing the whole entire presentation and looking at what was done well as well as what could have been done better and what wasn't done well.

It seems to me some people aren't even trying to look at this show with open eyes anymore and just want to bludgeon it for one specific thing it didn't do to their satisfaction in an "I was there" moment. Where does this lead us....well I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice how for the most part extended discussion on this show and the episodes content seems to have stopped all but stopped cold because of this destructive criticism push, and not for a lack of other things to discuss about it either. Fun stuff.....

Eh, don't let it bug you dude. Some people think they are smarter/have greater taste than everyone else and nothing is good enough for them.


I liked this episode alot better than the last, but I felt they dragged out Yuuki's "Im dead" too long. That should have happened right before the half time commercial break. Waiting until the end really through the pacing off for me.

What I think is really cool about Yuuki's death is that he isn't a hallucination and he isn't Mirai's subconscious. He is an actual ghost/spirit. You can tell because of how he knew that Mari's family was still alive.

How many episodes are left?

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

Ep 10

I think this just shows plainly how weak the whole Mirai delusion thing was, because they probably could have written it out and this would have been rather dramatic. The classroom scene was a really good opportunity to have Mirai in a moment where she could really reflect on Yuuki's death, without distraction, and properly mourn. Instead we get this whole contrived, stretched-out back-and-forth with Yuuki appearing every time Mirai was alone that just came off as really awkward. The character she spent the most time interacting with pretty much ended up thinking she was crazy... why does Bones think the audience isn't going to be thinking the exact same thing about Mirai as Itsuki did?

And if it turns out he's a ghost... well, so much for realism. A sense of "realism" is already pretty much shot, but given the premise's seeming regard towards realism, Yuuki turning out to be a ghost rather than a delusion goes past "careless" and well into the realm of "insulting".

This ep, IMO, really puts Mirai's delusion past the point of "annoying inconsistency". I can totally see why people are hung up on it. It weakens (and almost cripples) the rest of what this show is trying to say on a character- and thematic level.

The other criticism is that the show has become predictable. When Yuuki urged Mirai to follow Itsuki into the house, who didn't see a tremor coming, and Mirai needing to save Itsuki? Real life doesn't give such fragrant warnings about what's coming next. The writers need a new trick. I can't believe they'd run out of new ideas after just ten episodes...

As for me before I watched this episode I had already told myself to just take her delusions and accept it for what it's worth. At least for episode 9 she was constitently delusional and it was brought out properly to some degree. Realism was thrown out with the trash already so I left it there when it was gone. I was at the very least hoping that they would be consistent with her mental status and delusions and keep it up since they started it.

Now, by making Yuuki a ghost and not some figment of her mentally shattered status, they even threw that consitency out with the realism. They jumped from realism to accelerated mental degeneration to the utterly paranormal. I mean really now, that's a lot of gear shifting for 3 episodes. They led us on thinking he was somewhere between dead or alive, then symbolically confirm that he is and Mirai's seeing things as a result of her diminished mental status, and now we get told he's probably a ghost trailing Mirai. If I was Itsuki I'd be running away screaming by now.

I can take the thematic shifting and all that. If that's what the writers and BONES wants to do with it, fine, but when the storytelling itself is getting affected...

[BetoJR]

Who told us that he was a ghost, again?

Isn't that all conjecture, yet?

That being the case, I believe some of you guys are coming down way too hard on the situation. I've personally experienced traumas like this and I've witnessed people behaving in a far more ridiculous way than Mirai, after some (constant) floods in my region. Let's see how this goes...

I'm still enjoying this, and I find the show way more interesting than almost anything coming out this season. But that's just me.

[guenthar]

Where in this show does it indicate he is a ghost when everything has indicated that he is a delusion. The part with finding Mari's mother and daughter was Mirai's mind not excepting that Mari's family was dead so insisting they were alive. Mirai's subconscious mind is slowly excepting Yuuki's death throughout episode 10 and Yuuki is her subconscious mind telling her that Yuuki is dead.

PS. Most research on delusional states are in normal situations and not in the kind of situation (Earthquake) they are in right now in the show. Also Mirai is a child a (like I said in a previous post) children can have delusions without having a psychological problem and many children have imaginary friends which are similar to what is happening with Mirai except in Mirai's case it was caused by the trauma of losing her brother.

People are probably going to ignore me again and I may not have a degree in child psychology but I have taken many classes on the subject and am pretty sure I know what I am talking about on the subject. Even with that people that are set to hate the show will just ignore the facts anyways.

Sorry about the sentence I edited out since I have some short term memory problems and forget to check my posts and forget what I am trying to say.

[MeoTwister5]

Man I didn't know that having a dissenting opinion was illegal in this thread. It's sort of ironic that it's the critics who are trying to be polite as possible with regards to the show while some of the defenders enjoy passive-aggressive dissing of the critics with allusions to "ignoring the facts" (that aren't even presented), to "critics think they're smater than fans" (which is really nothing more than ad hominem) to "critics don't have a right to post their thoughts" (which is really downright absurd).

I was going to respond to BetoJr and Kaioshin because they bring up some valid arguments about me and the other critic's approach on the show and the way we interpret things, but hey if every one esle feels that any sort of contrary opinions are automatically unwelcomed then fine, I'll stay away from this thread from now on.

[HunterSeeker]

Finished this episode. Still great and emotionally shocking (though most of us know the truth last week already).

In particular, I think the reason of why Yuuki keeps running away in the school is, IMO, because Mirai still can't accept his death------in two occations it's shown that Mirai somehow knows the fact (at least subconsciously, if not why she nearly cried twice?).
In fact, such an idea hurt me more than the moment that Yuuki says he's officially dead.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I was going to respond to BetoJr and Kaioshin because they bring up some valid arguments about me and the other critic's approach on the show and the way we interpret things, but hey if every one esle feels that any sort of contrary opinions are automatically unwelcomed then fine, I'll stay away from this thread from now on.

I don't think you should care about such assessments, as long as things stay civil. I, for one, would welcome your responses.