Fairy Tail Anime Episode Discussion Thread [Episode 165 and Onward]

[mystogan]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

If if we accept your reasoning about the others, you still admit that she lost legitimately to Jose. So the ultimate points stands: She hasn't won all her fights.

When you yourself set up the conditions, and someone else meets them, will you agree to honorably adjust your stance then? According to your own standards and agreement, Erza isn't perfect.

And as Krono pointed out, her "love" such as it is, isn't really a factor, either. She may love someone, but she doesn't have him. And they may not end up getting together (I can see Jellal sacrificing himself for her). They were separated once before. Hell, by that definition, Jet and Droy are perfect since they have love.

so if there is a tiny hole in my theory, that doesn't prove my entire point wrong, all of this still doesn't give an explanation that she is not overpowered.i don't think a tiny flaw in my theory proves my entire theory wrong

now i am getting the feeling just because i am the only one doing this, no one is even trying to understand what i am trying to say, because everyone is a damn Erza Worshiper

[mtgowns]

christ, mate:

People think you're silly because Erza IS supposed to be tremendously powerful but and it has been established that way in the canon as a cold, hard fact in the Tower of Heaven arc. The outcome of her fights simply support what was established long ago.

But she isn't invincible. She's been defeated by two Saints. She can't take on a guild like Oracion Seis herself. Cobra didn't beat her out of bad luck.

I'm not sure what else you want. A wizard who would good enough to be named a Saint posthumously isn't going to get beat all the time.

[Eisdrache]

I'm definitely not an Erza worshipper but god dammit.

There are at least three gaping holes in your argument, yet you're still stuck with formalities. Let's face it: You don't like Erza because in your eyes she got looks, strength, admiration, love, everything, and characters like that are not to your taste.

There is no point in arguing over that.

You can nitpick all you want, the rest of us will just move forward.

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by mystogan

so if there is a tiny hole in my theory, that doesn't prove my entire point wrong, all of this still doesn't give an explanation that she is not overpowered.i don't think a tiny flaw in my theory proves my entire theory wrong

now i am getting the feeling just because i am the only one doing this, no one is even trying to understand what i am trying to say, because everyone is a damn Erza Worshiper

Err, yes it does. Your whole "case" rests on the statement that she wins all her fights, which you yourself admitted to be false. Then as Krono pointed out, if she was "perfect" she would not have let Simon die or be deceived by Jellal for so long. But of course these are inconvenient facts to you so you ignore them

And yes, when you can't put your argument with proper logical reasoning accuse the people on the other side of the argument of being fanatic nutjobs

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by mystogan

so if there is a tiny hole in my theory, that doesn't prove my entire point wrong, all of this still doesn't give an explanation that she is not overpowered.i don't think a tiny flaw in my theory proves my entire theory wrong

now i am getting the feeling just because i am the only one doing this, no one is even trying to understand what i am trying to say, because everyone is a damn Erza Worshiper

That's what it has come down to? Ad hominem? If you can't beat the argument, call someone names? I don't think you want to go there dude, because it just means you've realized your argument has fallen through.

And it's not a teeny flaw, as others have pointed out. And that is with us accepting your reasoning towards the other fights (which I only did for the sake of argument). I actually don't accept your reasoning, because when you made your first declaration of "Erza wins all her fights" you didn't qualify it with anything. I simply showed you not one, not two, not three, but four fights she didn't win, and one other she only managed due to luck, not her skill.

If you aren't going to qualify your arguments when you make them, then don't get upset if people answer you with answers you don't like.

Oh, and not that it will mean much to you, but I'm not an "Erza worshiper" which is a name you are trying to apply in a derogatory manner. I like her, but just as much as everyone else.

[Tempest35]

...I have to say, mystogan, I almost admire your tenacity against what you believe is Erza being overpowered and whatnot.

Even if others shared your sentiment, they wouldn't voice them for calling down the Wrath of the 'Scarlet Horde' upon them. But you had to know this was going to happen. It's a proven statistic: 2 out of every 1 Fairy Tail fan is an Erza fan - no exceptions. (Yes, I'm making jokes, it's what I do. )

Seriously though, it's hard to 'understand' what you're saying because the logic in your arguments pretty much boils down to that you just don't like her because she's Fairy Tail's 'Lil Miss Perfect' that can't do no wrong and everyone loves her because she's Erza... Which, in all honesty, is pretty troll-ish sounding.

Okay, you don't like Erza - got it, we all got it. But if you try and present 'facts' in your case like this, just be prepared for this type of rebuttal. And to be honest, your 'facts' weren't very good ones either, they sounded more like your perceptions of her, which is purely subjective in nature, rather than 'factual reasons'. I'm not going to go into a detailed, step-by-step rebuttal since others have done so already and there is no need for it.

Erza is 'perfect' in spite of her flaws. She can still feel the pain of despair, guilt, self-loathing. She can be over-confident and proud but she has the skills and power to back it up. I can't bash you too much because I have a similar disdain for Jellal which can be summed up in that I just don't like him with Erza - simple as that.

[FlareKnight]

I do wonder if we've kind of crossed a line where this should just have migrated to Erza's character thread. We're not really debating the last episode any longer.

So will just say this. Erza isn't my favorite character in the show, but still had fun with this episode. Thought despite the limited blood Erza's VA and the animation still managed to give the impression on how exhausting this gauntlet was getting.

Seems like we're going to continue bouncing back and forth between me disliking Raven Tail or Sabertooth more. One always does something incredibly frustrating to draw attention back to them.

[Ultramarinus]

The funniest thing is that mystogan had told that "he liked her until this arc". Sorry mate, someone doesn't spend two days arguing about 'why a character needs to be disliked' and go as far as bending the facts (the absurd 'she never lost' claim) to make up an argument.

We understand that you hate, detest her and feel the need to prove why she's bad. Not really getting what it's about though. She's not a Mary Sue if you're getting at that. She's strong in ability and character though, and thankfully so. She's a joy to watch and for me, what keeps me with FT. Oh and Happy. One awesome badass, one great comic relief and I'm all set.

[Pinwheel10]

Gaaah, I can't believe the opening showed

Spoiler for OP spoiler:

Raven Tail Alexei's true identity

[mystogan]

FINE!!! , Erza is a goddess , HAPPY!!!

looks like i am not able to explain my statements properly, still none of the posts has changed what i wanted to say from the start
so let's just move on with this argument as it had dragged enough

(and this post does not mean that i have admitted that i am wrong or my points are stupid and baseless, i am now tired of explaining the same thing to everybody over and over again)

[Eragon]

Seriously dude, control yourself

You can hate her all you want, we(the one's who have been arguing) don't care either way. But when you give subjective reasons for it and present them as if they are facts, that's where we feel the need to butt-in.

[kitten320]

Jellal doesn't count because Erza was never serious in that fight. Jellal is the only person she will never fight seriously because she is head over heels into him.

Erza took a massive canon head on and destroyed the crying guy. She was barely standing at that point. If she had taken down a guild master in that condition I would have been raging YEARS AGO!
Besides that happened so long ago that it doesn't even matter now.

Just because Erza was established as strong character doesn't mean that she is invincible. Taison is a strong/one of the best boxer's but even he lost!

Besides as you all said Gildarts is stronger yet for some reason Erza never encountered an enemy of that level. They are never around unless Gildarts is there and to be honest even then such opponent appeared only once.

Natsu is an MC but even he lost far more.

What makes Erza worse is that she is always portrayed as a knight in shining armor. Everyone has their demons but never Erza. no matter where disaster happens she always has perfect timing and reaction. There is always something happening to make her look perfect. Natsu as an MC never got such treatment as she does and it only gets worse in manga.

[Tempest35]

Putting my reply in the 'Erza Character Disccusion thread' before a mod comes in and does an early spring cleaning. The topic has moved beyond what she had done in just this episode to all-encompassing.

Reply

As for the actual episode:

Who else, in Fairy Tail, and in the other guild teams could duplicate what Erza did?

I think Laxus stands a good chance to do it, as well as Jura. I'll even throw in 'Mystogun' as a possible. Kagura is up in the air... Sting and Rogue, I'd give them 60 monsters each.

[Ultramarinus]

Uh, nobody has a more glaring plot armor than Natsu. If anything, such a dumb character should be losing oftentimes but shounen logic dictates the dumber you get, the more successful your battles are. "I'M DED, MOETAKITAZOOOO, IWIN." Natsu, Naruto, Ichigo, etc etc. Erza is a refreshing change from other leading females, being both strong and clever, also not one that's a constantly a damsel in distress that needs to be saved (Lucy, Orihime etc) but someone who carries her own weight. She's good at what she does and to be honest, I'd rather watch a lead with >75 IQ. I still don't see why she needs to lose even more than she already does.

I think Jura, Laxus, Mirajane, Kagura and Minerva could do it. That's of course excluding perma-plot armored characters.

[Kaijo]

Decided to follow Tempest's example and move the Erza discussion to the Erza thread. kitten320, you can find my reply to you there, if you want to continue to discuss it.

And yes, Ultra, I kinda agree. Natsu is the typical shonen lead, so he's got plot armor where needed. He' can be defeated at times during a story, but takes on the big bad and wins in the end. Well, except for the Galuna island arc, where he did win a few times, but didn't actually beat the big bad. Phantom arc might count, too, since he didn't fight Jose, who could have been considered the big bad.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Tempest35

I think Laxus stands a good chance to do it, as well as Jura. I'll even throw in 'Mystogun' as a possible. Kagura is up in the air... Sting and Rogue, I'd give them 60 monsters each.

Jura, "Mystogan", and Laxus definitely. Kagura likely. Mirajane possibly. Sabertooth's strongest fighters, a bit of a long shot, but possible. Orga did get nearly half the score that Jura did, so it depends on how close that is to Erza, and how the rest stack up to him.

Leon, it depends on how much he's improved in the last seven years. Gray and Juvia, depends on how well they stack up to Leon. Natsu and Gajeel, kind of depends on how well they stack up to Sabertooth's DS, and how well said ST DS stack up to Orga. And that's pretty much it. Raven Tail's too much of an unknown quantity to say.

[mtgowns]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Decided to follow Tempest's example and move the Erza discussion to the Erza thread. kitten320, you can find my reply to you there, if you want to continue to discuss it.

And yes, Ultra, I kinda agree. Natsu is the typical shonen lead, so he's got plot armor where needed. He' can be defeated at times during a story, but takes on the big bad and wins in the end. Well, except for the Galuna island arc, where he did win a few times, but didn't actually beat the big bad. Phantom arc might count, too, since he didn't fight Jose, who could have been considered the big bad.

Natsu got destroyed by Aria who wasn't even using his full power, although he did wreck Gajeel later.

[Kaijo]

I know, but I was only looking at arcs where Natsu did *not* fight the big bad. So Galuna nd Phantom arcs were what I was counting. Aria wasn't the big bad.

[ellessarr]

i think sometimes for the sake of "hate" some peoples begin to distort things as they were

let's see where natsu defeat alone a boss and never loose a fight:
macao arc - natsu defeated a with lucy help a trash sasquatch this doens't really count as a real fight

daybreak arc - natsu defeated 2 middle level guys not the villian, lucy defeated the villian who was a weakling anyway

lullaby arc - natsu defeated erigor, but the last enemy was the flute who was a team work - no loose

galuna island - natsu natsu defeated the dog man, and the little guy had a hard time in the first meet with lyon and ended in a tie with him because gray asked to fight lyon, then natsu make ultear(disguised as old man) run with one punch, this arc was gray who defeated lyon, deliora was a joke no fight in the end

phantom lord arc - natsu loose to aria and defeated gajeel, erza also loose to jose who was defeated by makarov

loki arc - lucy only arc

tower of heaven arc - natsu was beaten / eaten by the owl man, defeated jellal, erza wins against the sword girl but was unable to really fight agains jellal and loose

festival arc - natsu team up with gajeel to defeat laxus, while erza defeated a weak evergreen

oracion six arc - every one was beaten in the first meet with oracion six, natsu almost loose to cobra(win purely by lucky in find cobra weakness), defeated zero, erza defeated midnight

daphni arc - natsu was captured and used as power source to the mechanical dragon, was a full guild arc fight

edolas arc - natsu defeated the male huges and with dragonslayer teamwork(natsu, gajeel and wendy) defeated the king mechanical dragon, while erza ended in a tie with edolas erza(she was just a few less injured/tired)

tenroujima arc, natsu ended in a tie with ultear, loose to gildarts, with "lucy firer(teamwork with lucy in a lovely and fun moment ^^)" defeated kain, natsu defeated zancrow. loose to bluenote and with full teamwork(lucy, gray, erza, natsu, wendy and laxus) defeated hades, erza defeated ozuma after a hard time.

cloack of the skys arc - natsu loose all the first fights with almost every one (sugarboy, dan, byron, mary huges, speeder) defeated dan midnight, the machine guy) erza defeated cobra

well for me dont look who natsu alone defeated everyone and never loose and erza in the same boat, look much more like for the sake of hates peoples start to forget what really happens

[Eragon]

Hmm, Jura, Laxus, Kagura, Jellal, Mirajane(not quite sure) could have done it. Oh and probably Cana too - Fairy Glitter would have been enough I think.