Macross Frontier (Macross 25) general discussion [No Spoilers]

[DeX-kun]

First off, thank you very much for the information Yot-chan (although I already saw it at MW )

Originally Posted by BetoJR

"Unsourced mysterious radio show", eh? I thought the Radio Frontier was quite popular, even after the show ended, but I guess I would be wrong in thinking that way.

Well according to this article, it seems like Ohnogi wasn't even involved although I'm not too sure of it myself considering how much information has been posted already dealing with Ohnogi, it's kind of hard to believe. I mean, why would someone go through all the trouble to fabricate so much information and for what reason?

Well right now, nothing is certain until we get more information and figure out if a source actually exists. Besides all that, like Mei-chan said, Ohnogi hasn't even been credited for anything.

[BetoJR]

What is it about this article that makes you guys think that Ohnogi wasn't involved with the show? OF COURSE he has been credited and his late joining with the show's team was widely reported, way before episode 18 aired. It was actually one of the reasons why I went back to watch the series again - I had dropped it after episode 6 or 7, thereabout.

Again, what makes you assume he wasn't involved? I didn't get that from the excerpts translated, at all.

[Tak]

I bet $5 that they are making a multi-ending Macross Frontier dating sim. Its clearly a marketing ploy, nothing more.

- Tak

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Tak

I bet $5 that they are making a multi-ending Macross Frontier dating sim. Its clearly a marketing ploy, nothing more.

- Tak

Clearly, that's what it is

[justavisitor]

more realistically, an OVA for multi-ending like Kimi ga Nozomu Eien actually sounds good

Alto X Ranka
Alto X Sheryl
Alto X Micheal (I have a feeling someone in this forum is seriously rooting for this pair ?? is that you Natsuki Hyuga?? )
Alto X Brera etc

[Tak]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

Clearly, that's what it is

Well, if you did not notice already, everyone is saying different things. There is little consistency in the information we have been provided by the production team. At this time, I am going to treat everything they say as half bullshit.

- Tak

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Tak

Well, if you did not notice already, everyone is saying different things. There is little consistency in the information we have been provided by the production team. At this time, I am going to treat everything they say as half bullshit.

- Tak

Couldn't agree with you more.

[BetoJR]

That would probably be the best approach regarding this topic, I guess...

[Yot-chan]

I don't think it's bullshit at all...if I thought it was, I wouldn't have translated it.

Still, I don't think it "proves" much of anything, apart from the fact that there's a dirty version of episode 22 sitting around somewhere, waiting to be released.

That said...

Originally Posted by BetoJR

What is it about this article that makes you guys think that Ohnogi wasn't involved with the show? OF COURSE he has been credited and his late joining with the show's team was widely reported, way before episode 18 aired. It was actually one of the reasons why I went back to watch the series again - I had dropped it after episode 6 or 7, thereabout.

Again, what makes you assume he wasn't involved? I didn't get that from the excerpts translated, at all.

I guess you could make that inference, based on the fact that the interviewer asks Yoshino about Alto's dialogue in episodes 23, 24, and 25 as though Yoshino wrote it, and Yoshino answers in kind.

As for documentation about Ohnogi's involvement in Frontier, can you provide some? I've been going crazy trying to find something, ANYTHING that shows he was part of the show. He's not mentioned anywhere in the ending credits for the show (except episode 10, since he wrote MacZero), nor in the Official Fan Book, nor 2059: Memories, not the Production Info from Macross Chronicle.

I have all the episodes of the Macross F radio show (got 'em from nicosound), and Bobby's VA was only in the episodes BEFORE Frontier went to air.

Bishopcruz talked to Shaloom of Macross Generation, who said that it was from a different Macross radio show, but neither the Macross F website nor Japanese Wikiepdia (which has a rather detailed page on Macross radio shows) has any mention of a different radio show.

Currently, I'm translating Kawamori's episode commentaries from 2059: Memories. I thought they'd be similar to the Famitsu magazine interview comments (since they were done around the same time) or even that the magazine interview was just anexcerpted version of 2059: Memories, but they're completely different, sometimes even contradicting the Famitsu interview.

Needless to say, I'm puzzled. Any assistance would be HIGHLY appreciated.

(Oh, and if anyone wants it, I also typed out the Yoshino interview in Japanese - to facilitate machine translation - and scanned the page from the Official Fan Book...I try to back up my sources)

EDIT: I just saw the post from Mei19 asking for scans, so here you go:

Spoiler for Japanese Text:

すでにいろいろなところで聞かれたり、お話しになっているかと思いますが、まずはこっちの三角関係について 。アルトとランカとシェリルの恋愛に、なぜ、決着がつかなかったんですか？

吉野：決着をつけようかつけまいか、結構ギリギリまで決めてなっかたんです、本当のところ。で、終盤を見据えて いくにつれ、みんなの中で、これははっきり言葉化したわけじゃないんですけど、なんか、どっちが勝って、ど っちとくっついて、という風にはならないんじゃないか、ならなくてもいいのかな、という感じに なってきて。
あの朴念仁のアルトがナチュラルに動くとしたら、女の子よりお空のほうが好きでしょ、という突っ込みがスタ ッフ各方面から入ってきて。じゃあ、無理やり決着つけないで、彼らは彼らなりに行っていただこうか、という ことになったんです。
「お客さん、怒るかな。」
「うん。まあ、いいよ、覚悟の上だ。」
とか言いながら。ただ、その後、みなさんのいろんなご意見が入ってくると、河森さん、わりかしヘコんでたか も。ちょっと、気にしてたみたいです。
ただ、武道館のライブを見ながら、シェリルとランカが同じステージにいるを見て、河森さんと「決着つけなく て良かったね」「そうだね。そうしてたら、このステージ、やっぱり微妙だったもんね」と（笑）

ー　しかしです。確かにある時期までは「お空の好きなアルト君」で良かったんですけど、２２話でシェリルと 一夜を過ごしちゃうし・・・。今回、声優さんに話を聞いても、あの話出てくるんです。みんな喧々囂々（けん けんごうごう）で面白いんですけど。

吉野：（笑）。たしかに、あのあとふたりの間に何があったか、すごく気になる流れですよね。こちらからどうこう と話る気はありませんし、そのあたりは想像に任せしますが・・・。
アフレコは、あの話数の頃はもう原撮やコンテ撮（註：映像が完全に仕上がっていない状態）になってて、ちょ っと煽情的なラフが入ってたりしたんで、声優の皆さんからも、ブースのこっち側にいるスタッフからも「お～ っ」と、溜息が漏れたりしましたが。
いやぁ、本当に何があったんでしょうか（笑）。事実はアルトとシェリルだけが知ってます。

ー　その「煽情的なカット」、BDとかDVDで復活できませんかね！？

吉野：う～ん、どうでしょう。TV版で期待するより、劇場で何か・・・・・・と思って貰った方が良いかもしれま せん。宣伝的にも（笑）。

ー　あのあとも、アルトの怪進撃は続くですよ。２３話で「ランカのためにS・M・Sに入った」と言い、２４ 話で「お前のところに帰ってくる」とシェリルに言い・・・。最後は「お前たちは俺の翼だ」！

吉野：アルトにはあまり自覚がないと思うんですよ。無自覚な分、タチが悪いんだけど（笑）。ただ、僕自身として も、２４話のシェリルとアルトの別れ、出撃前のふたりの会話まで、どう転ぶかわからなかったの が本音です。
でもね、やっぱり、つかなくてよかったんですよ。どちらかを応援してくれたお客さんが、最後は「ランカのと ころに行ったろう」「いや、シェリルが勝った」とか、見たいように見ていただければ、一番ですよ。見てくだ さった人たち、それぞれの結末でもあると思いますから、あえてこっちではオチつけなくてもとい う感じです。

Spoiler for Freakin' huge image:

[Tak]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

more realistically, an OVA for multi-ending like Kimi ga Nozomu Eien actually sounds good

Alto X Ranka
Alto X Sheryl
Alto X Micheal (I have a feeling someone in this forum is seriously rooting for this pair ?? is that you Natsuki Hyuga?? )
Alto X Brera etc

Or they can do what Bandi did for ToraDora

http://b.bngi-channel.jp/toradora/

- Tak (Yes, that is a dating sim)

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

I don't think it's bullshit at all...if I thought it was, I wouldn't have translated it.

That says, I don't think it "proves" much of anything, apart from the fact that there's a dirty version of episode 22 sitting around somewhere, waiting to be released.

That said...

I guess you could make that inference, based on the fact that the interviewer asks Yoshino about Alto's dialogue in episodes 23, 24, and 25 as though Yoshino wrote it, and Yoshino answers in kind.

As for documentation about Ohnogi's involvement in Frontier, can you provide some? I've been going crazy trying to find something, ANYTHING that shows he was part of the show. He's not mentioned anywhere in the ending credits for the show, nor in the Official Fan Book, nor 2059: Memories, not the Production Info from Macross Chronicle.

I have all the episodes of the Macross F radio show (got 'em from nicosound), and Bobby's VA was only in the episodes BEFORE Frontier went to air.

Bishopcruz talked to Shaloom of Macross Generation, who said that it was from a different Macross radio show, but neither the Macross F website nor Japanese Wikiepdia (which has a rather detailed page on Macross radio shows) has any information regarding it.

Currently, I'm translating Kawamori's episode commentaries from 2059: Memories. I thought they'd be similar to the Famitsu magazine interview comments (since they were done around the same time) or even that the magazine interview was just anexcerpted version of 2059: Memories, but they're completely different, sometimes even contradicting the Famitsu interview.

Needless to say, I'm puzzled. Any assistance would be HIGHLY appreciated.

(Oh, and if anyone wants it, I also typed out the Yoshino interview in Japanese - to facilitate machine translation - and scanned the page from the Official Fan Book...I try to back up my sources)

EDIT: I just saw the post from Mei19 asking for scans, so here you go:

Spoiler for Japanese Text:

すでにいろいろなところで聞かれたり、お話しになっているかと思いますが、まずはこっちの三角関係について 。アルトとランカとシェリルの恋愛に、なぜ、決着がつかなかったんですか？

吉野：決着をつけようかつけまいか、結構ギリギリまで決めてなっかたんです、本当のところ。で、終盤を見据えて いくにつれ、みんなの中で、これははっきり言葉化したわけじゃないんですけど、なんか、どっちが勝って、ど っちとくっついて、という風にはならないんじゃないか、ならなくてもいいのかな、という感じに なってきて。
あの朴念仁のアルトがナチュラルに動くとしたら、女の子よりお空のほうが好きでしょ、という突っ込みがスタ ッフ各方面から入ってきて。じゃあ、無理やり決着つけないで、彼らは彼らなりに行っていただこうか、という ことになったんです。
「お客さん、怒るかな。」
「うん。まあ、いいよ、覚悟の上だ。」
とか言いながら。ただ、その後、みなさんのいろんなご意見が入ってくると、河森さん、わりかしヘコんでたか も。ちょっと、気にしてたみたいです。
ただ、武道館のライブを見ながら、シェリルとランカが同じステージにいるを見て、河森さんと「決着つけなく て良かったね」「そうだね。そうしてたら、このステージ、やっぱり微妙だったもんね」と（笑）

ー　しかしです。確かにある時期までは「お空の好きなアルト君」で良かったんですけど、２２話でシェリルと 一夜を過ごしちゃうし・・・。今回、声優さんに話を聞いても、あの話出てくるんです。みんな喧々囂々（けん けんごうごう）で面白いんですけど。

吉野：（笑）。たしかに、あのあとふたりの間に何があったか、すごく気になる流れですよね。こちらからどうこう と話る気はありませんし、そのあたりは想像に任せしますが・・・。
アフレコは、あの話数の頃はもう原撮やコンテ撮（註：映像が完全に仕上がっていない状態）になってて、ちょ っと煽情的なラフが入ってたりしたんで、声優の皆さんからも、ブースのこっち側にいるスタッフからも「お～ っ」と、溜息が漏れたりしましたが。
いやぁ、本当に何があったんでしょうか（笑）。事実はアルトとシェリルだけが知ってます。

ー　その「煽情的なカット」、BDとかDVDで復活できませんかね！？

吉野：う～ん、どうでしょう。TV版で期待するより、劇場で何か・・・・・・と思って貰った方が良いかもしれま せん。宣伝的にも（笑）。

ー　あのあとも、アルトの怪進撃は続くですよ。２３話で「ランカのためにS・M・Sに入った」と言い、２４ 話で「お前のところに帰ってくる」とシェリルに言い・・・。最後は「お前たちは俺の翼だ」！

吉野：アルトにはあまり自覚がないと思うんですよ。無自覚な分、タチが悪いんだけど（笑）。ただ、僕自身として も、２４話のシェリルとアルトの別れ、出撃前のふたりの会話まで、どう転ぶかわからなかったの が本音です。
でもね、やっぱり、つかなくてよかったんですよ。どちらかを応援してくれたお客さんが、最後は「ランカのと ころに行ったろう」「いや、シェリルが勝った」とか、見たいように見ていただければ、一番ですよ。見てくだ さった人たち、それぞれの結末でもあると思いますから、あえてこっちではオチつけなくてもとい う感じです。

Spoiler for Freakin' huge image:

wow good job on that. Well this kind of information I can trust Information provided with scans from the sources. Thanks a lot for spending your time and putting effort on this

[cheesie]

Indeed, well done, Yot-chan!

[Mei19]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

...I try to back up my sources

Spoiler for Freakin' huge image:

You mean business! Thanks a bunch. It's not Kawamori who's into polygamy then. It's Yoshino XD I'd most likely wait for your translation of 2059 memories too. That'd be one helluva read.

If Ohnogi did the last half, it's wrong not to put him in the end credits yo~ Ohnogi should sue the Macross staff hahah

[Yot-chan]

I've started working on the Episode Commentary for Frontier, by Kawamori, printed in the book 2059: Memories (pages 90-93). I don't know how long it will take me to do them all...maybe a few weeks, if I'm lucky. I want to give special thanks to Renato at Macrossworld, who checked my translations, corrected some errors, and gave useful tips. Of course, if any errors still remain, they're mine and mine alone.

#01 - Close Encounter
Script: Hiroyuki Yoshino / Storyboard: Yasuhito Kikuchi, Shoji Kawamori / Production: Takayuki Tanaka / Art Direction: Yuichi Takahashi, Risa Ebata
In regards to the TV series, we're aiming for it to be the culmination of everything from the Macross series up to this point. The director (Yasuhito) Kikuchi and I did the storyboards ourselves, and we were able to put in all the little items we wanted to see. With the two of us doing it, 20 minutes just wasn't long enough! (laughs) We tried many experiments in the first episode. The parts that worked out well we brushed up and developed further in the following story.

#02 - Hard Chase
Script: Hiroyuki Yoshino / Storyboard: Yasuhito Kikuchi, Shoji Kawamori / Production: Kiyoshi Matsuda / Art Direction: Masahiro Sekiguchi, Takashi Ikari
We tried Ranka singing, and Sheryl stepping in to add her her own voice, and I thought "That's it!" Apparently (Yoko) Kanno had the same response during the recording. I did have a feeling it would go all right, but I actually shiver when I hear them sing together. The was when Kanno-san began rapidly sending me duet songs. (laughs).

#03 - On Your Marks
Script: Hiroyuki Yoshino / Storyboard and Production: Takao Abo / Art Direction: Futoshi Fujikawa
Well, someone always gets locked in at some point in Macross (laughs). While we'd had people be trapped before, we'd never done it with three people. The "Tuna Bun" design was a labor of love for our scriptwriter (Hiroyuki) Yoshino and the artist (laughs). The "chest portion" of the episode was described by Yoshino, and the artist decided to imagine what it would look like. Griffith Park is a reference to the landscape of the Griffith Park Observatory in L.A.

#04 - Miss Macross
Script: Hiroyuki Yoshino / Storyboard: Kazuki Akane / Production: Takahiro Majima / Art Direction: Ryouma Ebata
The main points here are really Ranka singing "My Boyfriend is a Pilot" and Klan Klang. Because Klan's destructive power had been assumed from the beginning, it was decided not to put her in the first three episodes. For the "My Boyfriend is~" section, the young animators took charge. Thanks to these artists, the characters move swiftly, even in something like a singing scene, which is usually rather restrained (laughs).

#05 - Star Date
Script:Hiroyuki Yoshino / Storyboard: Yasuhito Kikuchi / Production: Takayuki Fukuda / Art Diection: Hiroki Marufuji
The scouting trip to San Francisco and Las Vegas, accompanied by Director Kikuchi, provided a terribly charming background for Sheryl. I can completely understand why people would fall all over themselves for her (laughs). In order to give Ranka, having just failed in the Miss Macross Frontier Contest, her debut into the entertainment world, we made the street concert scene. We were thinkng about what would push her to her chance to sing; of course it would be Alto's paper airplane...

More coming soon. And again, I'll post up the scans and the typed-out version if anyone asks for them.

And...um...any documentation of Ohnogi's involvement yet? If he really worked on the show, SOMEone must have SOMEthing...right?

[justavisitor]

Thanks Yot-chan for Episode Commentary!!

take your time, no need to be hurry

[BetoJR]

Thanks for the commentary translations, Yot-chan. Keep 'em coming!

But...

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

And...um...any documentation of Ohnogi's involvement yet? If he really worked on the show, SOMEone must have SOMEthing...right?[/I]

Oh, c´mon, doesn't anyone have a hard copy of that Kawamori interview that came out in Famitsu? Or are we really gonna have to assume it was all just a hoax, like some people seem to be implying?

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Thanks for the commentary translations, Yot-chan. Keep 'em coming!

But...

Oh, c´mon, doesn't anyone have a hard copy of that Kawamori interview that came out in Famitsu? Or are we really gonna have to assume it was all just a hoax, like some people seem to be implying?

These are the only two pictures I've seen of the Famitsu interview:


In this one, some of the text is cut off, which makes it harder to read. But he *seems* to be talking about the inspirations for Frontier (including, I believe, Macross's popularity in China and America leading to a certain kind of "culture shock" for Kawamori himself...don't quote me on that, though). It does not talk about Sheryl (シェリル）nor does it mention Ohnogi (大野木寛）.


This one is MUCH too small for me to read, except for the title headings. The one on the right-hand says says "About Macross Frontier." The one on the left-hand side says "About Macross Ace Frontier."

Still, even though it's much too small, you can see that it's in standard interview format, not the "Episode Commentary" format that the "translated" Famitsu interview showed.

I really don't want to call it a hoax, nor do to I want to call anyone a liar.

Hasn't anyone investigated this? The information has been floating around for a while, someone MUST have done a little research on it, right? Has anyone found ANYTHING that connects Ohnogi to Frontier (apart, of course, from episode 10, which is widely documented)...?

[BetoJR]

I am starting to be a wee bit curious about this, as well...

[Yot-chan]

Sudden update:
Looking for closely at the Famitsu pics I posted, it does indeed seem that the first pic includes this bit translated for Macross Generation Forums:

While Macross plus is a history where conflict arises in profound mental and physical trauma, adding emotional problems, in Frontier I wanted to express the type of conflict that could occur if it is not possible to understand suitably.

But then it veers off to talk about the love triangle.

Additionally, while checking Frontier's Japanese Wikiepdia page, I noticed a "Cell Phone Radio Show" called "URA Deculture!" with the VAs for Ozma and Bobby as hosts. I checked the website, and saw Bobby's VA sitting with Aya Endo.

I was thinking, "How the hell could I have missed this before? Is THIS the show where Bobby interviewed Ohnogi?" But then I noticed that the show is new, and just started its broadcast two weeks ago.

So, yeah, that's not it.

This is driving me crazy.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

I do not, DO NOT know how in the heck Liner Notes become Macross Radio from any kind of source. True, I might not have the DVD, but I really doubt Shaloom Translation (which is Translated by magnuskn to English) is actually excerpted from Radio Shows of Macross F. I mean:

Originally Posted by Info for Macross Frontier DVD/Blu-Ray Vol 2

発売日：2008年9月26日（発売中）
価格：7,350円（税込）
仕様：カラー／72分／リニアPCM（ステレオ）／AVC／BD25G／16：9（1080p High Definition）

DVD『マクロスF（フロンティア）』 （2）
発売日：2008年9月26日
価格：6,300円（税込）
仕様：カラー／72分／ドルビーデジタル（ステレオ）／片面2層／16：9（スクイーズ）／ビ スタサイズ

内容：3話収録
#02「ハード・チェイス」
#03「オン・ユア・マークス」
#04「ミス・マクロス」

【特典】 (Tokuten)

特典1：初回特典
・マクロスＦ 缶バッジセット

特典2：毎回封入特典
・ライナーノート（16P）

(Quick Translation: Special/Privilege (Tokuten) 2: Usual Enclosed Privilege
・LINER NOTE (16P)

T/N: This means that LINER NOTES ARE FROM DVD/BLU-RAY BOX SET, and I doubt it is from MACROSS RADIO SHOWS. And yes, I know this kind of thing because even though I did not buy any of Macross DVDs/Blu-Ray, I did buy a lot of pre-ordered galge/Otome game/BL Game with my uncle help, and sure enough, I already know what Tokuten means for every single kind of things :/ It will not be surprising if the Liner notes are made from some radio talk, but I really have zero belief in that... Apart from the interviews. But it might also be possible that the interview are written, not talked.)

特典3：音声特典
＃04 オーディオコメンタリー
（小西克幸×中島 愛×吉野弘幸）
特典4 他、仕様：
・ジャケットはキャラクターデザイン江端里沙の描き下ろし

How in any way it got tracked as RADIO SHOW is out of my head and imagination. I might have to check this with my friend later. :/ And yes, this 2nd Tokuten or the liner notes are 16 pages booklet and it is present in every Blu-Ray/DVD set (or maybe in Blu-Ray only... Bleh, my head forgot about that. Anyways.), and it talks about the special info for every episode on respective DVD/Blu-Ray set. Literally, Shaloom also said that his translations are "liner notes", so take your choice.

As for the commentaries, cheesie would you mind directing us the source of the commentaries stray and you translated from Famitsu? As in, which issue it is? This is kind of need some clearing up for some people *sigh*