To Aru Kagaku no Railgun archived manga discussion

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

Now that you mentioned it, I noticed it too.
Misaki brainwashed her into believing she is her friend and it "worked", she even asked "Mi-chan" to use her maybe-water-related power.
But in the end it was shown, that she knew all the time she was not her friend Mi-chan and asker for her real name.
I think this was the real reason Misaki suffered that shock, that Dolly knew she mind-controlled her, but still was happy for Misaki to be her friend and stay with her.

This makes a completly different impact on the whole chapter..

I can't believe I didn't notice that. Wow that makes this whole chapter even better.

[whitecloud]

so misaki only have 2 "real" friends, dolly (dead,possibly in the cloud) and touma (saviour)? and 1 rival, misaka

[dniv]

New Testament 6 Spoiler related to Exterior/Misaki:

Spoiler:

Does anyone else think that Exterior might be the Will of the Misaka Network? From chapter 59, I think that Exterior was that girl inside that liquid pod that listened to what Shokuhou told her. I'm pretty sure Exterior might be the final dolly. If this is true could Exterior be the will of the Misaka Network? It's apparent Misaka wants to protect her.

Guys. I just noticed something that bothers me. When Kouzaku was going to fight Xochitl in chapter 59, she said I can't afford to screw up here.

Kouzaku's first name is Mitori: Mi-chan? In the flashback with Mi-chan seeing how the real Dolly looked, we see Mi-chan has black hair and a similar hair style! Does this mean Mitori is Mi-chan and she's trying to make things right somehow or is being manipulated by Gensei?

She probably told Gensei the truth about the Exterior project!!!! This would explain how he somehow found out about Exterior. This is because we know that Misaki had never brainwashed Mi-chan.

Things are starting to make more sense to me.

This is slightly related: in chapter 44.5 page 14 was that Mitori with Misaki, I actually can't tell even though it probably isn't her, I guess...

Also, Kouzaku is a third year Kiriagoka student who probably gave Baba the information about the students of Tokiwadai because she is "his friend" he mentions in the school garden.

[zaeraal]

^Hmm, Mitori being the Mi-chan?

Well..
She did knew about the Exterior project and Mi-chan was the only person Misaki didn't brainwashed.
She was in prison for attempted terrorist attack 14 months ago and the time matches +- the period after she left Dolly.
She must have had reasons for it, maybe she figured out truth about Dolly and tried to save her.
And it also explains why Mi-chan suddenly "stopped coming" without the researchers even trying to get her back.

She was even willing to risk death by betraying her team and the "I cannot afford to screw up here" only confirms her resolution.
The vase with "water" that Mi-chan used with her powers is quite opaque and sealing "water" like that is odd, it could be some other liquid.
What she said about Mikoto, "there seems to be some hope left", would also make now sense, if she knew Dolly was Mikoto's clone.


Well, it looks like they might be the same person after all.
But then we have quite a funny situation - Mitori and Misaki having the same goal, yet trying to kill each other

[dniv]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

^Hmm, Mitori being the Mi-chan?

Well..
She did knew about the Exterior project and Mi-chan was the only person Misaki didn't brainwashed.
She was in prison for attempted terrorist attack 14 months ago and the time matches +- the period after she left Dolly.
She must have had reasons for it, maybe she figured out truth about Dolly and tried to save her.
And it also explains why Mi-chan suddenly "stopped coming" without the researchers even trying to get her back.

She was even willing to risk death by betraying her team and the "I cannot afford to screw up here" only confirms her resolution.
The vase with "water" that Mi-chan used with her powers is quite opaque and sealing "water" like that is odd, it could be some other liquid.
What she said about Mikoto, "there seems to be some hope left", would also make now sense, if she knew Dolly was Mikoto's clone.


Well, it looks like they might be the same person after all.
But then we have quite a funny situation - Mitori and Misaki having the same goal, yet trying to kill each other

Lol, if we're right. You can say that again

Quick question: what was the vase with "water" that Mi-chan used with her powers. What chapter/page was that? I just can't find it... I'm obviously blind lol.

[StaticLord]

I think he meant this scene:
[mod edit: cannot link to this site]

Top panel. Thats the opaque "vase".

Dolly wanted Mi-chan(Misaki) to use her powers on it.

If Mitori really is Mi-chan then the liquid inside the vase is some metal, for example mercury\quicksilver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=jR2SFNn-24k#!

But it seems too transparent for mercury.

[zaeraal]

^Yes it is too transparent for metal, but a bit more opaque than water.
It's hard to tell, since Fuyukawa draws water with random translucence (chapter 51)

Don't forget that in RL there are already experiments with transparent metals and some transparent aluminium really exists. (and this is AC after all)
(or her power might have changed/matured over time)

[dniv]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

^Yes it is too transparent for metal, but a bit more opaque than water.
It's hard to tell, since Fuyukawa draws water with random translucence (chapter 51)

Don't forget that in RL there are already experiments with transparent metals and some transparent aluminium really exists. (and this is AC after all)
(or her power might have changed/matured over time)

OH!!! I see what you mean. Thanks both of you for pointing this out again. Zaeraal, this is what you were mentioning the first time. I don't know why I didn't realize that. That was a great observation you made!

Yep Mitori's powers seem to involve liquid metal. I'm curious as to why Dolly would carry something like that around with her? Maybe it's because she and Kouzaku were close friends, and it's in remembrance of her? Maybe she can affect the phase of a substance or its chemical bond stability and make it undergo phase changes within limits. This could also apply to just metal as well. We really haven't seen that much of her powers in action. I can't wait for the 27th of June! Lol.

[Pyromania]

That would be a fairly cool development, and a nice amount of foreshadowing by the author.

If this is true that would indeed explain how Gensei learned of Exterior, assuming he wasn't just the originator of it who didn't get brainwashed.

[StaticLord]

Originally Posted by dniv

I'm curious as to why Dolly would carry something like that around with her?.

Out of sentiment I guess. And I'm sure a semi-transparent liquid metal is cool to observe when you're stuck in a room full of toys for little kids.

[HonGFirE]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

Now that you mentioned it, I noticed it too.
Misaki brainwashed her into believing she is her friend and it "worked", she even asked "Mi-chan" to use her maybe-water-related power.
But in the end it was shown, that she knew all the time she was not her friend Mi-chan and asker for her real name.
I think this was the real reason Misaki suffered that shock, that Dolly knew she mind-controlled her, but still was happy for Misaki to be her friend and stay with her.

This makes a completly different impact on the whole chapter..

Damn, you make me almost cry. Again.
Lv5's Slice of life in academy city is full of tragedy

[zaeraal]

^Dolly was missing Mi-chan, so it was normal for her to keep the only thing that remainded her of Mi-chan the most.
When you miss someone, you also hold onto his/her photo or some object filled with important memories of that person.



PS: Now that the story is mostly clear, I am looking forward to the confrontation Mitori / Misaki and the last fight.

By rules of Kamachi, there will always be a boss fight at the end, but the opponents are not evenly matched this time.

Spoiler for LN:

We know that Touma will not be deeply involved nor Misaki finds out about magic.
We also know that Exterior will be destroyed and Mitori might die (or disappears for good).

We can suppose that Gensei is the really bad one, regardless of Mitori's wishes.
Also Gensei may get a hold of Exterior and use it for his own plan.
Misaki will be in disadvantage, because there will be no-one in her building to mind-control.

This leaves 3 sides of combatants:

Originally Posted by Bad Team

Gensei - Someone with Exterior - Hound Dogs
Mitori

Originally Posted by Good team

Mikoto - Misaki
Xochitl - Saten - Touma

Originally Posted by random interference

Professor - Robots
Gunha

What is your guess for the boss fight?

[dniv]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

^Dolly was missing Mi-chan, so it was normal for her to keep the only thing that remainded her of Mi-chan the most.
When you miss someone, you also hold onto his/her photo or some object filled with important memories of that person.



PS: Now that the story is mostly clear, I am looking forward to the confrontation Mitori / Misaki and the last fight.

By rules of Kamachi, there will always be a boss fight at the end, but the opponents are not evenly matched this time.

Spoiler for LN:

We know that Touma will not be deeply involved nor Misaki finds out about magic.
We also know that Exterior will be destroyed and Mitori might die (or disappears for good).

We can suppose that Gensei is the really bad one, regardless of Mitori's wishes.
Also Gensei may get a hold of Exterior and use it for his own plan.
Misaki will be in disadvantage, because there will be no-one in her building to mind-control.

This leaves 3 sides of combatants:



What is your guess for the boss fight?

Spoiler for Index Light Novel NT 7:

I think Touma might at least give them their back their memories actually. I realized something while looking at NT 7:
If Touma touches someone under Shokuhou's mind control and this applies to someone who has already had their memories tampered with probably, if he touches them anywhere on their body, they will be free from her control. When Shokuhou was in the other girl's body and she was carrying him with flowers, Touma made sure not to touch her with his right hand no matter what.

This means Touma might just be involved in order to restore Saten's memories and possibly just because he's there the other two.

The again: he might be there to prevent Saten from learning the truth about the sisters. He might also be there to make Xochitl get there late...

Things really are starting to make sense like you said Zaeraal.

However, who doesn't love random interference in the form of GUNHA. We need more Gunha love in the railgun manga. I also believe there is one other form of random interference possible: the #6 (who hasn't been revealed yet). This is unlikely... but... NT 7 spoiler
Shokuhou knows him/her as we see in Chapter 4 section 5 when she sees the fake #6 and she remarks that there is a connection between them.

Furthermore, about what's going to happen eventually to Exterior. I might disagree with you, depending on the circumstances.

I think Exterior will:
Not be destroyed. There is a good chance Exterior becomes what we know as the Will of the Misaka network if it is that closely intertwined with it. I think Shokuhou loses the ability to tamper with it though and Mitori makes up with the final dolly, Exterior, who has the memories of the original Dolly and of Misaki because she told her, her name.

I'm not sure about this, but this seems a more railgunnish sort of ending to me.

[relentlessflame]

I want to remind everyone that, if you're going to referencing any outside source, you must actually label the *spoiler tag* with *the thing the person needs to have read/seen to know if it's safe to open the tag*. So if you're referencing the latest novel, please place the volume name/number in the spoiler tag description.

Also, if you're going to be speculating about future content based on the novel, please place the entire post behind spoiler tags, not just the specific parts that you think are spoilers. Because really, the entire speculation is based on the spoilers, even if you don't give the specifics/details away.

Last but not least, I created a thread for Railgun Manga speculation for Index Novel Readers. Since there are some people who are reading the Railgun manga, but have not yet read the Index Novels, it's better to place this conversation in its own thread separate from the rest for people who don't want to be spoiled on Index happenings.

Thanks for your understanding...

[dniv]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I want to remind everyone that, if you're going to referencing any outside source, you must actually label the *spoiler tag* with *the thing the person needs to have read/seen to know if it's safe to open the tag*. So if you're referencing the latest novel, please place the volume name/number in the spoiler tag description.

Also, if you're going to be speculating about future content based on the novel, please place the entire post behind spoiler tags, not just the specific parts that you think are spoilers. Because really, the entire speculation is based on the spoilers, even if you don't give the specifics/details away.

Last but not least, I created a thread for Railgun Manga speculation for Index Novel Readers. Since there are some people who are reading the Railgun manga, but have not yet read the Index Novels, it's better to place this conversation in its own thread separate from the rest for people who don't want to be spoiled on Index happenings.

Thanks for your understanding...

Thanks for doing this. I will repost what I said intially. I appreciate this. Sorry about that...

[zaeraal]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I want to remind everyone that, if you're going to referencing any outside source, you must actually label the *spoiler tag* with *the thing the person needs to have read/seen to know if it's safe to open the tag*. So if you're referencing the latest novel, please place the volume name/number in the spoiler tag description.

Also, if you're going to be speculating about future content based on the novel, please place the entire post behind spoiler tags, not just the specific parts that you think are spoilers. Because really, the entire speculation is based on the spoilers, even if you don't give the specifics/details away.

Last but not least, I created a thread for Railgun Manga speculation for Index Novel Readers. Since there are some people who are reading the Railgun manga, but have not yet read the Index Novels, it's better to place this conversation in its own thread separate from the rest for people who don't want to be spoiled on Index happenings.

Thanks for your understanding...

I do not see the point in making that thread.
This forum is not that often visited and there are only very few connections between Railgun and Index that can fit there.

Originally Posted by dniv

Furthermore, about what's going to happen eventually to Exterior. I might disagree with you, depending on the circumstances.

I think Exterior will:
Not be destroyed. There is a good chance Exterior becomes what we know as the Will of the Misaka network if it is that closely intertwined with it. I think Shokuhou loses the ability to tamper with it though and Mitori makes up with the final dolly, Exterior, who has the memories of the original Dolly and of Misaki because she told her, her name.

I'm not sure about this, but this seems a more railgunnish sort of ending to me.

Yes this is Railgun and there will most likely be some happy ending.

I said that exterior will be destroyed, because I see it more like the connection between the user and the "power up", than some living being.
In that case it would make sense for it to be destroyed.

If it hovewer, is a "living being" (and not just a monster like AIM Burst), for example Dolly, then that being will be most likely saved.

Interesting Note:
I nearly forgot, but in the Ensemble PSP game, there was mentioned a person (Shion) who used computer to boost his powers through auditory signals (from level 0 to 5)
They also mention there that Sister Network can be accesed through a biopod using a human brain.

Considering all of that, Dolly herself can be still alive, but kept as the acces point (human brain) to Sister Network..

PS: If the Exterior works similarly to the computer Shion used, it could theoretically boosts Saten powers from Level 0 to 5 if she used it
Maybe it would be even more hilarious if Mikoto used it and got a boost in power like Misaki did.. I think Touma would piss his pants.

[Miraluka]

He would casually negate them anyway.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

I do not see the point in making that thread.
This forum is not that often visited and there are only very few connections between Railgun and Index that can fit there.



Yes this is Railgun and there will most likely be some happy ending.

I said that exterior will be destroyed, because I see it more like the connection between the user and the "power up", than some living being.
In that case it would make sense for it to be destroyed.

If it hovewer, is a "living being" (and not just a monster like AIM Burst), for example Dolly, then that being will be most likely saved.

Interesting Note:
I nearly forgot, but in the Ensemble PSP game, there was mentioned a person (Shion) who used computer to boost his powers through auditory signals (from level 0 to 5)
They also mention there that Sister Network can be accesed through a biopod using a human brain.

Considering all of that, Dolly herself can be still alive, but kept as the acces point (human brain) to Sister Network..

PS: If the Exterior works similarly to the computer Shion used, it could theoretically boosts Saten powers from Level 0 to 5 if she used it
Maybe it would be even more hilarious if Mikoto used it and got a boost in power like Misaki did.. I think Touma would piss his pants.

Lol. I totally agree. Think about what would happen if Uiharu used it. Control of all heat= complete control of Entropy= Broken. I mean if Uiharu could control Entropy, she could basically control all quantum-mechanical probabilities in existence and would be the #1 level 5, probably lol. No, she would be the #0 level 5: way above everything else.

Wait a minute: I see there is a point to have a discussion for Light Novel readers. I'm posting something there about Rikou I would like you to answer...

What I'm wondering about is how Gensei plans to use it for his devices. You are probably right about the fact that Exterior is an access point to the Misaka network because Misaki said herself that Gensei knew about another hidden aspect of the Misaka network.

I wonder if it involves more things relating to AIM thought beings. I feel like if things get too out of hand at this point, we will see Aleister Crowley intervene. And I will add to this comment at the other thread...

Furthermore, Dolly probably is still alive. My point is that if it is really possible for Exterior to power up all of the level 5's this much, why isn't it being considered/used by others. OH I just answered my own question and realized HOW STUPID OF A STATEMENT I JUST MADE!!! LOLZ I get what Gensei is after, probably. He is a Kihara after-all.

Hopefully we see a Dolly/Mitori cut-scene and credits fade out as they both go to the ocean happily ever after where Mitori doesn't need to manipulate liquid metal and they can enjoy liquid water. lol.

Also: isn't Mitori the first character introduced in AC's darkness who is only in Railgun? This is why I further think she is Mi-chan. It would actually make a lot of sense when you consider everything revealed about her, Misaki, and dolly.

Also, I don't think Mitori got sent to Juvenile detention or whatever immediately at that point. I think that she tried to later rescue Exterior and then got into trouble.

It's been at least two/three years since the incident. Everyone has grown/gotten taller/changed in appearance/ Misaki is a senior (third year) in Tokiwadai or at least a second year right ? This incident with Dolly, Misaka happened before she even entered Tokiwadai.

By the way, am I the only who realizes what Kamachi did with the Sisters network?

Spoiler for From Index II still relevant though:

It gives accelerator half of his full power. He killed over half of the clones. Because he killed half of the clones, he has half of his previous power when he uses the Choker. Now that's a low-blow from Kamachi.

Speculation time:

My guess is that Mitori tried to rescue Dolly later after feeling badly about what she did, but she was framed because no one there, in the facility she tried to infiltrate, knew anything about Exterior or Dolly even under torture. Since Exterior wasn't there, there was no testimony in her support and she was screwed over. So she doesn't trust other people because someone screwed her over.

This made Mitori angry because she was trying to help her friend. Now she can't find her friend. Gensei later finds out about the incident, becomes curious, promises to set her free if she tells him about Exterior. Mitori does this and plans to use her freedom eventually to find Exterior/Dolly and tries to get MEMBER to help her because she can't fail here like she did the last time.

I actually really do see the relevance of the other thread. There are a lot of specific things in the Light Novels that will be/ can be greatly affected by the events of what is happening presently in Railgun. Also, there's a lot of stuff in Railgun affected by the light novels.

This is a good separate thread to have because I think there's a fair amount of stuff that would spoil ideas for just railgun manga readers that make a lot more sense in the Light Novels. Like when the level 5's appeared earlier. You can't fully appreciate that or have a discussion about it unless you've read the LN. Anything concerning Liberal Arts City arc which definitely has an impact on this arc can't be mentioned either yet... and specifics of Sogita vs. Misaka can't either... The other Railgun LN's can't be mentioned either which is slightly problematic.

I think it's good having a place to freely discuss all of those things: because there are a lot of those things. Those things could become important if Xochitl became a recurring character, right?

BTW @ Wilfriback

Maybe, maybe not. If Mikoto used an attack like she used again Accelerator in the anime, surrounding him with vibrating magnetic sand, he wouldn't be able to block all of it and he would die. I feel like Mikoto would be the type of person to abuse her new powers if she had them: which is precisely why I think he would be scared. He would still beat her, but not UIHARU

She'd be powerful AND super smart.

I just read the PSP game translation you gave. I am now sure that Exterior accesses the Misaka net and I hope Saten finds out about her Sisters.

Aren't Saten and Kongo the only ones that know she has at least one sister? That means they know more than Shirai, Uiharu, and her parents.. (ouch).

Also, I think Gensei might use Exterior on the infected Radio Noise Clone that is stuck inside the same building as Exterior (the DNA computer that generates ESPER powers).

If Gensei does this and has Kouzaku switch out Full Tuning/ final Dolly/ Exterior with Misaka #10032, Kouzaku will be happy to finally get Exterior back, and Gensei will be able to use this hidden aspect of the Misaka net with the clone that has the virus infected into her. This could give him absolute control over the entire Sisters Network! This would make him able to use its hidden aspects and do some pretty bad things I am sure because he is a Kihara. Hmmmm....

[Xellos-_^]

if Dolly is clone who never went to school, How did she meet "Mi-chan?"

[Rising Dragon]

Probably the same way she met Misaki, i.e. they brought "Mi-chan" to Dolly.