Learning Japanese

[mishka]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Mishka: I recommend you take a look and see if your community college offers non-credit "conversational japanese" courses and "reading japanese" courses. Those will jumpstart you a lot faster than JP 101, 102, 201, 202.

I agree with Risaa: I find japanese much easier to speak than, say, German or Russian. On the other hand, the counter words are pure evil.

After you have those under your belt, then go get credit courses if you like (you may decide to major in linguistics or asian studies by then).

I already have a major, Biological Science. If i take Japanese, it'd just be for fun and personal interest. The community college idea sounds good actually...I go to a UC and we're on quarter system, and it'd be kindda hectic to through Japanese in with all my other courses. Semester system is much easier to handle when it comes to taking a foreign language...I'd probably take it over the summer.

[Risaa]

Yeah... the counters are evil. It's the same in Korean, too... never learned those though. I only know about 5 different counter words in Japanese... Rinko-san sent me a "song" they use to help Japanese tots remember.

Spoiler for Song on Counters!:

1pon demo ninjin(carrot)
2soku demo sandal(sandals)
3sou demo yotto(yacht)
4tubu demo gomashio(sesami salt)
5dai demo roketto (rocket)
6wa demo shichimencho (Turkey)
7shiki demo hachi(Bee)
8tou demo kujira(Whoale)
9hai demo juice
10ko demo ichigo(strawberry)

XD

UC... *__* (Jeez, if I hadn't been so lazy about writing a silly essay, I would've been able to attend a UC school too.) But anyways... if it's set up like State, 101 would be 5 units ne. If you take a course at a community college, or find time to study Japanese outside of school, I recommend that you take the 101 class afterwards. 5 units of A will raise your GPA to the moon.

(Not familiar with the quartar system though... many of my collegy friends are on it and it drives me nuts trying to figure out their schedules. )

[Mueti]

So far I've been avoiding the counters on purpose. And I don't plan on changing that anytime soon.^^ I do write it on my kanji-cards, if that kanji is also some counter...but I don't really memorize it, I wouldn't know more than about 2 right now (apart from 日,月 and 年 that is).

[raikage]

Originally Posted by mishka

Would I learn Japanese if I took a college course on the subject? I watch anime and I'm interested in learning a new language...I don't need a foreign language course, but I thought I should take the class for fun/learning...do you think it'd be waste of time, or would I actually learn?

I would sure hope that if you took a Japanese course, you'd come out of it knowing some Japanese.

But it depends on what you consider "knowing Japanese" -- after a standard first-semester class, you'll know how to read hiragana, katakana, some kanji, and have a fairly small vocabulary. If your aim is in it to be able to watch raw Japanese anime -- well, it took me four semesters before I felt somewhat comfortable, and even then I was still only really catching maybe a little over half of what was being said at that pace.

If you're in it to someday visit Japan, then I'd say 1-2 semesters is adequate -- you won't be able to talk about economics or the geopolitical structure of Japan, but you will be able to get around and order food and ask for directions.

[Abbott]

I did a year of Japanese in the UK, and the speaking element of it was pretty useless. Nobody speaks in the formal language that you get taught in the classes (though US classes could be different, I'm just speaking from my experience), and most people speak with some sort of dialect.

I live in Ibaraki, which is well known for it's accent and dialect. I've basically had to start again. But for watching things like anime or playing Japanese games, Japanese language courses are useful enough. Just don't expect to be able to hold very good conversation with real Japanese people, especially once you get out of Tokyo.

[Vexx]

Heck.. even Japanese people have that problem. My teacher's background is a mix of Yokohama and Tokyo... when she goes too far north or south she has no idea what they're saying half the time. Even the Kansai-ben throws her off unless she's listening carefully.

Its not only an accent difference but word and case differences.
A fair parallel might be drawn between someone in upper crust British society (business Japanese) and Cockney with all its slang rhyme puns (kansai or others).

Heckfire my wife (who was raised in Texas) sometimes has to translate Northwestern Pacific-ese to the poor folks in her company's call center down in Mississippi because they can't understand the other people she works with.

[Abbott]

The most confusing thing about Ibaraki-ben is the fact that they always speak in either past tense, or cut words in half and add random suffixes. It gets very confusing when people are asking you if you want to go somewhere, but it sounds like they're asking you if you've been somewhere.

[AnimeIsAwesome]

o i would love to learn how to speak Japanese, so by watchin any animes i can kno wat they are sayin and would stop askin for any subs. i think that it would be amazing to kno Japanese, so as of now and if anyone wants to put any websites i or we could visit to learn Japanese would be great.

[krysinello]

It would probably be best to take a course on it. I know a bit of Japanese but my vocab sucks. I could hold a very annoying conversation if I had a dictionary for words. What you need to learn first though is the language structure and the particles, after that vocab.

I don't know how to right anything in japanese but I want to increase my vocab and learn to read Kanji.

[WanderingKnight]

What you need to learn first though is the language structure and the particles, after that vocab.

Actually, the first thing you need when seriously learning any language should be that--syntax first, vocabulary later. Words are useless if you don't know how to use them .

[deathreape98]

how do males say i? i know for females it watashi but i forget for males


EDIT: animeisawesome, use http://japan-studies.com its a good website, i use it.

[Mueti]

Originally Posted by deathreape98

how do males say i? i know for females it watashi but i forget for males

Watashi doesn't imply any sex, it can be used by both males and females. The most common ways to refer to oneself that convey that you're male are Boku and Ore, the latter being very casual.


@animesisawesome: Some decent sites, I believe most of them have already been posted in this thread:
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/index.html#contents
http://japanese.about.com/library/blbegin.htm
http://jisho.org/
http://www.saiga-jp.com/cgi-bin/dic....74329791_53094
http://www.isc.u-toyama.ac.jp/cgi-bi...ode=list_tests

If you really want to learn it, take a course though, since you'll be forced to speak there.

[WanderingKnight]

The most common ways to refer to oneself that convey that you're male are Boku and Ore, the latter being very casual.

It should be taken into consideration that "ore" is not only casual but also kind of rough and ill-mannered. I always treat it as the "macho I" .

[Abbott]

Boku tends to only be said by children. Atashi is feminine, but not used much. In reality, most Japanese omit a self marker when talking about themselves. They just assume the person they're talking to knows they're talking about themself. I got many odd looks when I kept on saying watashi or boku in front of sentences, they're just extra syllables that have no real point.

[Vexx]

And of course, if you're being *ultra* formal --- use "watakushi"
But mostly that's 'business formal' and 'social very formal' usage.

I'll still use self-reference as a crutch (can't think, use "watashi wa" to fill space) ... but more often it is omitted as Abbott says unless you're using it as "my" -- 'watashi no yakuta'
Warning: do not use 'boku' or 'ore' when speaking to strangers or acquaintenances. In fact, wait until your new friends take the lead in casual/familiar speech ... unless, of course, you're going for the "Tina Foster Crazy American" effect.

As my friends often say, its not amazing that the crazy white person can speak Japanese well.... its that he can speak it AT ALL.

[FatPianoBoy]

Actually, 'boku' is a funny animal. I've used 'boku' when introducing myself to complete strangers while in the presence of people who would freely tsukkomi me if I did something worth it and I get nothing. It falls somewhere between 'watashi' and 'ore,' but leans more toward the polite side. I think in a casual situation it would sound childish, but in formal or first-meeting situations, and when speaking to those higher up than yourself, it seems to morph into something else.

[WanderingKnight]

Boku is by no means informal. At least that's how I've seen it all along. I've watched a couple of street interviews to Tokyo males and some used boku while using a perfectly polite form of speech.

[Vexx]

Maybe "formal/informal" isn't a fine enough discriminator. But I have seen that guys who normally use "boku" in office chat or street talk cut over to "watashi" or "watakushi" when the boss's boss is visiting from Japan.
As with anything else, situations are always a bit fluid.
Using an occasional "boku" in keigo or -masu style ... I don't think they'd set you on fire for it

[SSJiffy]

Gomen nasai and Oyasumi nasai -- what does the nasai in these two examples mean? Also, the class just went over the ~nasai command form and to my understanding its used with people deemed subordinates; an example: Mainichi benkyou wo shinasai.

Someone clarify please. :]

[Nagato]

I think basically, you got the idea right. Nasai is the imperative form of nasaru. It means "do" or just like other imperative words like seyo, shiro, etc, but rather softer. It's used not only by senior to his subordinates, but also among people with same rank.

Some words have weak imperative sense, like:
oyasuminasai
okaerinasai
gomennasai