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Cloudedmind · 2013-05-01, 11:15

I know the conversations kind of steered away from this but earlier people were commenting on whether it would be cost effective to rescue Ledo. But no one seemed to mention that Ledo isn't there by himself. It may be extremely cost effective for them to retrieve Chamber as we have no idea the time or resources it takes to create something like it. The Alliance may want to retrieve it even if they assume Ledo himself may be dead, and as such Ledo gets rescued by default.

TimeSkip · 2013-05-01, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

It may be extremely cost effective for them to retrieve Chamber as we have no idea the time or resources it takes to create something like it. The Alliance may want to retrieve it even if they assume Ledo himself may be dead, and as such Ledo gets rescued by default.

After they've received the distress signals, wouldn't it be more cost effective to just send a command to make Chamber go on autopilot and return by himself?

Anh_Minh · 2013-05-01, 17:20

We just don't know enough about their FTL travel to say what would be possible, let alone cost-effective. Heck, we don't even know if Chamber can escape the gravity well.

Still, rescuing Ledo and Chamber is completely insignificant compared to the fact they've discovered an habitable planet.

ReddyRedWolf · 2013-05-01, 17:31

We don't even know if they can FTL without a fleet. The wormhole maneuver was very precise and organized. Even the escape.

Hamster · 2013-05-02, 03:33

Just one more thought. If the alliance ever discover Earth and decide to colonize, with the vast difference in technology, I don't think they have to do anything against the locals. They'll just land and go about their business while the natives watch on helplessly.

Anh_Minh · 2013-05-02, 03:47

The Alliance will probably want to integrate the local human resources. We don't know how fast or how forcefully, though.

Jan-Poo · 2013-05-02, 07:30

There are few hints that make me think the Alliance would want to integrate all humans in itself.

The first is that when Ledo recognizes that the Gargantian aren't from the alliance he assumes that they are a "wandering tribe". The term "wandering tribe" seems to imply that those that aren't part of the alliance are considered stragglers. Ledo doesn't seem to recognize that there can be sovereign nations outside the alliance.

The second hint is when Chamber tentatively tries to communicate with the Gargantians the first time. He said: "you are all fellow humans" "Join alliance". It seems that for Chamber it is only logical for all humans to ally in order to fight against the common enemy.
Ridget didn't react well to that...

Triple_R · 2013-05-02, 11:48

One thing that I think might be getting discounted on this thread is the possibility that the wormhole threw Ledo not just through space, but also through time.

If so, then locating Ledo might be that much harder (if not impossible) for the Galactic Alliance.

Jan-Poo · 2013-05-02, 12:32

That was actually discussed in other threads.
So far there isn't something that would make it necessary to think that a time leap occurred, but of course it can't be excluded either.
It's just a bit meh, in my opinion.

The real debate here is whether there is something that prevents the alliance from contacting Ledo or if they are simply ignoring him.

A time travel would fall on the first hypothesis, especially if Ledo traveled back to a time where the alliance didn't exist yet or didn't developed that particular communication system yet. Or in a future where the alliance was wiped out.

Triple_R · 2013-05-02, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

That was actually discussed in other threads.
So far there isn't something that would make it necessary to think that a time leap occurred, but of course it can't be excluded either.
It's just a bit meh, in my opinion.

Ledo creating a butterfly effect could be interesting, but I will say I hope we see more of the Galactic Alliance before its all said and done.

ReddyRedWolf · 2013-05-02, 18:13

Well I'll be damned... It is the kid in this episode.

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Hamster · 2013-05-03, 11:10

They look pretty happy for genetically engineered cannon fodder who know nothing but war.

Raviel · 2013-05-03, 13:09

From what little we've been shown, it looks like the Alliance doesn't really prevent them from acting friendly towards each other so long as they manage to do their jobs efficiently.

I guess the Alliance also takes morale into account when looking at the efficiency of their army, in a way you could say "happy troops are effective troops".

P.S. Is it just me or is Ledo's Machine Caliber (the mech Chamber is installed in) painted differently from the others?

mikeomni · 2013-05-03, 13:36

It's probably a training unit, not Chamber. Are they coming out with prequel/supplementary books?

LostSome · 2013-05-03, 13:41

The little boy could play music and even make a flute(I don`t know how to do that) and, by the look of things, they at least tried to cure him.
I`m thinking Ledo is more pragmatic than most.

Funkatron · 2013-05-03, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raviel

From what little we've been shown, it looks like the Alliance doesn't really prevent them from acting friendly towards each other so long as they manage to do their jobs efficiently.

I guess the Alliance also takes morale into account when looking at the efficiency of their army, in a way you could say "happy troops are effective troops".

P.S. Is it just me or is Ledo's Machine Caliber (the mech Chamber is installed in) painted differently from the others?

Which begs the question: when they did dispose of that one sick kid, did Ledo wipe out the memory or did the Alliance so that the disposal didn't hinder Ledo's performance?

cyth · 2013-05-03, 17:38

At first I thought the kid was actually Ledo who was being separated from his parent and sent to space for training.

SQA · 2013-05-04, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

One thing that I think might be getting discounted on this thread is the possibility that the wormhole threw Ledo not just through space, but also through time.

If so, then locating Ledo might be that much harder (if not impossible) for the Galactic Alliance.

Another thing to keep in mind: The opening of ep 1 had some nice Gunbuster and Starship Trooper homages. Gunbuster should be best regarded for the attempt to keep relativity with FTL travel. Ledo could be hundreds of years removed from when he fought the battle.

Note: if it was several thousand years, then it would explain Chamber's location problem. 1-2 clear nights should give Chamber enough to get a pretty solid location, unless it's been thousands of years and the stars have, as a result, shifted from what his astronomical charts would say. Or Chambers' optical sensors for stars simply isn't sensitive enough inside an atmosphere to figure out star color values.

Raviel · 2013-05-04, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkatron

Which begs the question: when they did dispose of that one sick kid, did Ledo wipe out the memory or did the Alliance so that the disposal didn't hinder Ledo's performance?

I wouldn't put it above the Alliance to periodically wipe "unecessary" thoughts and memories from the minds of their soldiers just to keep them in top mental shape.

They probably want just the right amount of individuality in their troops to allow them to develop into skilled fighters and not just organic robots that can't think outside the box (i.e. Ledo and his squadron leader's decision to hold off the Hideauze so that most of their unit could escape).

On a side note, notice how that kid is wearing a mask in the picture? Assuming it is him, I think we can say that the Alliance does what it can to keep valuable combat/support personnel active, if they begin to outlive their usefulness only then would they consider disposal.

jeroz · 2013-05-05, 06:53

Just realised something.

It won't surprise me if the future antagonists uses rope to fight against Chamber, like how he was binded by his own rotational gravity field in this episode

View Poll Results: Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 4 Rating
Perfect 10	24	26.09%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	39	42.39%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	19	20.65%
7 out of 10 : Good	7	7.61%
6 out of 10 : Average	3	3.26%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

2013-05-02, 07:30	Link #187
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	There are few hints that make me think the Alliance would want to integrate all humans in itself. The first is that when Ledo recognizes that the Gargantian aren't from the alliance he assumes that they are a "wandering tribe". The term "wandering tribe" seems to imply that those that aren't part of the alliance are considered stragglers. Ledo doesn't seem to recognize that there can be sovereign nations outside the alliance. The second hint is when Chamber tentatively tries to communicate with the Gargantians the first time. He said: "you are all fellow humans" "Join alliance". It seems that for Chamber it is only logical for all humans to ally in order to fight against the common enemy. Ridget didn't react well to that... __________________

2013-05-02, 11:48	Link #188
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	One thing that I think might be getting discounted on this thread is the possibility that the wormhole threw Ledo not just through space, but also through time. If so, then locating Ledo might be that much harder (if not impossible) for the Galactic Alliance. __________________

2013-05-02, 12:32	Link #189
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	That was actually discussed in other threads. So far there isn't something that would make it necessary to think that a time leap occurred, but of course it can't be excluded either. It's just a bit meh, in my opinion. The real debate here is whether there is something that prevents the alliance from contacting Ledo or if they are simply ignoring him. A time travel would fall on the first hypothesis, especially if Ledo traveled back to a time where the alliance didn't exist yet or didn't developed that particular communication system yet. Or in a future where the alliance was wiped out. __________________

2013-05-03, 13:41	Link #195
LostSome Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Canada	The little boy could play music and even make a flute(I don`t know how to do that) and, by the look of things, they at least tried to cure him. I`m thinking Ledo is more pragmatic than most. __________________ Nyohohohoho ! It`s the law of the universe that only wizards die as virgins. You can`t let yourself die as a virgin, right ? -Old geezer.

2013-05-01, 11:15	Link #181
Cloudedmind Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: California Age: 38	I know the conversations kind of steered away from this but earlier people were commenting on whether it would be cost effective to rescue Ledo. But no one seemed to mention that Ledo isn't there by himself. It may be extremely cost effective for them to retrieve Chamber as we have no idea the time or resources it takes to create something like it. The Alliance may want to retrieve it even if they assume Ledo himself may be dead, and as such Ledo gets rescued by default.

2013-05-01, 17:20	Link #183
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	We just don't know enough about their FTL travel to say what would be possible, let alone cost-effective. Heck, we don't even know if Chamber can escape the gravity well. Still, rescuing Ledo and Chamber is completely insignificant compared to the fact they've discovered an habitable planet.

2013-05-01, 17:31	Link #184
ReddyRedWolf Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	We don't even know if they can FTL without a fleet. The wormhole maneuver was very precise and organized. Even the escape.

2013-05-02, 03:33	Link #185
Hamster Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Just one more thought. If the alliance ever discover Earth and decide to colonize, with the vast difference in technology, I don't think they have to do anything against the locals. They'll just land and go about their business while the natives watch on helplessly.

2013-05-02, 03:47	Link #186
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	The Alliance will probably want to integrate the local human resources. We don't know how fast or how forcefully, though.

2013-05-02, 18:13	Link #191
ReddyRedWolf Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	Well I'll be damned... It is the kid in this episode. Images Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

2013-05-03, 11:10	Link #192
Hamster Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	They look pretty happy for genetically engineered cannon fodder who know nothing but war.

2013-05-03, 13:09	Link #193
Raviel Senior Member Join Date: May 2012	From what little we've been shown, it looks like the Alliance doesn't really prevent them from acting friendly towards each other so long as they manage to do their jobs efficiently. I guess the Alliance also takes morale into account when looking at the efficiency of their army, in a way you could say "happy troops are effective troops". P.S. Is it just me or is Ledo's Machine Caliber (the mech Chamber is installed in) painted differently from the others?

2013-05-03, 13:36	Link #194
mikeomni Member Join Date: Apr 2013	It's probably a training unit, not Chamber. Are they coming out with prequel/supplementary books?

2013-05-03, 17:38	Link #197
cyth Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Age: 38	At first I thought the kid was actually Ledo who was being separated from his parent and sent to space for training.

2013-05-05, 06:53	Link #200
jeroz Art Block Specialist Join Date: Jun 2007	Just realised something. It won't surprise me if the future antagonists uses rope to fight against Chamber, like how he was binded by his own rotational gravity field in this episode __________________ [TAC]