[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

For reference, here is a summary of a niconico video that went through the evidence for the theory point by point. The note about the stone monuments at the old Qilian station was especially interesting.

That summary does not list how the Taiwan connection was arrived at, does the initial author mention that anywhere? Because if he doesn't, and just got that through an exhaustive search of maps, I guess this theory is confirmed even more strongly than it was before.

If he does, oh well.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

It shouldn't matter, should it? The only part of the line that matters is that you follow it "downstream" from Danshui and arrive at Qilian at some point, and that was true in both versions of the line, even though the old and new Qilians are different stations.

For reference, here is a summary of a niconico video that went through the evidence for the theory point by point. The note about the stone monuments at the old Qilian station was especially interesting.

The new Danshui line tracks the old one, but I don't know with any certainty whether the stations are the same. It's a pretty convincing prospect either way, but obviously ryukishi can't be talking about the modern line - unless he forgot.

[Jan-Poo]

O is also the Origin in cartesian coordinate systems. So it might simply mean "center".

just look at the numeric pad in your keyboard, you have a left, and up, a right and a down, and then there's a central button that corresponds to number 5. so LORD U could be translated into: 45628

Anyway it can't be chapel door because red forbids it to be opened without a chapel key. And then again Battler and Erika didn't cross a door after operating the mechanism, rather they followed a sort of signpost that moved after the mechanism was manipulated. So that means the mechanism doesn't open a door, it just moves a signpost.


you know, we have an Epitaph thread, you should check that one. Anyway look at the bottom of this page to find more about the danshui line and how it changed over time:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...=82557&page=18

[LyricalAura]

Originally Posted by Oliver

That summary does not list how the Taiwan connection was arrived at, does the initial author mention that anywhere? Because if he doesn't, and just got that through an exhaustive search of maps, I guess this theory is confirmed even more strongly than it was before.

If he does, oh well.

Nope, he doesn't really justify the choice of Taiwan as a starting point other than giving the clues that the beloved hometown is in a foreign country. Your explanation was really convincing though.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Anyway it can't be chapel door because red forbids it to be opened without a chapel key. And then again Battler and Erika didn't cross a door after operating the mechanism, rather they followed a sort of signpost that moved after the mechanism was manipulated. So that means the mechanism doesn't open a door, it just moves a signpost.

Actually the red says it can only be unlocked with the single chapel key, but she never specifically said it was locked so...

[Jan-Poo]

the anime says both things 'though, and I think it's one of those few things that were "fixed", like the miscarriage thing.

[Renall]

A mechanism that opens something may be entirely different from the door anyway. If manipulating something on the door doesn't open or close the chapel door, there's no problem. It could also simply be something on the chapel exterior or on the door, unrelated to the lock.

[Jan-Poo]

well in that case I think there's very little chance it's on the door rather than a wall or a statue.

Being a door a mobile part it'd have to be connected with the signpost with an electric cable and that would definitely be visible and suspicious.

[Renall]

Not if the deadbolt in the door, when extended to its maximum length, completed a circuit. I'm not saying that has to be what does it, just that it's possible, and it would be hard to see.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Actually the red says it can only be unlocked with the single chapel key, but she never specifically said it was locked so...

Neither she said that it could be locked even if you do have the chapel key is my point. Notice also that the chapel key has it's own background picture and is radically different from all other keys...

I was mostly thinking of operating that key like a joystick, wiggling it in the lock in the correct sequence until it pulls a cord that moves the signpost.

[Jan-Poo]

I'm not saying it's impossible either, but it looks unlikely, there is also the fact that a mechanism would be a lot less noticeable on anything that isn't a door.

I was mostly thinking of operating that key like a joystick, wiggling it in the lock in the correct sequence until it pulls a cord that moves the signpost.

this is also improbable, if not flat out impossible because in that case you'd have to think that Rosa, Eva and Erika+Battler got their hands on the chapel key.

plus there's that Erika line that says "so that's what gouge means" which could refers to pushing, or inserting, but not moving a stick.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Neither she said that it could be locked even if you do have the chapel key is my point. Notice also that the chapel key has it's own background picture and is radically different from all other keys...

I was mostly thinking of operating that key like a joystick, wiggling it in the lock in the correct sequence until it pulls a cord that moves the signpost.

I like my idea that the device or a hidden entrance is hidden behind the mirror in the shrine. I suggested that in the epitaph thread. Of course I was badgered because the shrine exploded in a lightning burst.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I'm not saying it's impossible either, but it looks unlikely, there is also the fact that a mechanism would be a lot less noticeable on anything that isn't a door.

But don't you normally expect a locking mechanism inside a door anyway? It just needs to pull a steel cord, which nobody would pay attention to.

[Renall]

Only problem is: What is the mechanism, and why haven't we been shown what it is? The door at least has been shown to us and was the subject of several red lines and a few scenes. If there's something on or near the chapel that can be manipulated, why hasn't anybody noticed it?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Oliver

But don't you normally expect a locking mechanism inside a door anyway? It just needs to pull a steel cord, which nobody would pay attention to.

I only expect it if it's the mechanism to open the door itself. I really have no knowledge of any mechanism attached to a door that open a path elsewhere.

Actually electric mechanisms and locks are most likely to be found near the door and not on the door itself.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Actually electric mechanisms and locks are most likely to be found near the door and not on the door itself.

If you assume it's electric though doesn't that make the shed the more likely location then? I don't think the chapel would need electricity, but the shed might have a light or something.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Renall

Only problem is: What is the mechanism, and why haven't we been shown what it is? The door at least has been shown to us and was the subject of several red lines and a few scenes. If there's something on or near the chapel that can be manipulated, why hasn't anybody noticed it?

Because they were not allowed to come anywhere near the chapel and were harshly scolded or punished if they did so.

Only times anyone ever visited the chapel were during regularly scheduled cleaning, which, I imagine, had to have been overseen by Genji, seeing as how the place was so important to Kinzo. I expect he was under orders not to let anyone but himself handle the key while at it, too.

[Renall]

That's not what I mean. Erika was manipulating something. Ep5 intentionally leaves us in the dark as to what that thing was. Likewise, ep3 merely shows Eva and Rosa in the tunnel, without showing us how they got there.

For the narrative to be fair, the mechanism must be in, on, or part of something that has already been described to us. Based on ep5, it appears to be outside, not inside. So what is it?

EDIT: The other exception would be if it's something we would assume every chapel has, but which isn't explicitly depicted.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I only expect it if it's the mechanism to open the door itself. I really have no knowledge of any mechanism attached to a door that open a path elsewhere.

Actually electric mechanisms and locks are most likely to be found near the door and not on the door itself.

I didn't say it's electric, did I.

Imagine the door has a lock. You only ever touch it very rarely, possibly once or twice in your life. You insert the key and turn it, it resists, so you feel the lock opens. You pull the door, it doesn't yield. You know you just unlocked it, so you pull harder. It opens and you think it just sticks.

You finish your business inside, close the door, put the key back in, and turn it. It resists again, so you feel the lock closes.

The mechanism is completely expected, it's a lock. At least you think it is. What it really does is pull a steel cord when you forcibly move the key like a joystick in a predetermined sequence, shifting sliding metallic plates with cutouts.

The other end of the steel cord goes through the invisible side of the door and into the wall, and triggers something else entirely.

[Renall]

I think, rather than a cord, something with tumbler settings or a closed circuit is more probable, but I think the exact construction of the mechanism is immaterial. Unless there's a better explanation than the door lock itself, it seems entirely probable. If you don't need to actually unlock the door to manipulate the mechanism, the reds from ep2 remain totally fine, as the goal of the manipulation is neither to open nor close the door, nor to lock or unlock it, but merely to trigger something.