Game of Thrones

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Tywin knows. Believe what you will, but half of King's Landing does.

If half of King's Landing knew, then the entire family would be dead by now. It took Jon Arryn 16 some years before he finally gleaned the truth, so I'm unsure why anyone would think the twincest was an open secret ala Renly's homosexuality.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

In any case, I strongly disapprove of the changes Weiss and Benioff made to the sex scene, effectively turning it into a rape. I really wonder where they're going here, as it seems to undercut much of Jamie's development.

Completely agree. I was okay with the changes made to Dany's first sex scene, but this rape scene completely destroys Jaime's progress and seems to exist only to shock. The book scene itself was crazy enough to begin with, but the directors/writers simply pushed it too far, especially on the heels of an amazing Charles Dance monologue.

[sunset]

Originally Posted by james0246

If half of King's Landing knew, then the entire family would be dead by now. It took Jon Arryn 16 some years before he finally gleaned the truth, so I'm unsure why anyone would think the twincest was an open secret ala Renly's homosexuality.

I was under the impression that Stannis would have used the rumor mill as a weapon to erode Joffrey's legitimacy, being that even Joffrey heard about it.
There's an episode where he says to Cercei something like:
"- I heard the most disgusting rumour about you and uncle Jamie."

[james0246]

Originally Posted by sunset

I was under the impression that Stannis would have used the rumor mill as a weapon to erode Joffrey's legitimacy, being that even Joffrey heard about it.
There's an episode where he says to Cercei something like:
"- I heard the most disgusting rumour about you and uncle Jamie."

Stannis and Jon Arryn were both investigating Joffery's legitimacy at the beginning of the book/television series (after 25 or so years of Cersei diddling her twin), and this investigation eventually led to the truth, but their investigations were not based on specific accounts of Jaime and Cersei seen fornicating, but simple observations concerning Robert's children and Cersei's children.

Stannis's opening gambit at the start of the war was to send messages to all the Lords and Ladies detailing this information and denouncing Joffery as the rightful heir. But, he lost his main battle, so his letter is treated as rumour more than truth.

edit: Here is a fun little interactive map detailing the travels of all the characters and various other fun bits of geographical information. Note, using this site to its full potential will showcase spoilers without context. Thankfully, you are allowed to chose information based on the books or the television series.

[Fevvers]

Re that rape scene, I've always construed the scene in the book as pretty rapey. Which of course doesn't really negate Jaime's development for me as some people here seem to think. Just because a character has moments of goodness in them doesn't mean they can be any less horrible (I mean this is the same guy who pushed Bran for goodness sake).

[sunset]

Originally Posted by Fevvers

Re that rape scene, I've always construed the scene in the book as pretty rapey. Which of course doesn't really negate Jaime's development for me as some people here seem to think. Just because a character has moments of goodness in them doesn't mean they can be any less horrible (I mean this is the same guy who pushed Bran for goodness sake).

The scene was downright awful, no two ways about it, but let's not forget we are judging a medieval-esque world through the prism of western XXI century morality, where up to a couple decades ago a girl would only believe in your earnest commitment to her if you relentlessly chase her like a borderline stalker.

I just saw a girl call Emilia Clarke essentially a whore on Facebook because she appeared nude in season #1.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Fevvers

Re that rape scene, I've always construed the scene in the book as pretty rapey. Which of course doesn't really negate Jaime's development for me as some people here seem to think. Just because a character has moments of goodness in them doesn't mean they can be any less horrible (I mean this is the same guy who pushed Bran for goodness sake).

I'm with Martin on this one - that scene in the book played as completely consensual to me.

[Destined_Fate]

Well, it looks like the Mother of Dragons is taking cities by storm. Girl knows whats up.

Seems that the TV series is trying to have Arya corrupted more by the Hound... I wonder if she'll even get to meet the Faceless Men's lil group this season. I mean they already changed quite a bit for her and I don't think they would keep her out of the action for a long time like the Novels have done.

Has there been aging? Tyrion mentioned that Sansa was tormented by the King for years, no?

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

I really didn't like what Jaime did, pretty horrible. I really wanted to be a fan of his, and thought his experiences would humble him and make him into a better man(I like redemption development), but I guess I keep forgetting that this is the asshole that pushed a little kid out a window.

I never liked Jamie, If anything, just rewatch season 1 to renew your hatred for him, he was a hardcore d-bag.

lol I'm so nervous for poor Sansa when she's around that guy. He definitely has some plans, as he always shows such an eerie fondness for her. Originally he wanted to wed her to gain control of the north, and I don't think even with all his spies that he knows about the other brother who is still alive yet(nor does the north know of her marriage to Tyrion?).

Who knows what Peter is doing, he's the biggest enigma and the most self serving. But she's safer with him than in Kings Landing that's for damn sure.

I laughed when Cersei told him this isn't the time or place, and he just kept right on with a smirk and even rubbed it in saying "You're brother wasn't a wise king, he wasn't a good king either." lol, I loved the look on Cersei's face when she couldn't rebut with one of her cutting remarks.

She's too chicken shit to talk back to him anyway. Tyrion is the only one with the balls to stand up to Tywin.

[Destined_Fate]

I'm sure deep down she knows that Tywin had her son murdered.

[Xagzan]

...I hope that's not a spoiler

[MrTerrorist]

I find it interesting that Tywin not only knows about the Mance's Wildings Army coming from the Wall but Daenerys has three dragons (unlike last season where he dismiss it as a tall tale to Joffrey) that he's willing to have both the Tyrells and Martells to help him to prepare these threats especially the latter since they have experience fighting against dragons.

So i wonder why he hasn't send men to both the Wall and Essos to deal with these threats before it arrives to the 7 kingdoms?

[GDB]

Well, they did JUST finish fighting a war, and they know that Stannis is still after them. How many soldiers would he have to send to the wall and Essos to actually accomplish anything? And how vulnerable would that leave King's Landing?

[Kyero Fox]

Not to mention The Dragon Mothers far superior numbers. If they want any chance of beating her, they are gonna need a ton more soldiers...that won't run at the sight of the dragons.

[HayashiTakara]

I'm wondering how many more seasons until Deneres shows up to Westeros, is she really planning on conquering all of the eastern countries? If so... well whoever is sitting on the iron throne when she shows up is royally screwed.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Xagzan

...I hope that's not a spoiler

I have no idea who killed the kid, did the Novels even reveal who did it?

I'm guessing it's Tywin based off everything he said and how quick he agreed to arrest his unfavored Dwarf child. He's also the only one powerful enough to coerce everyone in King's landing to vote the way he wants and there's no doubt that he will use the trial as a way to get rid of the stain to his family name that is Tyrion.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

I find it interesting that Tywin not only knows about the Mance's Wildings Army coming from the Wall but Daenerys has three dragons (unlike last season where he dismiss it as a tall tale to Joffrey) that he's willing to have both the Tyrells and Martells to help him to prepare these threats especially the latter since they have experience fighting against dragons.

I was wondering about that. Is Tywin simply using the "rumor" of the girl with three dragons as more leverage to seal the alliance? Or did he really know the truth all along but simply dismissed it as a rumor to Joffrey just to get him to shut up about it while he runs things? (Perhaps he feared that Joffery might have panicked and done something reckless, leaving Kings Landing even more vulnerable)

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I'm wondering how many more seasons until Deneres shows up to Westeros, is she really planning on conquering all of the eastern countries? If so... well whoever is sitting on the iron throne when she shows up is royally screwed.

I would love to finally see her interact with some of the characters in Westeros. Watching her interact with people on the other side of the world that we have no reason to care about is getting a little dry. I loved how she's developed though.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Oh little finger, why doesn't your appearance surprise me? I'm just glad that Sanza is safe for now.

I'm not sure Sansa being in Little Fingers clutches remotely qualifies as safe.

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

So i wonder why he hasn't send men to both the Wall and Essos to deal with these threats before it arrives to the 7 kingdoms?

What navy would he use to transport an army to Essos? The biggest fleets belong to the Iron Born and Stannis. Hostile to Tywin. You'd need a large force to contend with Dany's army. She has 8000 unbreakable elite spearmen who'd fight to the last man for her, and a couple thousand veteran mercenary cavalry. And then there's the wild card of dragons, who could be quite big by the time your force gets across the ocean. You're talking about an army of tens of thousands of men. And how do you supply this army once it's in Essos? If you just start pillaging and foraging for supplies anywhere you like you'll be fighting with more than just Dany. Do you negotiate with some local faction in Essos to accept the presence of tens of thousands of foreigners in their land as protection against Dany? Won't they be terrified of this army taking them over?

This doesn't even consider that the Lannisters have much more immediate threats. Pike and Stannis are still in the game. And shifting large numbers of Lannister soldiers North and East to the wall and Essos might give them an opening. And this isn't even considering the danger of the Dornish deciding to come up from the south if the Lannisters/Tyrels weakened themselves so blatantly. They still have a mad-on for Elia getting murdered at the end of Roberts rebellion , and if Tywin is happy to weaken his center, they're happy to take advantage of it.

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Not to mention The Dragon Mothers far superior numbers. If they want any chance of beating her, they are gonna need a ton more soldiers...that won't run at the sight of the dragons.

Don't forget the Unsullied. Dany has eight thousand meat robot soldiers who'd voluntarily throw their lives away for her. Unsullied may not be equipped to easily take out a plate armored Westeros Knights, but against regular leather/chainmail clad food soldiers? It'd be a horrific war of attrition against enemies who fear neither pain or death. Do you think a company of regular Lannister spearmen could possibly win in a head to head fight against Unsullied?

[Kyero Fox]

Anyway, am I the only one who would love to live in that place she attacked? That place looks freakin awesome. Like a MMO's desert captial city.


....of course with today's tech... no slaves...

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

I'm not sure Sansa being in Little Fingers clutches remotely qualifies as safe.

Like I said afterwards, far safer than if she was in Kings Landing.

Honestly I wish she had left Kings Landing with the Hound in season 2, it would've been a fun adventure of beauty and the beast.

[sunset]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Like I said afterwards, far safer than if she was in Kings Landing.

Honestly I wish she had left Kings Landing with the Hound in season 2, it would've been a fun adventure of beauty and the beast.

She'd be hyperventilating at the first of the many life lessons he's presently bestowing upon her baby sister.