(L) Kimi ni Todoke Second Season

[Stefkov]

A good episode that progressed the story nicely, at least I thought so.
I can't remember how events unfold now but I know how it ends. There's not many shows I've seen which make me sit back and just smile.

This is also the only show (that I remember) I'm watching where I make an effort to watch the OP and ED. The music and visuals are perfect. Usually I watch them in the first episode then skip thereafter.

[Kismet-chan]

A nice episode. I thought it progressed the story nicely, and I really loved the BGM in the beginning moments of the episode (with Sawako and the cherry blossoms). It's sad that Kazehaya and Sawako have gone a bit backwards in their relationship, but it's a very human thing that happens and makes a lot of sense. I can relate to it personally, so I'm totally fine with it. It'll just make things all the more sweet once they warm up to one another again. <3

[MeoTwister5]

I have to admit that, if memory serves me correctly, this part starts what I still think is the relative low point in the manga for me, which goes back to the usual stuff I love after a few chapters through this angst period. On the other hand, it gives us a lot of perspective into the relative darkness that does exist under the picture-perfect face of Kazehaya Shota.

Blog post to follow.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I have to admit that, if memory serves me correctly, this part starts what I still think is the relative low point in the manga for me

A lot of people say that, though then again a lot of people don't read shoujo manga.

[MeoTwister5]

It's usually this part of any Shoujo that I find to be the low point, but since it's standard and almost required, complaining becomes sort of pointless anyway.

[Waven]

Without these low points you couldn't appreciate the nicer parts, right?

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

It's usually this part of any Shoujo that I find to be the low point, but since it's standard and almost required, complaining becomes sort of pointless anyway.

You probably wouldn't last with some of the shoujo manga i'd recommend you.

Personally i don't see it as a low point, far from it though it's obviously not for everyone.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

You probably wouldn't last with some of the shoujo manga i'd recommend you.

Personally i don't see it as a low point, far from it though it's obviously not for everyone.

I fought my way through Moe Kare while keeping my eyeballs from ripping around my optic nerves, so yeah.

An Extra Wheel

For all of Sawako’s niceness as the core of her personality, there’s really such as a thing as being too nice for one’s own good. Ume has (unintentionally?) inserted into her mind the idea that “Shota is for everyone.” For one that’s one of the angles that Sawako thinks of him, which is something excusable, considering that Shota really is a nice guy to everyone no matter their social standings in the school. He made no distinction nor special consideration for Sawako and treated her just like a classmate, even though he does have other ulterior motives for doing so. It just so happens that, for the longest time, Sawako thinks that he’s just being nice because that’s who he is. That’s true for the most part, but she’s not getting the idea that Shota thinks of her very, very differently.

The thing is that Sawako’s excessively selfless and nice personality has led her to think that she does not possess the right to “claim” Shota for herself by giving in to her ever growing attraction to him that she just recently noticed. She has come to think that she should not lay her stake on him because he’s “everybody’s man”, and taking him for herself would somehow deprive everyone else of Shota for her own “selfish” needs. In her mind she’s putting everyone else’s needs before her own, as she is that kind of person, but in the process fails to realize that in reality there isn’t always the need for an equivalent exchange. She doesn’t need to give up on him for everyone’s sake.

That’s just so far from the truth.

[zebra]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

The thing is that Sawako’s excessively selfless and nice personality has led her to think that she does not possess the right to “claim” Shota for herself by giving in to her ever growing attraction to him that she just recently noticed.

Hmm. Haven't thought about it like that before.
I took her hesitance as her finally noticing her selfish side actually. That she simply didn't want to pretend that she only thinks of Kazehaya as a friend, because that feeling of longing becomes stronger. But she's afraid of rejection, so she finally understand what the whole "Kazehaya is for everyone" thing was about. As long as he isn't dating anyone, nothing changes.
I took it as her finally realizing that she doesn't only like him, but that she also wants him to herself. She's positive he could never like her back, so that fear of losing him or things becoming just different sets in, leading to her awkward behaviour.
That she feels bad just about thinking of 'claiming' him and it being greedy, is her way-too-kind behaviour again.

Sawako not giving Kazehaya the chocoate was actually the first selfish act of hers imo
I would have expected her going into the direction of "Oh I gave everyone chocolate, not giving Kazeyaha anything would be extremely rude." But she didn't because she didn't want to act against her feelings ... and simply was afraid of the consequences.
I saw that as the main problem this time. Her uber kindness is still her biggest fault, but it's also a virtue at the same time

[orion]

Originally Posted by zebra

I would have expected her going into the direction of "Oh I gave everyone chocolate, not giving Kazeyaha anything would be extremely rude." But she didn't because she didn't want to act against her feelings ... and simply was afraid of the consequences.
I saw that as the main problem this time. Her uber kindness is still her biggest fault, but it's also a virtue at the same time

She's too high maintenance. I just want to strangle her.

She's afraid of rejection and can't properly verbalize her feelings. The basic problem with the "everybody's Kazehaya" scenario. So that no one has to live with rejection, live in your fantasy world where you just remain friends with the guy you like. Kindness has nothing to do with this problem. She's a freakin coward and needs her butt kicked.

She wanted to say something "special" but in the end said nothing and now he has the wrong idea with competition sitting right next to her.

Well, I guess this puts the ball in his court. Kazehaya has to "work" for her.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by orion

She's a freakin coward and needs her butt kicked.

Can you please just keep in mind who Sawako is. Remember what she was like before this series even start. This is the first time she's ever had this kind of feelings, together with her past attitude of course she's going to take this route.

Some people just seem to forget who Sawako is.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Can you please just keep in mind who Sawako is. Remember what she was like before this series even start. This is the first time she's ever had this kind of feelings, together with her past attitude of course she's going to take this route.

Some people just seem to forget who Sawako is.

It's still cowardly. I haven't forgotten.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by orion

It's still cowardly.

& personally i don't see why she needs so much grief from viewers because of it. I guess i just view Sawako differently from others.

[Kismet-chan]

The main thing people seem to forget or fail to realize is that while the major theme of Kimi ni Todoke is first (and seemingly unrequited) love, the second theme is innocence. And that's what Sawako is supposed to represent; one of the purest manifestations of innocence you could find in a person. With that being said, her large amounts of kindness and constant misunderstandings (how she tends to take things VERY literally) are to be excused, as they stem from this innocent mindframe of hers. You must also consider how she has been socially isolated up until the events of this story, so of course she will not act the way the average person would in most situations.

tl;dr version = Sawako isn't normal, so you can't expect her to have normal actions. This is all a first for her, so she has to crawl through it for now. She'll eventually learn to walk, but you must be patient. That's an integral part of what this show is about.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

The main thing people seem to forget or fail to realize is that while the major theme of Kimi ni Todoke is first (and seemingly unrequited) love,

If you're talking about the main pairing, it'd be more accurate to say it's about misunderstandings. It's quickly apparent to the reader and to Ayane that the love is requited.

the second theme is innocence. And that's what Sawako is supposed to represent; one of the purest manifestations of innocence you could find in a person. With that being said, her large amounts of kindness and constant misunderstandings (how she tends to take things VERY literally) are to be excused, as they stem from this innocent mindframe of hers. You must also consider how she has been socially isolated up until the events of this story, so of course she will not act the way the average person would in most situations.

But, in not giving her chocolates, she didn't act out of innocence. She fell to the level of all those girls who went "everyone's Kazehaya". Like Kurumi, she hid her love. (Though at least she didn't impede others', so there is that.) I'm not saying she turned into a monster, or that it's out of character for her to act as she did. But in this instance, she didn't act out of her usual innocence. She's changing, growing. That's life.

tl;dr version = Sawako isn't normal, so you can't expect her to have normal actions. This is all a first for her, so she has to crawl through it for now. She'll eventually learn to walk, but you must be patient. That's an integral part of what this show is about.

Heh. She got cold feet, and was too shy to confess her feelings. There's nothing abnormal about that. As I said... she's changing. She's starting to want things for herself. That means she's getting acquainted with fear.

[zebra]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Heh. She got cold feet, and was too shy to confess her feelings. There's nothing abnormal about that. As I said... she's changing. She's starting to want things for herself. That means she's getting acquainted with fear.

I agree with that. It's actual normal behaviour Sawako displayed there. She backed down instead of taking the risk of exposing her feelings. Very common behaviour for a teenage girl, specially a shy one. Not even minding that it's the first time she feels that way.

[Kismet-chan]

@Anh_Minh: Um, you blew like, every point I was trying to make out of proportion a lil bit (you didn't comprehend what I was saying in the way I meant it at all)... I would elaborate on what I actually meant in more simplistic terms, but I'm too lazy to paraphrase everything I typed in that post, so yeah... But whatever gets the general point across, I guess.

[Velsy]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Can you please just keep in mind who Sawako is. Remember what she was like before this series even start. This is the first time she's ever had this kind of feelings, together with her past attitude of course she's going to take this route.

Some people just seem to forget who Sawako is.

Exactly, thats why I've been avoiding kimi ni todoke discussions, because I know alot of people will be complaining and throwing insults because she isnt some awesome romantic. Her tale is getting interesting with all these twists. I just bored atm between animes and decided to browse a bit before getting aback into it.

These first 2 episode results is because how Sawako is. How she acts and thinks. I think its been a great 2 episodes.

Yay for at least 1 person understanding.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

For all of Sawako’s niceness as the core of her personality, there’s really such as a thing as being too nice for one’s own good. Ume has (unintentionally?) inserted into her mind the idea that “Shota is for everyone.” For one that’s one of the angles that Sawako thinks of him, which is something excusable, considering that Shota really is a nice guy to everyone no matter their social standings in the school. He made no distinction nor special consideration for Sawako and treated her just like a classmate, even though he does have other ulterior motives for doing so. It just so happens that, for the longest time, Sawako thinks that he’s just being nice because that’s who he is. That’s true for the most part, but she’s not getting the idea that Shota thinks of her very, very differently.

The thing is that Sawako’s excessively selfless and nice personality has led her to think that she does not possess the right to “claim” Shota for herself by giving in to her ever growing attraction to him that she just recently noticed. She has come to think that she should not lay her stake on him because he’s “everybody’s man”, and taking him for herself would somehow deprive everyone else of Shota for her own “selfish” needs. In her mind she’s putting everyone else’s needs before her own, as she is that kind of person, but in the process fails to realize that in reality there isn’t always the need for an equivalent exchange. She doesn’t need to give up on him for everyone’s sake.

Great post, and lets not forget that Shouta is over analysing things too. We don't get to hear his thoughts, but damn it man make more of an effort and stop giving up so easily.

Both of them are driving me nuts. I deliberately didn't watch epi 1 until 2 came out because I thought that they could have left valentines days as a cliff hanger, but instead I'm even more worked up. Still loving the show

@orion - I wouldn't call Sawako a coward. She over analyses things, and is over considerate. She thinks she is being selfish by pushing her feelings onto others and ends up winding herself up. She doesn't want to risk her friendship with Shouta, because it means so much to her, especially since I believe she doesn't really understand her feelings for him. Ume helped in a strange way. I think Sawako would have hated herself if she did give the chocolates with false pretenses, instead now she is forced to face her feelings and hopefully overcome that hurdle.

Now if that isn't enough enter Kento.....

The worst thing is Kento is the type of person who probably could get a relationship going with a person like Sawako as he would drag her along at his pace. The only thing in Shouta's favour is that she is true to her heart and won't just go along for the ride.

Come on guys sort it out!!!! *bangs head on desk*

[Itlandm]

I love Sawako. I have known several girls that were very much like her. They were raised in an old-fashioned Church where innocence was a main virtue. Nobody had a TV, and few had radio. Mothers stayed home and raised their children. When the kids were old enough, they went to public school, but they came straight home afterwards and spent their free time at home, or in church, or together with other families from the same church. Parents were always thinking of how their children could be preserved in innocence, especially the girls. This resulted in Sawako type girls, who had no problem with being alone at school, as long as they knew their parents loved them, and who had no realistic expectations about how humans would act. They were also extremely cute. Having known girls like that, you would never again consider marrying an ordinary woman.