|
View Poll Results: Who is the ultimate shinobi? | |||
The 1st | 24 | 5.99% | |
The 2nd | 3 | 0.75% | |
Sarutobi | 117 | 29.18% | |
The 4th | 119 | 29.68% | |
Jiraiya | 27 | 6.73% | |
Orochimaru | 10 | 2.49% | |
Tsunde | 4 | 1.00% | |
Itachi | 73 | 18.20% | |
Other...[Please State Who] | 24 | 5.99% | |
Voters: 401. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
2004-08-27, 16:06 | Link #301 |
Mashou no Tenshi
|
Hmm, I think though, that the Yondaime would've kept on getting stronger for at least 10-20 years. He died pretty young, afterall. Also, although he might not have been a ninjutsu specialist, his genius at ninjutsu at least ranks along with Orochimaru. Afterall, we only know of 2 jutsu he left behind. One contained the most powerful demon in the Naruto world, and the other is one of the highest tai/nin class jutsus around. How many more of these amazing creations are there? He created these all at a relatively young, age, too, compared to Orochimaru and Tsunade who came up with amazing techniques later in life.
|
2004-08-27, 17:52 | Link #302 |
Crescent & Star
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Amsterdam
Age: 37
|
I think it's simple. The 3th was called greatest among all other shinobi "god of shinobi" but Yondaime became Hokage while the 3th was alive, thus surpassing him, because being Hokage means being the strongest person in the village and if you are ellected while the former Hokage is allive just means the other one is just surpassed... right?
And if 4th surpassed him at such a young age, who knows how strong he might have become doubling his age, let's say at his 46? INSANE!!! |
2004-08-27, 19:09 | Link #303 | ||
日本語を食べません!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 41
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2004-08-27, 19:11 | Link #304 |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
If the 3rd thought he needed to let the title of Hokage, he should have a good reason for that and the only one I can see is that he thought that he started to be too old and that at this age he wasn't really very stronger than his chosen sucessor.
And that means that if despite that he's still known as the strongest ever, he should have lost a significant part of his strength in his fifty |
2004-08-27, 19:25 | Link #306 |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
If you were fool enough to waste your time to read my freakin' huge discussion with Macbrother, you would know that I do think that the peak of power of the Sannin was when they were younger
But if you would have read it, you would know that Macbrother heavily disagree with me so basically you can think what you want But then why the 3rd gave up the job to the 4th? |
2004-08-27, 19:32 | Link #307 |
Crescent & Star
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Amsterdam
Age: 37
|
HUNTER YOU ARE A FUNNY GUY!!!
you know people. I would NEVER read that discussion. waaaaaay too much info (that from a guy that reads a lotta big books). your conversations with macbrother are like the clash of the 'big brain' titans LOL. anyway to answer you: Because the 4th had surpassed him. (somehow this answer doesn't fit). |
2004-08-27, 19:32 | Link #308 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
|
Quote:
I'd imagine he spent his retirement doing Jiraiya-style "research." Must have been a real bummer when the 4th died and he had to go back to being a respectable hokage |
|
2004-08-27, 19:35 | Link #309 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
i dunno if the 4rth was better than the 3rd when he gave him title of hokage. I think its likely he felt the 4rth would surpass him with time, and maybe he felt the 4rth truely had a better will than him, and would make better decesions. Also he had been hokage all his life maybe he wanted to be not a hokage for awhile. But really its hard to compare ninja's in truth you beating one guy doesnt mean your stronger than everyone else he was able to beat. Once you reach a certain level it all depends on teh situation i think. Anyhow eventually we ll see more info about the 4rth if kishimoto remembers, seems the world is barreling high speed into foward motion now, without much time to look back
|
2004-08-27, 19:56 | Link #311 | |
日本語を食べません!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 41
|
Quote:
At the age that the 4th took over the job of Hokage, he may have been stronger than Sarutobi. That is a very real possibility. What that does NOT mean is that 'the strongest is the leader. Period. Without question.' If that were the case, then in some places the leader would be changing every day. As soon as someone breaks his wrist, he's not Kage anymore. He can't form seals and therefore can't fight as well as someone else. When his wrist heals, he's Kage again. Also, there was a discussion about who would take over after Sandaime. If the selection process was 'strongest, PERIOD' then there would have been no question of the successor, right? And yes, the r0x0rs thing was a dig because we don't know how strong Yondaime would have been, true, but you seem to imply that he would have been somewhere in the vicinity of twice as strong at twice the age... Or, at the very least, it goes something like, "I've been working out for a year, and I can bench press 250 pounds instead of 100. Imagine how strong I'll be in twenty years..." |
|
2004-08-27, 19:59 | Link #312 | |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
Quote:
And Shadamehr, you forget his crystal ball, which channel do you think he watched with? ^^ |
|
2004-08-27, 22:33 | Link #313 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The mac
|
First of all,
Quote:
Quote:
My point is only emphasized by Sarutobi, Yondaime, etc they are in fact geniuses, ninjutsu specialists who would more than probably learned and/or created more jutsu with time. The point of the sannin was that we had actual data sets of people at 50 who don't show even a hint of being hindered or weakened by age. You tried to argue well they aren't regular ninja, I can't use that for the general case, but then again I'm using them to prove my point about Sarutobi and Yondaime, who are far from the general case as well. Quote:
When I say a perfect example, I mean to say that they are of the same category (legendarily strong, genius, etc) like Yondaime, therefore it's similar data. And no, lol we don't know how their strength grew (or fell), but we do know that with their new jutsu, experience, etc, they could probably (or in the case of Orochimaru) certainly defeat their younger counterparts. And wish? lol. Let's not get carried away. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for Oro, no, that doesn't put him out of the point, that only proves my point, he created a new jutsu given time which helps him defeat old age. I would say that's improving strength with jutsu, wouldn't you? If we are solely talking about how age effects Oro, then yes, now with the jutsu he's got an X-factor, but still, do you think w/o the immortality jutsu he would've fared any worse against Sarutobi? Hardly. As for Tsunade, agian, there's nothing showing the younger Tsunade would have a significant advantage enough to beat the older one to a pulp. I'm aware you say 'if' and therefore are just saying that it's possible, but that is a very big if. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The many missions he was engaging in, the fact that he hadn't been turned down has Hokage yet and we have nothing to show he was completely evil before then, surely someone of normal mind would not try to learn a jutsu such as this. Again, it's way more likely he got turned down and then started working on these 'evil' jutsu like Edo Tensei and the immortality one. In fact, in the manga translation, one of the anbu members says "your behavior has changed as well." Meaning, before then, Oro was probably not exhibiting the evilness which would be necessary to learn/create these kinjutsu. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Spoiler:
And here I was beginning to think your memory of the manga was photographic. You see? It shows how age can affect you, Hunter-sensei :P Oh, and yeah, I would consider movment so fast that you can't even clearly see their images to be fairly incredible movement for people who should be 25 years slower than their prime. (unless perhaps in their prime they moved at some speed beyond all recognition, which I don't think likely.) Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
2004-08-30, 16:39 | Link #315 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
They will polish their skill with experience but probably never learn new trick after a certain age. Now yes, The Sannin and their kind are different than the average Ninja Joe. Which means that they're far stronger than them, not that age isn't a burden even if they can compensate it better than others because of their greatness. Quote:
Oro precisely created a jutsu to avoid the effect of age, you just can't use him to say that age isn't a factor of weakness. For the two others, you just have no clue, there is no absolutely no 'certainely' here. Quote:
Quote:
Once again it's why I answered to you in the first place, if not I would have just agree to disagree. Quote:
You talk of accumulation of knowledge, that's experience not wisdom, you use this word out of its context. If you talk only of fighting ability then use the proper terms, no need to say wisdom if you mean experience,that just leads to misunderstanding. Quote:
Let me reformulate that, did you see old ninja learning new jutsu and keep training? Even for the Sannin, when did Jiraiya learn the Rasengan from the 4th? When he was about in his 35 at max given that the 4th died not long after that. When did Tsunade create her jutsu? She had 25~30 years to do it and it doesn't seem to be something new. Notice also that Oro this jutsu freak was only interested by the new jutsu of Tsunade, he obviously knew the other capacities that Jiraiya and Tsunade showed which leads to think that even the Sannin uses the Jutsu they used in their youth. I do think Oro developped more jutsu because it's his absolute main goal after all. Quote:
Quote:
And no the Sannin aren't more relavent given that you don't know that their overall strength is the same as before. Btw when I say we don't know I mean it, we don't know if they're as strong, stronger or weaker than they were. Quote:
As I said above We're discussing of the effect of age not time, using Oro who isn't old in moronic. In this case you can also use Naruto, he's a proof that time allows you to gain more jutsu, but oh guess what he's not old. Neither is Oro. Quote:
I don't know, even if frankly I would say no. Quote:
I think it's quite probable that Tsunade in her twenty was healthier, better trained, had more endurance, etc. Tsunade is the best example of the Sannin being strong in spite of their age and not thanks to their experience and new jutsu, she's out of shape, she abandonned being a ninja about 30 years ago, she couldn't even be a medic due to her phobia. She basically thrown away her live wandering and gambling without goal during the major part of her life. And still she's frighteningly strong. Quote:
In a fine body, with healthy organs and cells, etc. there is no reason that the chakra of Oro would decrease. Quote:
And she isn't in her prime even if she transform her body. Quote:
Quote:
And that contrary to what you keep saying you really affirm that your point is 'right period' and not just merely possible most of the time. For Oro I already answered above. Quote:
You made a direct connection between the aging process and the fact that the world of Naruto is exagerated. And again you don't go by appearance, merely by what you would want and you state that in a way very near the 'definitive statement'. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The sentence is a whole, the 2nd said that they were summoned by Oro so the 1st said : If that so we have to fight you, there is no interogation neither wondering at all in this sentence. Quote:
The problem is that in this part Raikage talked about how magician becomes indeed stronger with age... And you whipped out the part just after where he explained why Ninjas differ of these magicians! So you can agree or disagree with him but in the end Raikage thinks as well that the Sannin aren't as strong as in their prime and than part of the myth of the Sannin is that they're still incredibly strong in spite of their oldness, so to say that he agreed with you is quite amazing. Quote:
And the Rasengan is a Ninjutsu used along with Taijutsu, as the Chidori it's a jutsu that you use in close combat, something at the antipode of Oro style. Quote:
But whatever, the meaning remained more or less : there is no indication of incredible move. Oro isn't known for his Taijutsu abilities anyways, Jiraiya never showed anything in this field either and if it should be Tsunade's strong point, she's now completely out of shape, paining to catch Kabuto who isn't particulary good in Taijutsu. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My point is that the 3rd didn't have to wait to know and use all the jutsu of Konoha to be the strongest which is why I think he was known as the strongest before being known as the professor Btw why did the 3rd thought he needed to let the title of Hokage in his fifty? If he was even stronger in his fifty than in his prime and if age isn't a problem at all, why did he dropped the title of Hokage? |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
2004-09-12, 13:22 | Link #316 |
Uchiha Opposition
Join Date: Sep 2004
Age: 37
|
Wow... you guys talk alot about the hokages. makes me wonder if you guys have forgotten about the people who cant become hokage because of obvious reasons, im talking about Itachi, at 18 he can most likely take on jiraiya and win. oro is afraid of him. Not to mention he has destroyed his entire clan.. if you ask me this is a real show of power.
The fact that the 3rd knew all of the Kohona jutsu's wont matter, since itachi can easly copy everyone of them since they arnt blood lines, also itachi more than likely knows numorous jutsus from other villages that sarutobi does not.. this also brings me back to the fact that itachi is only 18 and is obviously not in his prime think of the damage he could do at the age of 30 or even 50 after he has had time to develope himself even further. As far as the 4th goes, we know hardly anything about thim other than the fact that he became hokage at an early age.. had a couple of amazing jutsus and also defeated kyubi at the cost of dieing. The fact of that is that Itachi never had a chance to fight kyubi and try to defeat him, and Itachi HAS learned alot of amazing jutsus prolly more so than the 4th. |
2004-09-12, 13:59 | Link #319 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
|
I think people need to remember that Sarutobi wanted Orochimaru to succeed him as Hokage but didn't chose him because his twisted ideals. That is a testament to Orochimarus strength, simply because it's definately NOT a testament to Orochimarus personality which is why the 3rd didn't chose him.
Remember this has nothing to do with the 4th being chosen OVER Orochimaru because Orochimaru had already been denied way before the 4th came into the picture. As far as who created the greatest jitsu? I think immortality is a pretty big assed accomplishment lol and has more utility than committing suicide and sealing someone in deaths stomach. It has been stated that Orochimaru has "Kill myself and yourself" techniques of his own but his goal isn't too protect someone at all costs so why even use it? I think if someone comes inevitably comes close to killing Orochimaru we might see some evil shit though. In conclusion Orochimaru hasn't been pushed to the point where he had to use a trump card yet, remember all great ninjas save their best techniques for last. Orochimaru is a great ninja I doubt that he'd show his best techniques up front (IE the summoning of the dead was not his final technique, people just assume it was, it was just a way to screw with Sarutobi and weigh the scales heavily in Orochimarus favor) By the time Sarutobi grabbed him to seal him however he was unable to move. From that point Orochimaru had no arms so we COULDN'T see anymore moves Orochimaru may have. |
2004-09-12, 14:16 | Link #320 | |||||
Cool as a Cucumber
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Holland
|
Quote:
Quote:
As for your clan argument, we don't know the strength of his members and he probably suprised them(your own godamn familiy!), not much of a showoff really.. Quote:
And what's with this "konoha jutsu's"? he knew almost all jutu's not just the konoha jutsu's. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||||
|
|