(L) Last Exile -Fam, The Silver Wing-

[leokiko]

Originally Posted by Shadow X

I really wish they animate Hourglass instead of this.

I'm picking up this old comment because it express exactly what I think. I hope this gets animated after this season.

[Myssa Rei]

leokiko: Wishing for it won't make it happen, ESPECIALLY since it only comes out once a month. And when was uncertainly not fun? Heck, speculah is half the fun in series like this. How everything fits and how things relate to each other... It gives people something to chew on, for those who like to figure out the details of a world setting.

[leokiko]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

leokiko: Wishing for it won't make it happen, ESPECIALLY since it only comes out once a month. And when was uncertainly not fun? Heck, speculah is half the fun in series like this. How everything fits and how things relate to each other... It gives people something to chew on, for those who like to figure out the details of a world setting.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean the ''uncertain'' part, just the adaptation of the manga. Ok, then at least let me wish for it. Specially since it COULD easily happen after this one in form of OVAS.

[Julio C]

Chapter 5 of the manga was whack, nothing really happened. The manga has awesome character development, but we have yet to see how the Silvius was built and how Tatiana got to be the captain. I needs to pick up the pace.

As what may happened in the next episode, since both Exiles aren't likely to attack each other they could just get neutralize and if Ades is smart enough they can take advantage and move around Glacies and proceed towards Glacies territory.

Dyan did say that there are more Glacies bases and we don't know how small or big they might be. It makes me wonder why would Glacies stronghold be so close to the border?

[Panzerklein]

Originally Posted by Julio C

Dyan did say that there are more Glacies bases and we don't know how small or big they might be. It makes me wonder why would Glacies stronghold be so close to the border?

Maybe it's just a border outpost. The main bases may have stronger force. And we don't see any Glacis battleship yet.

[leokiko]

The first half was average at best. It did a lot right (animation, awesome battles, great soundtrack), but failed character-wise (Fam is stupid and I can point out a few posts here to prove my statement). Chapter 9 was the peak of it. Fam was the one that messed up and ignored Giselle's feelings, but in the end, GISELE was the one that had to apologize? That was uber ridiculous and the worst chapter in the series.

The highlight was the appearence of a few characters from the old LE, which brings me to my point: The second half have everything to be AWESOME. I mean, assuming you guys are right, and Turan will win and they target Anatoray afterwards, this means all of our beloved characters WILL play a MAJOR role in it (Al, Tatiana, Dio, Vincent...). Hell, even Claus and Lavie may appear, since, as it was already pointed out, he holds the four Mysterias to unlock the Exile through Al. Well, at the same time, Fam will obviously have her own backstory once we find out who she really is/who are her true parents and all.

Anyway, another thing I hope happens in the second half: I want Fam to be COMPLETELY owned. I want her confidence crushed at her own game so that she can at least TRY to face the reality before her.

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by leokiko

Anyway, another thing I hope happens in the second half: I want Fam to be COMPLETELY owned. I want her confidence crushed at her own game so that she can at least TRY to face the reality before her.

You people are evil and sadistic, no wonder Key/Visual Arts keeps making those horribly depressing stories.

Fam's wide-eyed idealism may seem unrealistic, but it's one of the only things left which presents hope for a future that at this moment, isn't looking so bright even if Ades is defeated.
You got the Ades who'll probably still resent the Exiles, the Exiles who despise their Ades "oppressors;" you have known weapons of mass destruction in high orbit, even if they are all destroyed, their legacy is enough to warrant research and development (I doubt poor Alvis will ever find peace, as she's essentially a walking detonation charge and even if Exile is destroyed, a valuable research subject); shattered families and lives one bullet away from another war.

Any manner or even the perception of "injustice" can be enough to set someone on a pointless, but destructive path; a flaw with true freedom, is that occasionally that freedom involves denying another of theirs. Who ever is left over can try individually to hold everything together, but unless Fam's idealistic Utopian dream or Luscina's cold one-world order becomes reality; war will always be around the corner.

People seems to think the story will be solved by a stereotypical dramatic fight sequence, where the villain dies and everyone is happy. The day Fam's dream is completely crushed is when the last glimmers of light in the Last Exile universe become utterly extinguished. Reality is constantly harsh and cruel; without idealism, the suicide rate in real life would be significantly higher.

[encia]

Originally Posted by Panzerklein

Maybe it's just a border outpost. The main bases may have stronger force. And we don't see any Glacis battleship yet.

They may not have mastered large scale claudia units. Based on past history, Ades Federation usually attacks the nation's capital i.e. nation's "headshot".

[encia]

Originally Posted by Julio C

The fact that Anatoray's Exile is so different than the others still makes me wonder if it's the most advance one ever built or that it has the ability to command all other Exiles.

Next episode is just going to be a showdown between two Exiles and it's very likely that they'll just destroyed each other. I doubt that Turan's Exile is any better than Glacies Exile.

We still haven't seen Vasant's fleet yet, that's the fifth fleet right? I wonder if she'll break away from the Ades along with Sadri?

Anatoray's Exile = "Last Exile"...

[Graveyard Duck]

Originally Posted by Panzerklein

Maybe it's just a border outpost. The main bases may have stronger force. And we don't see any Glacis battleship yet.

I don't think the base in this episode being merely an outpost.

Spoiler for Fam Episode 13:

It has a fairly large complement of fighters and artillery. More importantly, it appears to be fortified with Exile technology, possibly even the Glacies Exile itself. It seems too important to be a mere outpost. The more likely scenario is that Glacies chose to put its strongest fortress near the most volatile border so it can respond quickly to threats. The bases Dyan refer to could be smaller outposts.

This scenario has a number of other advantages for the series:

Spoiler:

1. It would leave a fair number of bases for a Glacien resistance to form without giving Ades a significant national opponent other than Anatoray.

2. The council that command the base seem to be hard line isolationists with their rhetoric of forever making outsiders fear approaching Glacies. The others have not exhibited as hard line an attitude (though it's possible that this is because most others don't have the occasion to show their take). This makes Glacies joining an alliance against Ades more likely.

Now then, onto personal impressions.

I found that certain scenes in this episode really vindicated the then questionable decision to show Fam and co relaxing with Dyan in Glacies. Referring back for the moment:

Spoiler for Fam Episode 12:

Episode 12 did a great job showing the position of the winged priestesses in Glacien society. When the two women came to deliver supplies to Dyan's cabin, we see that the winged priestesses are well respected. This is reinforced in the hot springs scene[1], where we see women of all ages, from children to to middle aged women, recognizing Dyan and greeting her. In this scene, one woman's line stands out, "winged priestess, we're counting on you as always." Shortly after, Dyan refers to the sky as "a battlefield." She fights because she must, and she must because the people of Glacies place so much faith in the protection of the winged priestesses.

This sets up quite well for episode 13.

Spoiler for Fam Episode 13:

I think the voice actress and animators did a great job complementing the setup in episode 12. Dyan's expression when she sees the flak cannon barrage around her is an excellent example that stays in my mind:

The momentary panic that the voice actress manages to put into her voice during these shots conveys her raw fear without overdoing it. It is perfect for a girl who is trained as a soldier, who consider it her duty to defend her country, yet who is not a zealot that has little concern for her own life. This makes her farewell to Fam and co even more poignant, because her declaration that they will fight to the last vanship comes after she has overcome her fear. She's fighting to the last because the people of Glacies has great faith in the winged priestesses, not because she is an indoctrinated zealot.

I think Dyan is fast becoming my favorite Last Exile character, despite her short appearance. Sorry Dio, but there's only so much your badassery and comical behavior can do for you. Maybe if Claus returns as your foil, but even then it's not a sure call.

[MrTerrorist]

BTW, i noticed the fansubs called the Glacian Rocket fighters "The Winged Priestess" while the Animax subs called them "The Winged Witches".

So what's your opinion about this?

[Myssa Rei]

MrTerrorist: The former is likely more accurate; the latter just makes the World War-II reference to the Russian Night Witches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches) closer though.

[Graveyard Duck]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

BTW, i noticed the fansubs called the Glacian Rocket fighters "The Winged Priestess" while the Animax subs called them "The Winged Witches".

So what's your opinion about this?

The Japanese track says "miko," which I presume is the standard miko 巫女. This is where the fansub gets priestess from. The Nico sub also uses "priestess." Not sure what the Russian says.

If the Russian does use witch, one thing the Nico/Funi sub could have done was to subtitle what Dyan said and what Millia translated differently, but it might be inaccurate to show her as having imperfect grasp of Glacien, even if it would be realistic.

[MrTerrorist]

I think Winged Witches is correct since the line was spoken in Russian and not in Japanese. I think the Japanese subs use priestess because the idea of people seeing witches as their protectors is absurd. Another is "Winged Witches" sounds badass.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by leokiko

The first half was average at best. It did a lot right (animation, awesome battles, great soundtrack), but failed character-wise (Fam is stupid and I can point out a few posts here to prove my statement). Chapter 9 was the peak of it. Fam was the one that messed up and ignored Giselle's feelings, but in the end, GISELE was the one that had to apologize? That was uber ridiculous and the worst chapter in the series.

Anyway, another thing I hope happens in the second half: I want Fam to be COMPLETELY owned. I want her confidence crushed at her own game so that she can at least TRY to face the reality before her.

I got into the characters more so I agree on your things you said it got right, but thought they did better than you did on the characters (on Fam's side I really like the new characters like the main 3 and Giselle's parents and the couple of Silvius crew members we've seen a nice amount of and the old characters have been great and are totally delivering like Dio, Tatiana, Alister and even Vincent already had a couple of nice scenes in his recent arrival and Al just showed up so it's too early, most of the characters were quite successful on both sides for me even the enemy generals, Sadri's been awesome, Vasant's been very well done and I think they've done good with Orang, Sorush and Kayvan's quite likeable as the soldier and lovable stuff like letting Sara sit up on his shoulder and his oldschool attitude, which I expected to be one of the hardest things to get right and Luscinia and Alauda have done their job upping the ante and Guild mystery extremely well in the story and battles, and Millia and Giselle I've enjoyed seeing go through their various trials and Fam had some really strong character moments in 2-3 while they were establishing her, especially 2-3 and the several sides of her it showed, and several more times helping Millia start out and the thread of helping the Glacies pilot leading to her connecting with Dian, and her determination in the cockpit at various times throughout the first cour that made me like her more than you got from it), so I thought the first half was quite a bit better than that especially with the really strong dramatic story and pacing starting first 4 eps or so and then again in the quickly escalating 6-12 outside of the recap ep. I think all of the other characters had very good first halves but while I still like Fam quite a bit I do agree though with Vena that Fam is the one character that was the most static and that perhaps didn't get enough variety in the first half (which is ashame as I think it would have addressed some of these issues and episode 3 did such a good job showing her other sides and how she's definitely not stupid or anything like that, I guess they should have capitalized on that again with some more quiet moments for her alone to contemplate events in private sprinkled around somewhere in the second half of the first cour.).

I can understand the Giselle thing to some extent though as while I could see why they chose what they did, it's more subtle and different, I do think that it would have benefited Fam's character in the eyes of viewers as the lead and the perceived character growth in the first half for her to be fully humbled in this exchange rather than break down before it hit it's apex of drama because Fam realized Gisey thought that she felt like she'd be able to replace her, which caused Fam to scream it out that she never thought anything like that which made them both sad rather than Fam needing to console Giselle and the scream put Giselle on the path to realizing that ofcourse Fam would never replace her. However judging from you and Vena I do think that they perhaps indeed made a mistake here and should have went the traditional path as it would have gotten even more people on Fam's side if she'd had to apologize rather than Gisey figuring it out for herself midway through the episode, which probably would have likely made a big impact.

I wouldn't be against it, I think that did well for both Giselle and Millia's growth/demonstration of character, both Giselle and Millia have now both faced a crushing moment where they're completely downcast (Millia's big one ep 2/3 and perhaps again two eps ago with her sister, Giselle's gradual one 7-8/9, with big moments in each of the three).

Originally Posted by Vena

Spoiler:

Her character is exceedingly static when compared to her predecessor who went through the ringer on multiple occasions within just the start of the show, or when compared to the story itself. There is supposedly a serious war going on in the background which would lead to very chaotic emotions and while this was well portrayed through Claus and Lavia (maybe because they were indeed stuck in the middle of it) but Fam's gung-ho giddiness really feels like a total disconnect.

Compare further, how we got to see Claus' talents as a pilot vs. how we saw it for Fam: the former started from displaying some skill in flying through a warzone but most of his development/talent came from his competition/life and death affair with Dio, Alex, and the battle for Al. For Fam? She's established as good, little show of her being good against someone better or of comparable level, and her escapades always succeed because her opponents were/are all idiots.

I'm not against Fam as a character, I'm against how Fam has been used as a character. Her goals and ideals are in stark contrast to the reality of what's going on in the background and she (and her personality) honestly seem entirely out of touch with reality. She seems/feels unrealistic when compared to not only the rest of the cast in her show but the cast of the previous exile.

Spoiler:

The show has certainly picked up in the recent episodes but the triviality comes more in her involvement in the first ten or so episodes where aside from Millia, Fam was involved in a seemingly inconsequential plot of stealing ships and stealing because the plot demanded... for whatever reason. There's a lot of time wasted on her character that hasn't done much to actually help her (or anyone else's for that matter) character develop, and it could have been better used for setting the pieces for the plot, reintroducing the old characters, and sparking the war conflict.

This story as a whole has just been sloppy, from its handling of Fam, to its rocky first cour, to the dependence on idiot balls to keep the plot moving, and, worse of all, keeping Claus and Lavi barred from even being mentioned in the plot. The latter of which makes utterly no sense to me when Tatianna, Dio, and Al, have all appeared but we've yet to even hear word of mention of the former show's main characters. If they are dead then just tell us because, as it is, the fact that Claus is no where near Al makes utterly no sense if established characteristics from the first show are to be believed. I feel like its being kept a secret either: for some shock factor later on from Al (but then that brings question as to why/how Dio/Tatianna/Al are not exactly showing signs of having lost someone as important as Claus was for all three of them), or because Claus at this point would pull a Kira on Fam GSD style.

Last Exile the former had Claus as the main character but he failed regularly, was beaten regularly, evolved and had all the characteristics of a human, and his existence was always used as a compliment to other characters and a manner through which to develop others: Tatianna, Sophia, Alex, Al, Lavie, large chunks of the crew. Has Fam done this? For the most part through the entirety of this show, she's been entirely disconnected from the greater war in tone and theme, and her character has been a static, overly idealistic... thing, that has succeed because the plot said so.

Yeah I responded really really late lol.

Spoiler:

Glad to see yet another person love the first LE and it's awesome characters so much I agree with some of your points and some not as much so I'll just voice a few opinions.

I disagree that Fam's gung-ho optimism is as disconnected as it seems and agree with what LystAP also brought up about it, however I do agree that she's been the most static, which I agree to some extent is leaving her with a lot of potential but they're not using all of it, and instead they've been focusing on how she's pushing the others rather than growing herself or letting the other characters change her too, so while I like her quite a bit I do agree they've got some work to do if they want her to be as dynamic as the rest of the cast of new and old characters and Claus and show their influence on her and not just her acting on them.

While I think they did a much better job of showing why she's good than you since they've constantly pushed that she's been flying for quite some time as a pirate and therefore in battle zones and getting shot at (so she's already gone through Claus' trial-by-fire prior to the start of the show), I do agree that something that would aid her development would have been for some chases or dogfights with a real rival pilot that's as good or better than her so we could see that perseverance in a smaller skirmish within a fleet battle (like with those Ades scout vanships that chased them into Glacies, where she gritted her teeth as they took some damage, or something new or whatever Luscinia and Alauda have got up their sleeves), I think the second half would make some nice gains if she had to do some more closer combat like that like she did when Tatiana schooled her a bit (like she did Claus) and how Claus and Tatiana had to do on several occasions.

This one I don't really agree with. What do you mean for whatever reason? They weren't just stealing because the plot demanded it, they actually would have had a whole other fleet on the battlefield with a renewed Turan military fleet (and an even better one than before since Turan's ships were even worse than older model Ades ships). Fam's capturing of the ships can't be called inconsequential just because they ultimately lost the ships before they could use them to Liliana in the end, that's not fair if it only counts if they had succeeded and brought those ships onto the battlefield, also those events still didn't end up useless, the enemy actually got stronger than ever by stealing them back with even better troops aboard those ships than some of the "outer-rim aristocrats" using them as trophy ships now that they are Ades-Turan and Liliana's fleet. The story hasn't relied on idiotballs at all, in fact the only outright comedic enemy was that one captain they tricked twice, he's the only real idiot Fam's gone up against. The other generals certainly haven't been under-delivering IMO. Also Fam's failed several times such as her attempt on the Silvius, Luscinia activating the Exile when the 3 of them tried to rescue Liliana, the brutal pirates ambush and leading Sadri to the Silvius, she also hasn't outright personally won any big solo victories outside of the Ansher and the race in ep 6. Again though I do agree she could use a personal smaller conflict within a bigger fleet battle to drive home her development and contributions on a more personal level where it would be easier to demonstrate the challenges and lose->win arc of her in a smaller scale vanship-level battle. This is certainly one area where the Guild and their Starfish being a more open enemy helped develop Claus more than Fam's gotten the chance for so far since Ades is a battleship nation and hasn't had any vanships to dog-fight Fam. Hopefully the second half will remedy this as it would also give the Silvius and her vanship squadrons with Dio in command a real show too.

While I'd love to see them name dropped and can't wait to hopefully see them I'm not convinced they're barring them from bringing them up, I think this is just a natural occurrence of this being made 8 years later and trying to be made for both a new and old audience through the eyes of a new character and the other two leads who doesn't know them that they won't be brought up until it's time and since I wasn't a big Kira fan and disliked Destiny for it and changing to Kira and instead of developing Shinn leaving him a whiny brat (and Fam's far far better a lead than Shinn) I don't know if it would happen but I'd rather have them take the time to make Fam so she can actively work with Claus and not get "Destinied" as I like her and she has had some very good moments that they can still capitalize on when she goes to Kartoffel and they reveal the rest of her past or other events in the next couple of eps since things have clearly escalated and have Claus' eventual appearance add to her character by having them work together a few eps from now or something (I do hope that they don't wait until it's just a cameo though, a few eps from now would be ideal, especially if Dio and Al are heading to Anatoray and Ades sets it's sights on Anatoray next), there's also no reason Tatiana, Dio or Al would bring them up to Fam and the others as they wouldn't even know who they are yet and Dio and Tatiana's conversations have been about strategy with Ades, his pirate recon, etc and not really about Anatoray business, just like they didn't mention Vincent or Al until they met them. Also I'm not sure why all the "if they're dead thing" just because they haven't told Fam about them yet? You said it yourself, Dio and Al's reactions to how he described Al's background is likely clearly an indicator they are probably not dead. (I think Dio certainly likely unless it's been a while would have said they both lost someone close to them and not just that Al's had a tough life where she's lost people) Odds are there's no way characters of their prominence would die offscreen, and they're alive in the Hourglass manga, just because they haven't been name dropped yet. As to why he's not with Alvis, if MeggieMay's theory is right as you also thought was at least a good theory then experiencing Hourglass' attempts on Alvis and knowing Luscinia is after Exile keys having them separate but assigning the two best in Vincent and Dio to protect her sounds quite plausible at least.

Typed this up way too late at night...

[j4c06]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

BTW, i noticed the fansubs called the Glacian Rocket fighters "The Winged Priestess" while the Animax subs called them "The Winged Witches".

So what's your opinion about this?

In Russian, they say "winged goddess" all the way, and it feels like they refer to a guardian deity rather than to the pilots/aircraft.

[MeoTwister5]

On the subject of Fam's disconnect from the realities of war...

I would be lying that Fam is more often than not somewhat disconnected from reality. There have been many instances where Fam had to look at reality straight in the face, but still managed to smile. This doesn’t mean she’s unable to realize things happening around her. We can see that she knows and understands what’s happening everywhere else in the world, but I think that’s precisely the problem here: so far it’s happening everywhere else, and hasn’t hit her personally where it counts. The losses felt by the sky pirates in a previous episode did hurt Kartoffel, but no one she really knew died as a result, and in the middle of battle she found a way out of the ambush. She has yet to experience a no-win situation that resulted in losses to lives close to her, in events that would directly alter her life, if not literally put her in a real life or death situation. In other words, she has yet to experience the horrors of war on a personal level. When she does, perhaps her overall attitude might only shift a little, but her approach will change a lot.

Anyway...

Scorched Earth

[Marked1]

Originally Posted by j4c06

In Russian, they say "winged goddess" all the way, and it feels like they refer to a guardian deity rather than to the pilots/aircraft.

They refer Exile as "winged goddess", pilots/vanships refered as "winged priestess".

[j4c06]

Originally Posted by Marked1

They refer Exile as "winged goddess", pilots/vanships refered as "winged priestess".

Not in Russian, no.
"Priestess" in Russian would be "zhritza", whereas they only use "boginya" (=goddess).

[Marked1]

Originally Posted by j4c06

Not in Russian, no.
"Priestess" in Russian would be "zhritza", whereas they only use "boginya" (=goddess).

Ep. 13 second "Russian" phrase "Krylatie zhritci razobiut avangard Federacii" cleary refering to pilots/vanships. Just check it.