AnimeSuki Forums

hamstar · 2009-05-02, 21:03

i feel like mr outside being introduced as some middle aged japanese business man isnt going to be shocking enough for the audience. It's going to be funny if Akira himself is Mr Outside.

Guardian Enzo · 2009-05-02, 22:31

Not much Saki the last two eps, was there?

izmosmolnar · 2009-05-03, 00:21

The other thing I don't really understand is, how can we be sure if Akira was speaking with Mr. Outosideo?
If I remember hearing it correctly, he indeed changed voices with the brain surgeon guy. But than how come the caller's ID is selecao number5? And of course the Doctor was standing behind him with the telephone in his hands.

Of course Outosideo was nowhere in sight, and since we didn't heard him speaking from nearby it's fairly safe to assume he isn't around, but then was Dr. Hiura redirecting the call through his telephone somehow? For what reason? If Outside isn't lying, it's obvious he has to know Akira's number himself, there's no reason to speak through the Doctor's caller ID.
Additionally how was the Doctor able to reach Outside? Does he has his number or what? I doubt it really. It's quite obvious Outside must be monitoring all of them somehow, but did he conveniently called the doctor by luck to chat (?), without the Doctor's interference, at the best time and he redirected his call to Akira? (that's like a miracle to happen).
Not to mention, if the Doctor is able to speak with Outside everytime he wants, why didn't he inquired what kind of direction he has to establish in order to win, and he could have avoided the death by that. Brain Surgeons used to be intelligents as far as I know

.

Raiga · 2009-05-03, 00:28

Akira -wasn't- talking with Mr. Outside. Hiura was just giving him a reenactment of what it was like when he got his phone.

izmosmolnar · 2009-05-03, 00:44

That didn't crossed my mind yet.
Than how come we don't hear him speaking from nearby? He was standing about 5 meter behind him, I dunno much about you guys, but if I speak with someone else on the phone who is standing few meters away from me I can hear his/her voice.
And how was he able to change his voice so much? Did he played a recording? If yes how did he/they anticipated what Akira is going to say? There's a significant pause when he asks "So I'm not the Supporter?" "I'm the one who knows...". Plus he says quite a huge sentence by the end "What?! This is like being in the loser's bracket", while Outside remain silent completely. I doubt it's a recording. Or if it is a recording, the brainsurgeon must be playing and stopping it behind him, and he kinda guessed what Akira going to say.
Not to mention how was the brain surgeon guy able to record the call after in a similar situation. The phone starts ringing immediately, there's simply no time to figure out how to record a call, plus he says he was drunk at the time anyway.

Raiga · 2009-05-03, 01:02

Uh, that was just Hiura talking, reciting what he remembered Mr. Outside saying... and I guess the fact that we didn't get the double-voice effect of someone talking into a phone in the same room... just one of those details, I suppose. Hiura might have quietly walked in later in the conversation, too, considering Akira didn't see him (nor did we the audience, IIRC, so that's prolly what happened).

Hiura probably remembered all the rules just because... they're kinda memorable, considering. If someone handed me a phone with 100 million USD on it and said, "Save the world under these conditions: etc." I think I'd remember what they said pretty well. :P

izmosmolnar · 2009-05-03, 01:19

Well I don't know what to think really. My initial belief was that he indeed spoke with Outosideo and the Doc only forwarded the call through his phone somehow, even though the former surely has to know Akira's number himself.
I was led to believe it because, Outside's voice was a bit different than the doctor's, and how we didn't heard the Doc speaking in the same room, plus if I think about it it's unreasonable to assume the Doctor managed to record the first call explaining the rules. I reckon the Doc doesn't have enough to time to quickly run/sprint in (?) between the time we hear "I eagerly pray that you continue being a messiah" and the time Akira addresses him after the call ended. (and there's simply no real reason to confuse us viewers with that, anyway).
Of course that has many flaws as I mentioned few posts above (I seriosly doubt he can contact Outosideo in the first place), but playing a recording seems a bit unbelievable too. It might be just me though.

By the way, I'm quite certain there must be some reason why they showed us the Doctor's family picture. On another note, am I the only one who thinks, they look the same? (except the hairstyle of course)

JediNight · 2009-05-03, 03:04

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. It was dramatic license to show us how you receive the phones. You're thinking too much. Or do you think Akira really had a bunch of Johnny-zombies mobbing him too? ;p

The real question you should ask is, is it Mr. Outside or The Supporter that erased Akira's memory in Ep1 with the intention of him being arrested/killed? And is he still semi-after Akira, or willing to lay off killing him now that he's back in Japan and not doing something crazy that probably is outside the bounds of how he wants the game to be played.

Haak · 2009-05-03, 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by feRfe

[
oh damn because i dont pay attention to american pop i didnt even realize but the op is actually not engrish and is from oasis

It's not American pop.

velvet · 2009-05-03, 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

The little robot car that carried the Selecao phone reminded me of those robots (forgot what they're called) in GITS. It's hard not to see Production IG's signature all over this series.

I have no idea about those Johnnys creeps that Akira seems to be familiar with in his WTF dream-like vision.

Tachikoma?

Akira freaking out with his johnies, remind me a lot of morita from H&C...

Haak · 2009-05-03, 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by izmosmolnar

Well I don't know what to think really. My initial belief was that he indeed spoke with Outosideo and the Doc only forwarded the call through his phone somehow, even though the former surely has to know Akira's number himself.
I was led to believe it because, Outside's voice was a bit different than the doctor's, and how we didn't heard the Doc speaking in the same room, plus if I think about it it's unreasonable to assume the Doctor managed to record the first call explaining the rules. I reckon the Doc doesn't have enough to time to quickly run/sprint in (?) between the time we hear "I eagerly pray that you continue being a messiah" and the time Akira addresses him after the call ended. (and there's simply no real reason to confuse us viewers with that, anyway).

Oh honestly. I immediately assumed it was the doc that was speaking through the phone. (atleast, after they had showed he was there). I didn't notice a change of voice, and the Doc probably didn't record the rules but I'm guessing it would've been a pretty memorable experience at the time. As for not hearing the Doc speak in the same room, well they can't exactly help that that. Akira knew he was there even without looking.

No real reason to confuse us viewers? You're the only one that's confused.

Kaioshin Sama · 2009-05-03, 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

The big question is Save the country from what?

Stagnation probably. Though the goal that they are supposed to achieve in "saving" the entire country by spending lots of money seems unachievable. It's more likely they've all been set up to die.

As for that dream sequence at the beginning, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it was the manifestation of feelings of guilt that Akira feels at the thought that he might have been responsible for the death of all of those NEET's.

And so the whole supporter thing is fully explained this episode and throws a neat twist into the game, though by the end it's uncertain whether Akira is really the supporter or not.

Spoiler for Crazy late series plot twist theory:

izmosmolnar · 2009-05-03, 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lolcat3

Oh honestly. I immediately assumed it was the doc that was speaking through the phone. (atleast, after they had showed he was there). I didn't notice a change of voice, and the Doc probably didn't record the rules but I'm guessing it would've been a pretty memorable experience at the time. As for not hearing the Doc speak in the same room, well they can't exactly help that that. Akira knew he was there even without looking.

No real reason to confuse us viewers? You're the only one that's confused.

Of course I'm confused about it. I would have expected some kinda echo or some non-static voice parallel to the telephone voice, which would imply he did more than just standing in the background (that's why I initially dismissed the possibility Akira would just "play along" and deliberately choose to ignore his presence).
(I apologize though, It's my nature to overanalyze potential flaws).

Haak · 2009-05-03, 05:55

They probably wanted us to have a feel of what it was really like. If there was some kind of echo then it would've ruined the moment somewhat, IMO.

There's no need to apolagize though, I'm not being serious here.

Jan-Poo · 2009-05-03, 07:07

Izmosmolnar, it's really very simple ^^;

First: the voice is Hiura's there's no doubt about that. I mean the voice actor is the same, he just restrain himself from his usual affable way of talk and becomes a little more cold to impersonate the outsider but that's all.

Second: he's not in the room from the beginning. If you rewatch the scene you'll notice there's a part when the camera makes a full circle around Akira, that of course means you can see the whole room and Hiura isn't there. Since he is using a mobile phone he can talk and walk at the same time. You can safely assume that when he neared the end of the charade he entered the room. For theatrical reasons the noises he made while entering weren't made audible to us, but you can tell Akira noticed because he knew Hiura's exact position.

third: Hiura himself says he recreated the whole scene.

I don't think it's a flaw or anything, if they really wanted us to hear anything and only what the main character hears then there wouldn't be any BGM.

Quote:

By the way, I'm quite certain there must be some reason why they showed us the Doctor's family picture. On another note, am I the only one who thinks, they look the same? (except the hairstyle of course)

It's hard to tell. If you remove the hairstyle a lot of characters look similar. It could be just a problem with the character designer that can't make substantial differentiations, see the Akira=Morita meme. The photo could have been shown only to create an even more dramatic effect by telling us that Hiura had a family that will miss him.

Raiga · 2009-05-03, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

It's hard to tell. If you remove the hairstyle a lot of characters look similar. It could be just a problem with the character designer that can't make substantial differentiations, see the Akira=Morita meme. The photo could have been shown only to create an even more dramatic effect by telling us that Hiura had a family that will miss him.

i.e. instant death flag. :P

I also thought they looked similar, though. Who knows?

Lostdreams · 2009-05-03, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Stagnation probably. Though the goal that they are supposed to achieve in "saving" the entire country by spending lots of money seems unachievable. It's more likely they've all been set up to die.

As for that dream sequence at the beginning, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it was the manifestation of feelings of guilt that Akira feels at the thought that he might have been responsible for the death of all of those NEET's.

And so the whole supporter thing is fully explained this episode and throws a neat twist into the game, though by the end it's uncertain whether Akira is really the supporter or not.

Spoiler for Crazy late series plot twist theory:

Spoiler for Crazier late series plot twist theory:

Jan-Poo · 2009-05-03, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lostdreams

Spoiler for Crazier late series plot twist theory:

I think someone already said it but this crazy theory really reminds me Ergo Proxy °°; I hope it's not going to be true else the two shows would be very similar.

Full Metal Jackass · 2009-05-03, 13:28

Hmm I just got in to the series yesterday but,

Spoiler for Speculation and questions:

and before you all go "ep 1 discussion" or what ever i feel these questions are important to what is going on now.

izmosmolnar · 2009-05-03, 14:31

Believe it or not, we can only guess the answers at this point. There are still no firm proofs to answer your questions with confidence.
Of course there are theories out there. Just read back here for example, everyone still debates the same questions you have (But if you read back, that would spoil the fun a bit, so I'd recommend watching it to the newest episode).

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2009-05-02, 21:03	Link #61
hamstar just passing by Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Exia	i feel like mr outside being introduced as some middle aged japanese business man isnt going to be shocking enough for the audience. It's going to be funny if Akira himself is Mr Outside. __________________

2009-05-03, 00:28	Link #64
Raiga tl;dr Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 32	Akira -wasn't- talking with Mr. Outside. Hiura was just giving him a reenactment of what it was like when he got his phone. __________________

2009-05-03, 01:02	Link #66
Raiga tl;dr Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 32	Uh, that was just Hiura talking, reciting what he remembered Mr. Outside saying... and I guess the fact that we didn't get the double-voice effect of someone talking into a phone in the same room... just one of those details, I suppose. Hiura might have quietly walked in later in the conversation, too, considering Akira didn't see him (nor did we the audience, IIRC, so that's prolly what happened). Hiura probably remembered all the rules just because... they're kinda memorable, considering. If someone handed me a phone with 100 million USD on it and said, "Save the world under these conditions: etc." I think I'd remember what they said pretty well. :P __________________

2009-05-03, 13:28	Link #79
Full Metal Jackass Most Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Texas Age: 39	Hmm I just got in to the series yesterday but, Spoiler for Speculation and questions: 1. who is this guy really? I mean he is just going by a name and identity of one of 4 or 5 passports he had. 2. Why did he wipe his memory? I think he put himself in to a bad situation and had his memory wiped trusting on his memoryless self to be able to handle it. 3. who is the guy for the first ep, and why was he following Kira? Easy answer would be he is the supporter and was after Kira but stopped when he thought Kira was about to get arrested. but to me that doesn't seem to fit the way the supporter would work. 4. What the hell was he doing naked with a gun in front of the white house, plus he sure looked like he was about to start shooting and was a bit surprised to have his memory erased. and before you all go "ep 1 discussion" or what ever i feel these questions are important to what is going on now.

2009-05-03, 00:21	Link #63
izmosmolnar At the end of this world Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hungary, Europe Age: 39	The other thing I don't really understand is, how can we be sure if Akira was speaking with Mr. Outosideo? If I remember hearing it correctly, he indeed changed voices with the brain surgeon guy. But than how come the caller's ID is selecao number5? And of course the Doctor was standing behind him with the telephone in his hands. Of course Outosideo was nowhere in sight, and since we didn't heard him speaking from nearby it's fairly safe to assume he isn't around, but then was Dr. Hiura redirecting the call through his telephone somehow? For what reason? If Outside isn't lying, it's obvious he has to know Akira's number himself, there's no reason to speak through the Doctor's caller ID. Additionally how was the Doctor able to reach Outside? Does he has his number or what? I doubt it really. It's quite obvious Outside must be monitoring all of them somehow, but did he conveniently called the doctor by luck to chat (?), without the Doctor's interference, at the best time and he redirected his call to Akira? (that's like a miracle to happen). Not to mention, if the Doctor is able to speak with Outside everytime he wants, why didn't he inquired what kind of direction he has to establish in order to win, and he could have avoided the death by that. Brain Surgeons used to be intelligents as far as I know .

2009-05-03, 00:44	Link #65
izmosmolnar At the end of this world Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hungary, Europe Age: 39	That didn't crossed my mind yet. Than how come we don't hear him speaking from nearby? He was standing about 5 meter behind him, I dunno much about you guys, but if I speak with someone else on the phone who is standing few meters away from me I can hear his/her voice. And how was he able to change his voice so much? Did he played a recording? If yes how did he/they anticipated what Akira is going to say? There's a significant pause when he asks "So I'm not the Supporter?" "I'm the one who knows...". Plus he says quite a huge sentence by the end "What?! This is like being in the loser's bracket", while Outside remain silent completely. I doubt it's a recording. Or if it is a recording, the brainsurgeon must be playing and stopping it behind him, and he kinda guessed what Akira going to say. Not to mention how was the brain surgeon guy able to record the call after in a similar situation. The phone starts ringing immediately, there's simply no time to figure out how to record a call, plus he says he was drunk at the time anyway.

2009-05-03, 01:19	Link #67
izmosmolnar At the end of this world Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hungary, Europe Age: 39	Well I don't know what to think really. My initial belief was that he indeed spoke with Outosideo and the Doc only forwarded the call through his phone somehow, even though the former surely has to know Akira's number himself. I was led to believe it because, Outside's voice was a bit different than the doctor's, and how we didn't heard the Doc speaking in the same room, plus if I think about it it's unreasonable to assume the Doctor managed to record the first call explaining the rules. I reckon the Doc doesn't have enough to time to quickly run/sprint in (?) between the time we hear "I eagerly pray that you continue being a messiah" and the time Akira addresses him after the call ended. (and there's simply no real reason to confuse us viewers with that, anyway). Of course that has many flaws as I mentioned few posts above (I seriosly doubt he can contact Outosideo in the first place), but playing a recording seems a bit unbelievable too. It might be just me though. By the way, I'm quite certain there must be some reason why they showed us the Doctor's family picture. On another note, am I the only one who thinks, they look the same? (except the hairstyle of course)

2009-05-03, 03:04	Link #68
JediNight キズランダム Join Date: Apr 2003	The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. It was dramatic license to show us how you receive the phones. You're thinking too much. Or do you think Akira really had a bunch of Johnny-zombies mobbing him too? ;p The real question you should ask is, is it Mr. Outside or The Supporter that erased Akira's memory in Ep1 with the intention of him being arrested/killed? And is he still semi-after Akira, or willing to lay off killing him now that he's back in Japan and not doing something crazy that probably is outside the bounds of how he wants the game to be played.

2009-05-03, 05:55	Link #74
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	They probably wanted us to have a feel of what it was really like. If there was some kind of echo then it would've ruined the moment somewhat, IMO. There's no need to apolagize though, I'm not being serious here.

2009-05-03, 14:31	Link #80
izmosmolnar At the end of this world Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hungary, Europe Age: 39	Believe it or not, we can only guess the answers at this point. There are still no firm proofs to answer your questions with confidence. Of course there are theories out there. Just read back here for example, everyone still debates the same questions you have (But if you read back, that would spoil the fun a bit, so I'd recommend watching it to the newest episode).