2013-03-14, 02:23 | Link #101 | ||||||
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||||||
2013-03-14, 02:41 | Link #102 | ||||
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
|
Quote:
Quote:
Never underestimate boredom. Quote:
Quote:
Anyway I just can't fathom how you reached the conclusion that people are laughing at you because you made theories that turned out to be somewhat correct in the best of case. |
||||
2013-03-14, 09:42 | Link #103 | ||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Quote:
Quote:
Realistically, Kishimoto might have had a basic idea for Team 7. As a General team (which is also a stupid idea to begin with), Naruto could have been Ninjutsu, Sasuke Taijutsu and Sakura Genjutsu. Sadly, even this basic idea (which was at least brought up as a possibility during the first training session with Kakashi) was never dealt with. Truthfully, if Sakura wasn't placed on the team, I think they would have been more cohesive. Don't get me wrong, I like Sakura, and honestly none of the other known female genin would have worked, but someone like Shikimaru or Shino would have been a great addition to Team 7, able to balance out the personalities while helping to sustain overall levels of performance. That being said, there is something to the basic logic as to why Kakashi got Sasuke. And Naruto is debatable (ideally Yamato should have always been training Naruto), but it is at least somewhat understandable. Sadly, he had no reason to even try to teach Sakura (and he never did). Team 7 was a plot contrived overly dramatic team literally created to fail. Their break-up was obvious from the start and was even readily apparent by the characters very placement in the Team. edit: To put it in perspective, every single "Team 7" (the best with the worst) that we know of has ended in abject failure for one reason or another (there are dizzying highs, but the lows are abysmal). If this always happens, doesn't that mean maybe you should change something? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That being said, part of the development of a genin is to learn and study with their team. Sadly, Kakashi had little experience, or simply couldn't properly teach how to work as an efficient team. Quote:
Again, this was Kishimoto's fault for not properly explaining team placements and possibly not actually understanding what a teams purpose is... Last edited by james0246; 2013-03-14 at 11:31. |
||||||
2013-03-14, 09:48 | Link #104 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
|
|
2013-03-14, 10:04 | Link #105 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Genetics? Well, lets talk to Ms. Hinata, the heir of the current most powerful clan in Konoha, and ridiculously weaker than her other known relatives not to mention most other ninjas. Genetics are not everything. Just look at Itama or all the dead Uchiha, or all the dead Senju, Uzumaki, the countless bloodline users killed in Mist, etc. Just because you are predisposed to potential greatness doesn't mean you will ever live up to that potential (Obito falls in to this chategory somewhat; he became great but only through outside factors). Everything pre-Kage Bushin showed Naruto having a simple and average existence. That's not to say the potential wasn't there, it just wasn't shown in any observable way (which is a long line of peoples faults, all the way from Naruto needlessly acting like an idiot to get attention, to the villagers needlessly condemning him, up to Sarutobi never teaching him correctly or even making an effort to make sure he was taught correctly).
|
2013-03-14, 12:20 | Link #106 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
potential: 1: possible, as opposed to actual. 2: capable of being or becoming |
||
2013-03-14, 12:49 | Link #107 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
You've misunderstood my sentence and the argument (it's my fault, it was badly worded). Just because Naruto has seemingly genetic superiority and the Kyuubi doesn't mean anything if he was never shown to be worth anything. Pre-Kage Bushin Naruto had no known observable potential. Many may have hoped he had potential due to birth or status (these are quantifiable reasons to assume Naruto might be worth something - potential), but based on observable data there was no reason to assume that Naruto actually was capable of anything (he seemed to fail at everything, so why would anyone assume otherwise?). Genetics, etc are important factors, they're just not the be-all end-all (though I do agree with the implicit supposition that most elite are already connected to greatness through genetics).
|
2013-03-14, 13:15 | Link #108 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
|
|
2013-03-14, 13:19 | Link #109 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
|
Quote:
I can't agree with that, she became a very good ninja by now. Her main problem was that she was shy and didn't have self conficence, but that doesn't mean she was some talentless girl. It just means that her father was an idiot who couldn't see any value in Hinata and gave up on her. Sure she doesn't have as much talent as Neji or her younger sister, but she's good and has some pretty impressive special moves of her clan. If she was not a Hyuuga then she would be much weaker, she would need a lot more talent (like Minato and others who didn't have a special clan or genetics) to stand against those who have special clan secret jutsu (Shikamaru and his team) or even special genetic abilities (Hyuuga, Uchiha, Kaguya, ....). But since Hinata has a genetic ability and also special clan jutsu we can assume that even with her moderate ninja talent she's stronger than most of the ninja that ever existed (for example the 60-70 thousand alliance ninja who are already dead). Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2013-03-14 at 13:46. |
|
2013-03-14, 13:26 | Link #110 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2013-03-14, 14:49 | Link #111 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
i look at things based on the overall story, or if you want to look at it as the latest 90% or so of the story then that's fine. in the overall story, students are not given teachers based on lowest and highest grades. it is no coincidence that kakashi, minato's best pupil, was given minato's son as a student. nor is it a coincidence that he was given sasuke who he could help with the sharingan regardless of whether sasuke was top of the class or not. that old way of thinking makes no sense given the story the way it is portrayed now. |
|
2013-03-14, 15:06 | Link #112 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Quote:
|
|
2013-03-14, 15:38 | Link #113 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2013-03-14, 18:29 | Link #114 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
|
|
2013-03-14, 22:39 | Link #117 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Quote:
To simplify, Naruto had hidden potential that no one could assume existed simply because he was never observed to do anything amazing. Then he did something amazing. (btw, I don't think I ever said outclassed.) |
|
2013-03-14, 23:03 | Link #118 | |
Inactive Member
|
Quote:
|
|
2013-03-15, 11:08 | Link #119 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
|
Quote:
You are too harsh with Kakashi here What's the measure of failure? Naruto and Sasuke will become the strongest ninja of their time and maybe even strongest ever by the end of the manga, so i guess that's not the measure If we look at other teachers they often failed much more than Kakashi. Minato's failed to protect his team, Obito became a crazy evil boss who caused the death of a huge amount of people including his own teacher, the medical ninja of the team died by the hands of her own team, the only survivor didn't care too much about becoming a top ninja any more and instead was escaping into the world of Jiaray's books and also didn't accept to teach genin teams for a long time. In the Kakashi gaiden his team was dysfunctional, they couldn't agree on anything, also Kakashi was not listening to Minato and went to lose his eye which then caused Obito's death and everything else The 3rd hokage's team also fell apart and one became an enemy, the other was gambling and drinking around the world, the 3rd didn't accept the hokage position despite having mastered sage mode. The 2nd hokage's team went on to become the evil elders of the village who among other things caused the massacre of the Uchiha clan, the madness of Nagato/Pain and the creation of people like Kabuto or Sai. Orochimaru was hated by all his subordinates, except some who were made into mindless servants (sound 5, etc.) that are like suicide bombers. Jiraiya left his team without teaching them how the world works so they were tricked by evil ninja leaders. All of them are dead except Naruto, but he could also be dead by now because Jiraiya never dealt with Danzou, nor did he tell to Naruto and his other apprentices that Danzou is dangerous. Jiraiya was training Naruto for 3 years but it was almost useless since he had no chance against Sasuke or Itachi when he returned from his training with Jiraiya. In contrast with that Kakashi did teach Naruto to use his wind element in just a few days, the frogs did teach him sage mode in a few weeks and Bee did teach him in a few days what Jiraiya couldn't in 3 years. The only decent teacher in the manga is Naruto considering that Konohamaru is already quite strong and has adopted Naruto's version of the will of fire Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2013-03-15 at 11:42. |
|
2013-03-15, 12:09 | Link #120 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
^kakashi also taught sasuke how to use chidori very quickly. i think he was a great teacher. it seems to be a recurring theme that a couple ninja from every generation will defect and become twisted in some way. it's more a reflection of the ninja system, then it is any particular teacher
i think that was all part of the bell test. the students were meant to fail. it was a test of teamwork. just the fact that they did fail and still passed, proves that kakashi was meant to be their teacher after all |
|
|