[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by OBrasilo

I just stumbled upon this YouTube video, which seems to have even more screen-shots of Episode 5. Could someone (maybe chronotrig?) translate them to English, so that we can see, if they contain any more clues on what goes on there?

Right here.

[The Visored]

Originally Posted by Rena Ryuuguu

Spoiler for theory details includes spoiler from EP 1- 5:

I always try to think at both sites, human and magic. and I think there is a parallel world. and the point of them is Rokkenjima, that way both exists. I also think that Natsuhi is the culprit or has something to do with the crime in EP 1 have many reasons why I think that.

*Natsuhi - killed that 6 at the first twilight in EP 1

now, why do I think that? if you know the new OP from EP 5 then you should know that scene with Natsuhi .
that looks like from Natsuhi's view, everyone is mocking her. and the faces of her relates are hidden with the dark.
then the new girl Asumu or Rikatrice? appears saying "you are the culprit" ( but this scene can mean more or just nothing we won't know it before the game is out )

*Natsuhi killed that 6 , she used the legend of the hidden gold and Beatrice as reason to make it look like all is the golden Witch Beatrice's doing.
she knew about the hidden gold that Krauss was hiding already. that's why she also got an hate toward her husband. then in the night of the first twilight, she rushed inside the conservation between the others, then a fight occurred and Natsuhi probably lost control and killed them. afterward she was probably in kinda trance, and decided completely to make it look like Beatrice's doing. maybe Gohda or even Krauss rushed in after she killed them and so Krauss or Gohda helped or was ( forced? ) to carry the corpses to the storehouse on the way to there Natsuhi was seen by Shannon which was on the way to the guest house? and so Natsuhi who was still ( in demon state ) killed Shannon too, which would explain only her half face smashed. Gohda saw it too and lost control and wanted to tell the truth and escape ( we know Gohda and his panic especial in EP 2) Natsuhi killed Gohda too so she killed Shannon and Gohda instead of her actually next planed Targets "Eva and Hideyoshi!!!!"
let's just say Natsuhi wasn't the usual but like a as to say in in Hideyoshi's words "Demon" then I refer this site to the stakes of purgatory, which stands for sins..
that way you even could explain how the 7stakes from the magic site could kill them . if Natsuhi used all that sins which the stakes symbolize,. then you could even say in red

"The First six, Rosa, Krauss, Shannon, Gohda , Rudolph and Kirie were killed by the Seven Stakes at the first Twilight!"

so let's think Natsuhi used all sins to kill them all. afterward she used her blood smeared hands to make it look like someone was trying to get inside her room. that's how the blood came to her door.. then she washed her hands and changed clothes and stuff and went back to sleep.

*next day she acted or might didn't even remember anything. and so she really was shocked about the blood. we all know how fast Natsuhi get's in Rage

Spoiler for EP 4:

also for Kinzo. Kinzo knew about what happened too, but we all know the real Kinzo is death from the start , so this man Gold Smith. knew that Natsuhi killed them , and so he praised Natsuhi. because she was able to finish the rest of the for "false Kinzo" "Ushiromiya Family"

Anti-fantasy perspective:
In Ep.1 I think that the Kinzo we see was just a "flashback" from Natsuhi not necessarily another Kinzo,.
Natsuhi was the responsible for the first and second twilight, Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa were accomplices.
Kanon realized that when they tried to kill him, later Kanon kills Genji, Nanjo, Kumasawa and Natsuhi with a gun taking revenge for Shannon's death.

Regarding the Kinzo in Ep.4: The culprit could just throw out Kinzo body during the meeting while shooting everybody.

PD. Also i think that in Ep.5 we will see more details regarding Battler and his relation with Kinzo.

[k//eternal]

If it was a flashback, Natsuhi wouldn't insist that she had seen Kinzo at that time.

[Proto]

Also, remember that it's easy to say 'she killed them all 6!', but remember we are talking about 6 vs 1, many of whichh were more physically able than Natsuhi herself. [size=1]So, is there a conspiracy?. Hmm....?


Though it would be funny to imagine someone running from a grinning natsuhi with a chainsaw, dripping blood, reaching the room and trying desperately to open to take refugee or something.

[Lady_Bernkastel]

Well, I checked some things/hints in the op, and confirmed the identity of one shadowed figure on 1:10, (but no the one in the middle [wish I'd figure out about that one...lol], but the one on the left)

Spoiler for Shadowed figure:

Fits, that one at least is the new girl. So that other shadow behind her is probably her creation somehow. Still trying to figure what it could be...

Wow, they focus on Natsuhi pretty much in this op (They did the same in the 1st op, but well that's because she was one of the last survivors...). She really is suspicious.

Oh, and the theory someone brought out here

Spoiler for Theory:

about her smashing the faces of the adults because they always laughed at her and looked down on her, since she didn't have the One-winged eagle

seems really logical! Great theory.

[blaze0041]

Originally Posted by Freelii

I got tired of her too, especially her whole "Yaaay, I have magic! And magical friends!" Since I'm extremely anti-fantasy (I think that's the right one), they can't possibly exist and are only figments of her imagination. I can't figure out how she could possibly be around in the meta-world, considering what happened to her at the end of Episode 4.

I won't strike out the possibility of another 1998 'epilogue world' though. The way she acted in Episode 4 was highly relevant to the outcome of Episode 3, so I wonder if there are Ange's relevant to the outcomes of the other games?

Spoiler for Episode 4: About Ange...:

She did deny her 'magical friends' at a few points, right? Least she got to see her 'onii-san' again- you would probably take a pessimistic life view too if you lost everything that you loved, and in very suspicious circumstances too...

*Preparing self for more mindrape...*
But no matter how much preparation you put into it, the end result will never fail to shock...

[Matrim]

I am too scared of spoilers, even from OPs and such to read carefully the whole thread so I will just ask and forgive me if it's already answered few pages back - is it known which question arc will ep.5 "answer" to?

[Klashikari]

There is no confirmation, but judging from the OP, it is very likely it will be the "answer" to Episode 1, or a retelling a la Onikakushi-Tsumihoroboshi.

[blaze0041]

Originally Posted by Matrim

I am too scared of spoilers, even from OPs and such to read carefully the whole thread so I will just ask and forgive me if it's already answered few pages back - is it known which question arc will ep.5 "answer" to?

Unfortunately not...
But all the better for the shock factor that Ryukishi-sama loves...

[Lady_Bernkastel]

Found one more detail in the op~ Well...don't know if it says a lot...but it's something.

Spoiler for Op scene:

The new character is in Kinzo's study room in this scene....


This scene is in his room for sure, and here you can see that these soldiers statues can be in his room:

[The Visored]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

If it was a flashback, Natsuhi wouldn't insist that she had seen Kinzo at that time.

Maybe Kinzo was already dead and she lied to make everyone thinks that he was alive or she speak alone imagining that Kinzo was alive in some kind of mental disorder.

Originally Posted by Proto

Also, remember that it's easy to say 'she killed them all 6!', but remember we are talking about 6 vs 1, many of whichh were more physically able than Natsuhi herself. [size=1]So, is there a conspiracy?. Hmm....?
Though it would be funny to imagine someone running from a grinning natsuhi with a chainsaw, dripping blood, reaching the room and trying desperately to open to take refugee or something.

Someone in RAGE with a gun could easily kills 6 people.
We could add Kanon as a killer too but i really doubt Kanon could kill Shannon.
Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo are out for the red truth.

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by The Visored

Maybe Kinzo was already dead and she lied to make everyone thinks that he was alive or she speak alone imagining that Kinzo was alive in some kind of mental disorder.

"Maybe" Kinzo was already dead? Of course he was already dead. The obvious explanations are that either she lied, the Kinzo was a fake, or that it was just in her head.

[Rena Ryuuguu]

Originally Posted by The Visored

Anti-fantasy perspective:
In Ep.1 I think that the Kinzo we see was just a "flashback" from Natsuhi not necessarily another Kinzo,.
Natsuhi was the responsible for the first and second twilight, Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa were accomplices.
Kanon realized that when they tried to kill him, later Kanon kills Genji, Nanjo, Kumasawa and Natsuhi with a gun taking revenge for Shannon's death.

Regarding the Kinzo in Ep.4: The culprit could just throw out Kinzo body during the meeting while shooting everybody.

PD. Also i think that in Ep.5 we will see more details regarding Battler and his relation with Kinzo.

I think your Theory is pretty good, only thing I rather doubt would be that Kanon kills Genji. because he has a lot respect for Genji. but if we turn the ches sboard over
then maybe it's like you said, it would be possible if kanon releases that Gohda, Kumawasa,Natsuhi and even Nanjo are accomplices. then he probably would kill Genji even though his respect toward him..because he surely couldn't forgive Kumawasa and Genji which knew about everything. he just would get revenge.
plus after all we don't know if Genji also returns the respect which he get's from Shannon and Kanon. though it seems so. but if this is true, then I doubt that Kanon knew about Natsuhi from the begin or knowing she being the culprit otherwise he could have killed her right after Shannon was killed.

also the Kinzo Part makes sense, I think your Theory about Kinzo there is very good

Originally Posted by k//eternal

If it was a flashback, Natsuhi wouldn't insist that she had seen Kinzo at that time.

why not? just think that Natsuhi was exactly trying to believe that too, if she insists she had seen Kinzo to that time everyone would believe she can't be the culprit because the culprit wouldn't insist that he/she had seen kinzo at the Study

edit- comparing to the Theory with the servants being accomplices.. I thought about something. if they would be accomplices - then why would Kanon ask Genji about Beatrice-sama having returned??! but ok maybe the servants use "Beatrice as secret codex a secret Language based on Beatrice !!! sugoi ne " German. english, japanese, and Beatriceish"

:rofl: gomen I'm sleepy and probably talk stupid things, i should get some rest

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by Lady_Bernkastel

Found one more detail in the op~ Well...don't know if it says a lot...but it's something.

Spoiler for Op scene:

The new character is in Kinzo's study room in this scene....


This scene is in his room for sure, and here you can see that these soldiers statues can be in his room:

Kinzo having armor suits in his room isn't that odd considering. But I wonder why they're shown in the OP like that, they do kind of stand out now that you pointed it out to me ... are they in any way related to the crime? (Is Kinzo's body hidden in one? O_o; )

[tehjoker]

(Is Kinzo's body hidden in one? O_o; )

The Armor could have broken down considering that Kinzo is a huge man but, it's possible.

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by Rena Ryuuguu

why not? just think that Natsuhi was exactly trying to believe that too, if she insists she had seen Kinzo to that time everyone would believe she can't be the culprit because the culprit wouldn't insist that he/she had seen kinzo at the Study

That's called "she lied", not "it was a flashback", if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

Kinzo having armor suits in his room isn't that odd considering. But I wonder why they're shown in the OP like that, they do kind of stand out now that you pointed it out to me ... are they in any way related to the crime? (Is Kinzo's body hidden in one? O_o; )

Everybody is killed by ROBOTIC SUITS OF ARMOR created by Kinzo with his vast wealth despite it being 1986. It's about as feasible as human cloning in 1968, after all!

[Renall]

Originally Posted by The Visored

Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo are out for the red truth.

No, they just didn't "commit murder." Nothing in red says they (or Jessica in ep3) didn't KILL anyone...

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Renall

No, they just didn't "commit murder." Nothing in red says they (or Jessica in ep3) didn't KILL anyone...

Killing someone and murdering someone is the same thing, isn't it :|???

[Kets]

Originally Posted by Marion

Killing someone and murdering someone is the same thing, isn't it :|???

Murder requires maliceful aforethoughts, doesn't it?

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Kets

Murder requires maliceful aforethoughts, doesn't it?

There's 1st degree and 2nd degree. 1st is having thoughts of killing, 2nd is just killing. But killing someone is still murdering them, just a different name.