[Manga] Who is Tobi?

[Retcon_Man]

Listen people. If Tobi isn't the other half of Black Zetsu, or related to Zetsu in some way, then every other possibility is just plain stupid. To go to these lengths to impersonate Madara for so long means that he is also using the name of Madara to be feared amongst many people. That at least wouldn't create problems in the already badly written story. Especially with all the knowledge Tobi has about the Uchiha, the Sages, and Senju... It would make perfect sense. It would keep things at a steady level. One wrong move by Kishi, and this will just make things worse.

And to no surprise, the art is still horrendous. Why is SJ allowing this garbage for so long?

[mrShady]

What's bad about the art?
I've seen worse (HxH comes to mind)
I personally quite like the art.

[Bismark]

Spoiler:

I agree with the Tobi could be Izuna

1. He isn't Madara Uchiha
-Freaked whenever he saw Madara's corpse
-Said "Madara Uchiha's power" which can mean his mantle of authority over the Uchiha clan
-the only source of the Madara-Izuna story, and he has a habit of lying
-We don't know anything about Izuna's actual personality other than he was competitive with Madara and blood thirsty
-We never saw Izuna actually buried, only implied(ninja fakery?)
-People can live without their eyeballs, and Sharingans are already known as interchangible body parts
2. Has an eyeball problem
-Itachi said that Tobi lacked his original power, meaning that after Madara taking Izuna's eyeballs he merely took another base Sharingan or perhaps he did unlock a version of Kamui above that of Kakashi's eyeball without having to resort to weakening his own eyeball
-Never tires from using a Sharingan, nor has to keep it sealed and can turn off the Sharingans he has (implying he is an Uchiha)
-Gives him incentive to become or was a medic nin to be able to experiment with bodies
3. Has spikey black hair that is short which Tobi has
-Uchiha's have black and sometimes spikey hair
-the older Uchiha's did not have white hair when they aged as seen with Sasuke's aunt and uncle yet they wrinkled like Tobi is
-Izuna, like Madara, look like Sasuke in youth
-intense, powerful chakra retains hair color as seen with Nagato having his chakra restored and powered (which the Uchiha's have)
4. Is an Uchiha because he can turn off his Sharingan and not be affected by the Sharingan draining problem that nonUchihas face, the only exception being is someone that is an Uzamaki that are known for the strong bodies and Senju blood that can upgrade a Sharingan to a Rinnengan. Since he couldn't upgrade the Sharingans himself, he used Pain as a donor Uzimaki to get the Rinnengan he wanted
-Oddly uses 1 Rinnengan rather than two and retains the Sharingan, so shows some favor to having a Sharingan
-Equally Tobimaru was already used up earlier in Part I and had white hair



Some further questions:

1. Why did Tobi pick Itachi as his apprentice?
2. How was the actual relationship between Izuna and Madara played out in the past?
3. Who was Fugaku or Mikito's father or grandfather?
4. Why was Fugaku the clan leader of the Uchiha's?
5. Who was the original leader of Anbu(implying Izuna is a possible candidate here)?

My person opinion:

Tobi is Izuna and he survived and his son was Fugaku(or inherited the role of leader by marrying Mikito) and his two grandchildren or great grandchildren are Itachi and Sasuke. This would equally follow up with a Sasuke being the little brother of Itachi and Izuna being the little brother of Madara as a sort of foil between the two characters. I feel that Mikoto being the daughter or granddaughter of Izuna would preclude her husband to be the clan leader if it's a case of primogeniture for clan leadership, and that she looks the closest of the two parents to both sets of siblings to act as the transmitter for the lineage from Izuna/Madara->Itachi/Sasuke.

Sasuke's lineage theory:

-Madara(great uncle)

-Izuna+unnamed woman->Mikoto+Fugaku->Itachi/Sasuke

Kirgakure and Anti-Kekkaigenkaism

Equally this would give incentive for Tobi to have created Kirigakure in his image for the "bloody mist" and eventually setting off the paranoia against kekkai genkai, which still has went unexplained. If Izuna messed with the politics of the area and since he had a kekkai genkai could have set off the paranoia and rabble rousing over exterminating people with a kekkai genkai in Kiragkure. Izuna having the evil enough chakra to control a tailed beast, like his brother, would equally be able to perhaps control lower tailed Jinchuuriki.

[Aquillion]

Originally Posted by Essenar

And not one person gave me credit for calling the casket body as the real Madara. A lot of good predictions go uncredited here I suppose.

A lot of people thought that, since it was the most logical corpse to make Tobi react that way, and would make for the most dramatic revelation.

(Also, the fact that Tobi kept the mask on even once we theoretically knew who he was was pretty telling, of course.)

[pedro-v]

I think its Izuna Uchiha

[SheIsMySiN]

Check out chapter 560!!!

Spoiler for manga, chapter 560:

Seams like Madara knows who is the Masked Man, as so does Kabuto!!

[Rolyn]

i think second hokage

[Uiruu]

Spoiler for Manga (just in case):

I honestly don't know. I thought he was Obito before he was revealed to be Madara. But now that it's revealed to be unsure.... I don't know. I think it could be Obito, wearing the mask to hide that, or he is Madara in someone else's body. His brother's maybe? Obito's maybe? I'm leaning toward that it is indeed Madara's consciousness, but as we saw Madara reborn, I am sure Tobi is not Madara in body. And Kabuto knows that.

Joking aside, it's Bruce Wayne.

[Mateus]

It's not a voting option but I think that he is Izuna, or some kind of clone/copy of the real Madara.

[Tactics]

Well-- there's something weird about Tobi.

As we saw in a lot of chapters.
Implanted eyes ( out from the bloodline ) lead to an uncontrollable flow of chakra.
Kakashi, Ao, and Danzo is a good example.

Now.
Tobi implanted Rinnegan to himself.
He doesn't seem to have any problems with his new eye.

I wonder why ?

[Ushio the Omega]

I'm suspious about the 3rd mizukage myself.

We know what all the kages at least look like from 2nd onwards except for the 3rd mizukage.

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Well-- there's something weird about Tobi.

As we saw in a lot of chapters.
Implanted eyes ( out from the bloodline ) lead to an uncontrollable flow of chakra.
Kakashi, Ao, and Danzo is a good example.

Now.
Tobi implanted Rinnegan to himself.
He doesn't seem to have any problems with his new eye.

I wonder why ?

Well, IMHO it has something to do with Zetsu. Zetsu seems to be something rather important that belongs to the fake Madara.
That fake Madara had no problem with tearing off his arm in order to just make it regrow. He could be one of Zetsu's chakra copies or –which I prefer – one of Orochimaru's experiments.

The one strange thing is that Kabuto knows nothing about Zetsu except the facts Fake Madara told him. This means that Zetsu can't be one of Orochimaru's wicked experiments.

Nevertheless Fake Madara could be one of Orochimaru's experiments. Kabuto knew his secret before everyone else. He didn't even have to discover it.
It would also explain why this Fake Madara believes that he is the real Madara and he knows about the stolen DNA from the First Hokage.

Itachi said that Fake Madara was a shell of his former self. You know that a shell is the outside of something. It's opaque and you can't see what's inside.
This is a good idea, but it doesn't explain why he is wearing a mask. The mask means that he has to hide his face and if he believed he was the real Madara, he would not have to cover his face –not after telling everyone that he was Madara.

So it's just like they said: He's using the name and he is not Madara.

IMHO he could be some rebuilt Obito. We know that people can be revived and saved. They said that Iwagakure used Akatsuki in wars and they were the ones who killed Obito. Maybe it was just a trick. He could sacrifice one eye because he would simply steal hundreds of eyes. Maybe his first eyes were just chakra copies made by Zetsu. Mayve some of his body parts are still Zetsu because Zetsu was shown to be able to feed people with chakra and make exact copies of him. It's not farfetched that he can create body party and that these body parts match the new owner's charka.

[RockGuitarDude]

Tobi = First or Second Hokage

I'm thinking that when Madara & Hashirama fought, the end result was that Madara somehow got the wood techniques and that Hashirama got the sharingan in one eye, likely an eye of Madara's brother (hence the mask). I think Hashirama then took the name Tobi as an homage to his brother.

The thing that throws me is, the name Tobi leads me to think he's the second hokage, but the facial features are similar to the first and the story fits better with him being the first.

The fact that he uses space-time jutsu like the second is very confusing as well. It could even be the second in the first's body. Who the hell knows. That would satisfy them as both being dead and being able to be summoned by Orochimaru and still have this hybrid be alive.

[Aquillion]

The most recent page seems to confirm that he's not actually Madara in any way (not even a part of him, as some people suggested) -- Kabuto, who seems to know what's going on, called him a "Fake Madara", which wouldn't make sense otherwise.

And Obito continues to make no sense at all. Remember, Madara knows the "fake Madara", and seems to have made a plan with him. Was Obito even alive at the same time as Madara? How would he, of all people, have a deal with Madara? Obito never made sense -- people just leaped on it because of the one-eye thing and the fact that there were so few named characters with Sharingans back then. I mean, look at the list originally put on this thread when it was made -- they could only think of two candidates who would actually have a Sharingan!

Actually, one idea occurs to me: We can narrow down who Tobi is by looking at who hasn't been brought back to life. Any famous ninja from the past who hasn't reappeared is a candidate (and no, Obito continues to not be famous enough to be worth resurrecting.)

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Well-- there's something weird about Tobi.

As we saw in a lot of chapters.
Implanted eyes ( out from the bloodline ) lead to an uncontrollable flow of chakra.
Kakashi, Ao, and Danzo is a good example.

Now.
Tobi implanted Rinnegan to himself.
He doesn't seem to have any problems with his new eye.

I wonder why ?

Uchiha descended from the sage, so yeah.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by Aquillion

And Obito continues to make no sense at all. Remember, Madara knows the "fake Madara", and seems to have made a plan with him. Was Obito even alive at the same time as Madara? How would he, of all people, have a deal with Madara? Obito never made sense -- people just leaped on it because of the one-eye thing and the fact that there were so few named characters with Sharingans back then. I mean, look at the list originally put on this thread when it was made -- they could only think of two candidates who would actually have a Sharingan!

Nah, Obito Theory still has the most going for it. As far as the timeline goes, I think it can turn out to work pretty nicely. Nagato is around 10 years older than Kakashi/Obito, give or take a couple years (we don't know the exact dates). If Nagato received the Rinnegan as a child (shortly after Madara's death), then Madara would have died around the same time that Obito was born (kind of convenient). All it takes for the theory to remain valid is for Madara to seal his chakras inside a newborn infant. This is not a stretch at all, considering we know that Minato already did this with Naruto.

It's not necessarily true that Madara ever knew Tobi on a personal level. Look at Minato. He did not get to know Naruto before he died, and yet he entrusted Naruto with the task of protecting Konoha, completing Rasengan, and controlling the kyuubi.

[mrShady]

You're forgetting the Kyuubi incident. No matter how or what, Obito was too young to be Tobi back then. And since Tobi hasn't changed since that encounter (only a hair change right?) we can only assume he's the same guy.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by mrShady

You're forgetting the Kyuubi incident. No matter how or what, Obito was too young to be Tobi back then. And since Tobi hasn't changed since that encounter (only a hair change right?) we can only assume he's the same guy.

I didn't forget about it. I disagree that he was too young to be Tobi. Tobi's body was already modified by the time of that incident (look back at fight between Tobi and Minato and you'll see the Tobi's hand drips off. He's already partially made of Zetsu goo at that point).

[mrShady]

Still Obito was already killed at that time. That would have to mean that when Obito got killed his destroyed body was replaced with Zetsu goo. This would explain Tobi's right eye being his dominant one. However, the few times we saw Tobi's face he looked much older then Kakashi's.

I'm not denying the possibility of Tobi having Obito's eye however I doubt it's Obito himself. It's not in his character. Madara's brother or someone else of considerable age is much more likely.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by mrShady

Still Obito was already killed at that time. That would have to mean that when Obito got killed his destroyed body was replaced with Zetsu goo. This would explain Tobi's right eye being his dominant one. However, the few times we saw Tobi's face he looked much older then Kakashi's.

Somewhere earlier in this thread I did an image comparison of wrinkly people and Tobi's exposed face in order to make the comparison between how Kishi draws age wrinkles. Tobi's facial features did not match up. He has long lines on the right side of his face, but no crows feet. I think they look more like the lines in White Zetsu's face when he splits from his black half. So, I don't believe they are age wrinkles at all. I also think there is a reason we haven't seen the left half of Tobi's face - specifically because it does not have the same scars as the right half.

I'm not denying the possibility of Tobi having Obito's eye however I doubt it's Obito himself. It's not in his character. Madara's brother or someone else of considerable age is much more likely.

Izuna is dead in more ways than one. One way is that he died in Tobi's flashback. Secondly, he had no eyes. And thirdly, he's also far too old. When you also take into account that there is currently no way of connecting Izuna to Tobi's spacetime tech, Izuna is not likely at all. I don't see it. I also think that with the amount of knowledge that Tobi has, even Izuna wouldn't fit. I think Tobi's memories are genuinely Madara's, not Izuna's or anyone elses.