Claymore - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Sordes Pilosus]

Well one reason Riful choose Duff might be quite simple. He is quite big afterall.. Pluss there are the tactical aspects. He is a tank, few can take hits as Duff, pluss he is a tank that aint locked to close range combat. While he seams not to have the clasic "finger pircers" his rods are more then enough considering his power and armour.

[Super Ska Master]

You guys know you're talking about monsters, right? o_o

[xVxObliVioNxVx]

Originally Posted by Super Ska Master

You guys know you're talking about monsters, right? o_o

Nothing wrong with talking about the human characteristics these monsters have.

[Teresa/Clare1415]

This episode was a ten for me! I loved it.

[chucky]

***sigh****
A potentially marvelous reunion of Sailormoon seiyuu dreamteam has turned sour by one single person, namely, Mizuki Nana who dubbed Riful.....

Not to mention the animation quality is getting more and more terrible as the series progresses -- I tried everytime to turn the contrast of my mon to max and I still couldnt see jack.

And close-up of the characters, particularly several of them including Ophelia and Galatea, has gone astray from the original manga by quite a bit.

A potentially enjoyable series has been ruined -- yes, the story itself looks all too familiar and you can pick out quite a number of blemishes in the manga like the way it is drawn bleh bleh -- but Claymore does have its enchanting quality set it apart from the likes of the procrastinating JUMP stuff. I wished before its animation would be a success.

And the hope was high at the beginning. The series is supported first by an array of first-rated seiyuu like Paku Romi and Kuwashima Houko, with all those in the rank of household names like Takeuchi Junko playing even some forgettable sidekicks. And then we are talking about Hisakawa Aya(Sailor Mercury as Priscilla), Shinohawa Emi(Sailor Jupiter as Ophelia) and Mitsuichi Kotono(Sailor Moon as Jean), all prime-time seiyuus of the last decade. But the fun is ruined by one single seiyuu who dubbed the most decorated character after Teresa: Mizuki is too young, hated by 2ch, and just cannot handle the complicated nature of Riful at all -- a mentor in a meandering way; an info leaker if she's in good mood; a cruel and yet playful loli-dominatrix. This cool character has been leveled and squeezed into a something worse than a backdrop of the darker-than-black mis-en-scene.

I wish Madhouse can find their excuse in the production of Gunslinger Girls 2. Or it will be a total disaster for the company. Oh, I have almost forgotten how terrible and repetitive the music pieces are.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by chucky

***sigh****
A potentially marvelous reunion of Sailormoon seiyuu dreamteam has turned sour by one single person, namely, Mizuki Nana who dubbed Riful.....

...who did an absolutely outstanding job imho.

Not to mention the animation quality is getting more and more terrible as the series progresses -- I tried everytime to turn the contrast of my mon to max and I still couldnt see jack.

Which means that your monitor equipment is broken. Get yourself a new one. There's details to see everywhere. Got an old CRT, maybe? On my work monitor, it's too dark, too - but this one is way too dark to begin with.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by chucky

***sigh****
A potentially marvelous reunion of Sailormoon seiyuu dreamteam has turned sour by one single person, namely, Mizuki Nana who dubbed Riful.....

Who did a absolutely wonderful job.

[chucky]

Well I am not here to pick fights, but please look at elsewhere how she has been sneered at as Riful in other non-English forums....

And I rest my case.

[Mentar]

Well, of course there's no right or wrong. De gustibus non disputandam. All I'm saying is that in my opinion she's been doing an outstanding job voicing the whimsical-playful Riful so far.

I'd also say that Claymore is one of the extremely few manga conversions where I'm not sure whether overall the manga or anime is better. Which is an amazing feat IMHO. It certainly is the best manga adaption I can think of in the recent past.

[Majek]

Originally Posted by Super Ska Master

You guys know you're talking about monsters, right? o_o

Humans are worse, that's why i like AB's.

[Kouvley]

Originally Posted by chucky

***sigh****
A potentially marvelous reunion of Sailormoon seiyuu dreamteam has turned sour by one single person, namely, Mizuki Nana who dubbed Riful.....

Who I also think done an absolutely brilliant job.

I find your reasons for the show being "ruined" quite bizzare but if that's what you think so be it.

[chucky]

To give more an elaboration, riful is a difficult character for dubbing -- if you have seen Black Lagoon, in a certain way riful would remind you of the Romanian killer twins -- but at the same time she is an old and bored wench. That's why the seiyuu cannot dub riful in one single tone, but noticeable changes will be necessary when she jumps from one topic to another. Mizuku? Nah, she didnt do it.

And in terms of adaptation.... well there are inherited difficulties to adapt a monthly-based manga into a 26 episode animation series for sure. You know, a chapter encapsulation often means the author is to make a single point in each, and the rule of thumb usually is 2 chapters of weekly-based manga putting in one single anime episode usually makes the cutting off of the material looks a lot smoother..... but we all know that monthly-based manga usually has more pages and it makes adaptation a lot more difficult.

I wont deny that the first 7-8 episodes of the claymore animation did a very good job. It is not only "not bad", but it charmed me into reading the whole damn mangas from cover to cover more than 3 times. And their seiyuu team, as I mentioned, is the most scary one put together, in terms of numbers and the prestiges. Go to the claymore page in animenetwork, and randomly click on the names of any of the seiyuu -- except a couple amateurs prolly you cannot believe how far you have to scroll down to finish off reading each of their resume.

But the funny thing is: the production team suddenly chose to put someone not the same caliber (and fair or not, quite hated by many oldschoolers) to handle the second most important living character in the series. It is very mind boggling to many people including myself indeed.

[Cococokie]

This episode is disappointing.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by chucky

To give more an elaboration, riful is a difficult character for dubbing -- if you have seen Black Lagoon, in a certain way riful would remind you of the Romanian killer twins --

Bad start if you go into a review with this - which means that you go into it with preconceived ideas with "how the VA is supposed to sound". Prime mistake in anime/manga consumption.

...but at the same time she is an old and bored wench.

Throughout the entire manga, there is not one scene in which Riful looks or sounds bored. Not a single one. She's always on the ball - the only comment of hers in this direction at all was her explanation that just being on her own and feeding felt boring for her. However, in all scenes she's depicted now she's aware and invested.

It's true that her overall age will be pretty high. However, her youthful form would forbid any "old" sound. Nope, what she takes with her due to her experience is an aura of authority and self-confidence. And that, Mizuki Nana provided in droves.

That's why the seiyuu cannot dub riful in one single tone, but noticeable changes will be necessary when she jumps from one topic to another. Mizuku? Nah, she didnt do it.

Okay, we have to agree to disagree here. Initially I had to adjust to her voice, since it sounded cuter and younger than I expected (initially, I pictured her with a slightly older and "harder" voice). However, exactly the mood swings from teasy-playful (her handling of Clare) to authoritative (Duff) to excited (awakening) to disappointed (aww, returned) to sober (about Galatea's explanation) were very well to follow to MY ear at least.

Oh, and one final thing: Please leave me alone with the so-called "Japanese worshippers". Many boards like 2chan are the absolute pits of wackos and weirdos. I wouldn't rate their expertise in fairly assessing a performance any higher than the members of this board.

[Anh_Minh]

I'm with Mentar, except that Riful's voice was pretty much exactly as I pictured it when reading the manga.

I'd like to add that Riful, for all her contradictions (old and loli, friendly and hostile, playful and ruthless...) doesn't have a split personality. There's no reason for her to have "several voices".

[Matrim]

..who did an absolutely outstanding job imho.

I totally agree with that.

Well I am not here to pick fights, but please look at elsewhere how she has been sneered at as Riful in other non-English forums....

So what? We should just accept these people's opinions and not our own? Oh, please... Using the same logic you shouldn't criticise Claymore, since most people on this forum love it.

And thanks for informing us that Claymore has an all star cast, I would just add that in other news the sun rises daily.

As for the episode itself, I liked it but I would have liked it even more if it wasn't for the all too familiar chit-chat during the fights, this time between Claire and Galatea. But it's good to see Claire being pwned and rescued once again and not becoming an unstoppable force of nature out of the blue.

[Seska]

Originally Posted by Matrim

But it's good to see Claire being pwned and rescued once again and not becoming an unstoppable force of nature out of the blue.

Jip, and thats is that. Why i love this Anime from the Start. A "hero" with Human mind/will and heart... (Raki Szene at the beginning...)

[chucky]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Bad start if you go into a review with this - which means that you go into it with preconceived ideas with "how the VA is supposed to sound". Prime mistake in anime/manga consumption.

Well, no one can be a neutral observer in the first place, can they?

Throughout the entire manga, there is not one scene in which Riful looks or sounds bored. Not a single one. She's always on the ball - the only comment of hers in this direction at all was her explanation that just being on her own and feeding felt boring for her. However, in all scenes she's depicted now she's aware and invested.

It's true that her overall age will be pretty high. However, her youthful form would forbid any "old" sound. Nope, what she takes with her due to her experience is an aura of authority and self-confidence. And that, Mizuki Nana provided in droves.

Can I say you now go into the manga with preconceived ideas on that? Is that a bad idea itself?
I think, well there is a dialogue in which she said, "yeah I just sleep and eat everyday and now the challenge makes me excited"......

Oh, and one final thing: Please leave me alone with the so-called "Japanese worshippers". Many boards like 2chan are the absolute pits of wackos and weirdos. I wouldn't rate their expertise in fairly assessing a performance any higher than the members of this board.

Yes and no... yes, 2ch has a lot of idiots like everywhere else, but not everyone there is idiot. Nor is it only a 2ch thing. Nor the criticism on Mizuku only on 2ch....

[chucky]

Originally Posted by Matrim

I totally agree with that.



So what? We should just accept these people's opinions and not our own? Oh, please... Using the same logic you shouldn't criticise Claymore, since most people on this forum love it.

And thanks for informing us that Claymore has an all star cast, I would just add that in other news the sun rises daily.

As for the episode itself, I liked it but I would have liked it even more if it wasn't for the all too familiar chit-chat during the fights, this time between Claire and Galatea. But it's good to see Claire being pwned and rescued once again and not becoming an unstoppable force of nature out of the blue.

Sorry but I dont think you get the point here right.... no one is obliged to care about the other's feeling toward the works, nor should you care about how I feel toward Claymore in the first place. I am talking about arguments.

I would like to ask Skyfall on this: does this kind of post constitute a "flame bait"?

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by chucky

Yes and no... yes, 2ch has a lot of idiots like everywhere else, but not everyone there is idiot. Nor is it only a 2ch thing. Nor the criticism on Mizuku only on 2ch....

Do you have a link? I am on a few other forum and i don't see anyone having a problem with Mizuki Nana. If fact more then a few mention she did a pretty good job as Riful. Only compliants were about the animation.

PS. this is the forum over at AnimeOnDVD