Shakugan no Shana III - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[SkyFlames]

This episode surpassed all of my expectations. The new opening took me by surprise and I thought it was going to overshadow the whole episode, it solved the past problem we had with Light my Fire, that didn't have enough Shana/Yuji scenes. This one was a lot more balanced and gave us a nice peak of this season.

Then to the episode, the war was pretty realistic and I like this whole thing of military strategies and how Sophie used her resources for it.

And as for Yuji/SoF, I'm pretty much on their side right now, at least till the Shana's side find an incoherence in his perfect world plan. I like their speeches as well, always trying to get a reaction on the different armies and suceeding most of the times.

The ending was okay so far, I'm looking forward for the animation. Oh and ending up with static images of the Flame Hazes' defeat was also a nice touch.

Looking forward for more Sale and Chiara action.

[MeoTwister5]

Well Triple_R has basically said most of everything I had to say about the episode. I never thought I'd see such a grand and provoking exposition from the series, goes to show how little I know. Now that Flame Haze's raizon d'etre has been called into question, the nature of the conflict will naturally shift to something neither side has ever seen or thought possible before.

[Cosmic Eagle]

New OP is good. ED is pretty calming

Yuji...why must you look like Mercurius at the end of it though? Well I suppose it goes with the Snake....

Fecor, you'll be remembered....

WOOT NEXT EP IS SYDONAY, CHIARA AND SALE

Originally Posted by ars89

Perfect plan by the Snake. Flame Hazes losing their morale was funny. If their new world isn't going to affect this one i don't see a problem either. Wonder what Shana will do. New OP was just great.

You have to understand that 90% of Flame Hazes are driven solely by vengeance and battle lust....if the meaning in their battle was seemingly taken away, then it means they'd given up their humanity and fought this bloody long war through the millenia for nothing.

Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire

@Elf song
Please explain the error in the Spoiler thread. Thanks.

The following text is quoted from another forum. I could not say it better myself.

The reason why Denizens need to kill the Flame Hazes is that Flame Hazes are still attacking Seireiden. That is no longer the case here, as Flame Hazes have lost the will to fight. With the Denizens killing the defenseless Flame Hazes, which side is being mean and unfair? To me, it has to be the Denizens.

A thousand thousand years of slaughtering and getting slaughtered, now their greatest enemies are naked and defenceless....of course they would leap upon them and tear them to shreds once and for all...

It's not as if the Flame Hazes haven't been doing the same thing all this while eh? Doesn't make it right though...

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Kristen

So, I was a little confused by the OP. It seemed to imply Yuji x Shana. But then I realized something. Through all of those scenes, there is a white fade in/fade out effect. That's when it hit me - those are simply Shana's memories and fantasies. Memories of being young, memories of meeting Yuji, and her desire that she'd be able to be with Yuji and the Kazumi would just disappear. Yet Yuji is falling away from her at the end was a great metaphor because she knows it can never be true - his heart belongs to Kazumi, and no other. It's nothing more than memories and fantasies. Very poetic. ^^

This episode was epic and showed me how this show can survive another 10 episodes. Makes me wonder if they will be able to end it at all, to be honest. So much plot to do unless this is heading towards a bad end.

I love how in all your analysis, you never once factored in Hecate ^^

[Nochgo]

An EPIC episode, with an EPIC OP to go along with it. As others have pointed out, I felt the new OP was on the level of Hishoku no Sora, one of the anime songs I can listen to and never get bored of. The animation that along with it were eye candy as well.

And we finally learn of whats going on through Yuji's and SnH's head. The execution was just simply amazing, leading to the complete demoralization of the Flame Haze army and the ensuing slaughter. Normally, I'd be scratching my head and go "why fall for a line an enemy said," but I guess things are a bit different if the one saying is the God of Creation.

A question though. What was the reason for the Tomogaras leaving the Guze in the first place? Was there a lack of power of existence there or something?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Nochgo

An EPIC episode, with an EPIC OP to go along with it. As others have pointed out, I felt the new OP was on the level of Hishoku no Sora, one of the anime songs I can listen to and never get bored of. The animation that along with it were eye candy as well.

And we finally learn of whats going on through Yuji's and SnH's head. The execution was just simply amazing, leading to the complete demoralization of the Flame Haze army and the ensuing slaughter. Normally, I'd be scratching my head and go "why fall for a line an enemy said," but I guess things are a bit different if the one saying is the God of Creation.

A question though. What was the reason for the Tomogaras leaving the Guze in the first place? Was there a lack of power of existence there or something?

Something like that....IIRC, they were formless....entities in Guze. They need the Existence to well...materialize and stuff. So it really IS their life fuel.

[edgelesspigeon]

Hey, just a quick question. Am I correct in assuming that the season finishes production before airing?

[Mr. Anime]

i just love SnS, and finally we have a non cliché male main character^^ (although imo what he s doing is right as long as SnH didnt lie to him, but shana is too cute to be on the villains side). it would be funny if SnH s plans actually work out and the new world is created and everyone lives happily ever after. as long as its a yujixshana ending i am satisfied, but it might be possible that yuji dies at end.

[Reckoner]

Honestly the flame haze have presented themselves in a very bad light. There is little reason to have any real trust in either side's story at the moment. Seeing as Yuiji is the story's protagonist (well at least up until S3), you'd think he was siding with what is the most appropriate choice.

I am going to guess though that in the end this series is going to cop out with a third hidden option, but hey so far it's been very enjoyable.

So far I buy Yuiji and Serei no Hebi's story more than the Flame haze's mostly because they seem to offer very little constructive reasoning on just exactly why their plan is so catastrophic.

[Senshigeia]

Originally Posted by Kristen

So, I was a little confused by the OP. It seemed to imply Yuji x Shana. But then I realized something. Through all of those scenes, there is a white fade in/fade out effect. That's when it hit me - those are simply Shana's memories and fantasies. Memories of being young, memories of meeting Yuji, and her desire that she'd be able to be with Yuji and the Kazumi would just disappear. Yet Yuji is falling away from her at the end was a great metaphor because she knows it can never be true - his heart belongs to Kazumi, and no other. It's nothing more than memories and fantasies. Very poetic. ^^

This episode was epic and showed me how this show can survive another 10 episodes. Makes me wonder if they will be able to end it at all, to be honest. So much plot to do unless this is heading towards a bad end.

Kristen you never cease to amaze me!

The coolest thing about this episode is that it really looks like a real war!

[MeoTwister5]

I'd say that the most obvious choice to fuel the world of eternal power of existence would be the Reiji Maigo itself. The problem is is that if it's still inside Yuji, using it to satisfy the needs of everyone who have so far lived and died on the belief that it is limited and often must be fought for will require that Yuji either stay in Xanadu forever, or find a way to remove it from himself.

And as I've mentioned before, The Flame Haze's raizon d'etre have pretty much been the same for centuries. I assume that for the most part everyone who has become a Flame Haze had a similar goal in mind It's only natural that if the sole reason all of them have been fighting for centuries or even millennia had been put into question with the suggestion that there could have been a much better alternative, all of them would be forced to confront this and the loss of meaning in their actions.

Whether Sophie is living in denial or not, well, that remains to be seen if there's any truth to Yuji/SnH's words. The question is whether he KNOWS it can be done, or as of now THINKS it can be done. We don't know if there's any guarantee this paradise of there's can really come true, so suspicion is obviously warranted. The Flame Haze are indeed an old organization, some of them plenty tired and jaded. I think it's only natural that some of them also finally want a world where both sides no longer have to kill each other.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Mr. Anime

i just love SnS, and finally we have a non cliché male main character^^ (although imo what he s doing is right as long as SnH didnt lie to him, but shana is too cute to be on the villains side). it would be funny if SnH s plans actually work out and the new world is created and everyone lives happily ever after. as long as its a yujixshana ending i am satisfied, but it might be possible that yuji dies at end.

I'm opting for the Romeo x Juliet ending, it's the only way for Shana to redeem for her past stupidity.

[FlareKnight]

I don't find it hard to be suspicious of this paradise being presented. The issue of energy really is the key here. You'd assume the Reiji Maigo, but if that was the key then Yuji wouldn't be so for it since he could hardly live with Shana in their world then. He'd either have to leave it and disappear or keep it and the plan wouldn't work. I do think it'd be a more interesting moral debate if just copying the world did copy everyone in it. Give the Tomogara human 'copies' to use as livestock of existence.

Besides anyone who turns a won battle into a full out massacre....

Maybe they have all these episodes now to figure out what is the evil catch behind the plan .

[klare]

a total defeat, could not have guess the flame haze are so weak mentally

about the amibition, i remember the Tomogara needs to feed on the power of existence, so even in the proposed Xanadu people will still be eaten and disappear... it does not sound right even if they are copies

[hayate-sama]

Originally Posted by klare

a total defeat, could not have guess the flame haze are so weak mentally

about the amibition, i remember the Tomogara needs to feed on the power of existence, so even in the proposed Xanadu people will still be eaten and disappear... it does not sound right even if they are copies

The main reason that tomogara must consume POE is that they don't exist in this world so in order to materialize, the have to consume the existence of this world being . However according to Yuji he will rewrite the rule itself so that Xanadu won't reject Tomogara, in turn Tomogara don't have to consume existence to materialize anymore

[Game8910]

Originally Posted by klare

a total defeat, could not have guess the flame haze are so weak mentally

If you think about it, most flame hazes are born from a single desire for revenge and live for the single purpose of hunting tomogara. Yuji's speech took that away from them, for flame haze who gave up their humanity for this single cause...this pretty much makes their only purpose to exist worthless.

[Senshigeia]

I think maybe the professor will make, or has already made, some kind of devise that works on everywhere in Xanadu, where the Reiji Maigo is placed and every day at midnight it replaces all the energy consumed during that day. If Yuji is in Xanadu then he also will have his energy replaced. And I am pretty sure Yuji is very confident about this plan, and it is not only speculation.

[SkyFlames]

Originally Posted by Senshigeia

I think maybe the professor will make, or has already made, some kind of devise that works on everywhere in Xanadu, where the Reiji Maigo is placed and every day at midnight it replaces all the energy consumed during that day. If Yuji is in Xanadu then he also will have his energy replaced. And I am pretty sure Yuji is very confident about this plan, and it is not only speculation.

The only problem that I see is from where will Yuji get so much energy/PoE to create Xanadu. The Path of Pilgrimage was created by using Sabrac's existence (I think?) but then who will by the source of power for Xanadu?

[Senshigeia]

That I am not sure... Maybe they already have that amount of PoE stored... Or SnH himself has the power to create it.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by SkyFlames

The only problem that I see is from where will Yuji get so much energy/PoE to create Xanadu. The Path of Pilgrimage was created by using Sabrac's existence (I think?) but then who will by the source of power for Xanadu?

I am pretty sure in the second season his maximum capacity of PoE that he can hold was greatly increased (i am not sure, but wasn't it mentioned that the power he can hold is on par with a crimson lord?). Seeing that Yuji's PoE get's fully regenerated by Reiji Maigo every day, i don't think it will take that long to gather that ammount