Fate/stay night Heaven's Feel Movie Discussion Thread

[Mcfart]

Originally Posted by mirakura

Looked on topic to me o_o. It's related to the Fate route

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by Mcfart

Looked on topic to me o_o. It's related to the Fate route

Fate route isn't in the adaptation and the title is: Fate/stay night UBW & HF Movie Pre-air Speculaton/Spoiler thread.

[GDB]

It's tangential to the discussion at hand of the sex scenes from the visual novel and their importance and impact on the routes. You can't go on a tirade about "off topic posts" mere minutes after making a post about wishing you had the fifth magic, which has even less to do about anything.

Thinking about UBW, one thing I really hope they update is when Archer is "defeated" by Gilgamesh. It always came across as him being killed, but then he reappeared later and it was said he was never actually killed. Hopefully they do that scene right so that it doesn't look like he's killed.

[mirakura]

Saber's soul time travels to da future! So it's perfectly on-topic :3

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by GDB

Thinking about UBW, one thing I really hope they update is when Archer is "defeated" by Gilgamesh. It always came across as him being killed, but then he reappeared later and it was said he was never actually killed. Hopefully they do that scene right so that it doesn't look like he's killed.

That's just Nasu's writing. He cannot differentiate between "very badly wounded" and "dead" with his writing (people don't die when they are killed?). It's the same as the dramatic scene near the end of Fate where Rin was badly wounded. I thought she had died there when I read it, but then SURPRISE! She is actually alive and well in the epilogue.

[GDB]

I always figured Rin was alive there, but Archer was weird. He was standing there, with a lot of swords in him, talking to Shirou. Then all of a sudden he wasn't there, and no one mentioned seeing him run away. So by all accounts, he just disappeared and died. I even figured him coming back wasn't "Servant Archer" but rather "Counter Guardian Emiya" until Nasu said otherwise in an interview.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

I always figured his "death" was him turning into Spirit mode that no one realised or mentioned. In general though Shirou is quite resilient since even ignoring Avalon, UBW acts as a defence mechanism by turning his body into swords, It's not that strange he somehow survived.

It's more that him being taken out twice lead one to believe he had died which was the point for dramatic effect I guess.

[Mcfart]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

I always figured his "death" was him turning into Spirit mode that no one realised or mentioned. In general though Shirou is quite resilient since even ignoring Avalon, UBW acts as a defence mechanism by turning his body into swords, It's not that strange he somehow survived.

It's more that him being taken out twice lead one to believe he had died which was the point for dramatic effect I guess.

Yeah I was wondering about this very thing, but I think the explanation is he went into spirit mode and cocky Gilgamesh thought he was dead cuz he would've been beary weak by then. But still, read as "blood everywhere, guy missing", you'd think he was dead lol.

I still think it was a damn machina that he came back ._.'. Archer must have a hidden A+ Plot Armor.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Mcfart

Yeah I was wondering about this very thing, but I think the explanation is he went into spirit mode and cocky Gilgamesh thought he was dead cuz he would've been beary weak by then. But still, read as "blood everywhere, guy missing", you'd think he was dead lol.

I still think it was a damn machina that he came back ._.'. Archer must have a hidden A+ Plot Armor.

He's was channelling his younger self the only time in the entire VN. Shirou got skills and abilities Archer got a bit of plot armour, fair trade.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

It happens in all 3 routes. Rin happens to witness it but not know what it going on in the prologue. It's only verified what happened in HF.

Sure, it happens in all three routes, but it's not relevant in all three routes, unless Gil interacts with Zouken or Sakura at some point in the story. That's like saying that they'll show scenes with Sakura in the basement in UBW because they happen. Sure, they do, but they're not important for UBW.

Originally Posted by mirakura

UBW and Fate will be equal but HF gets 2 adaptations from UFO so...not really even there.

Erm, what? HF is not getting 2 adaptations....

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

I think they'll be able to get away with most story related shit like crest worms (but they won't show in extended graphic detail), but most of random sex scenes between Shirou and Sakura will likely be cut short, I think the scene where Sakura lifts her skirt and she's wearing nothing will be heavily censored/removed.

Yeah, they'll probably have the H-scenes happen, but won't show them in any detail.

I do wonder how they'll handle the movies though if there's several will they cut out almost all the random cooking etc that doesn't add too much to the story or keep it in because that rally doesn't make for a particularly interesting movie if they kept all of it. The routes length largely comes down to that filler, so it'll be interesting seeing they'll do.

Well, they won't keep all of it, but they'll have to keep enough for character development at least.

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Kind but they were equally bad. I mean the reasons were the same. Sex transfers prana for some weird reason when they could easily have used plenty of other means such as blood or transference of other bodily fluids etc.

Except that, in Sakura's case, it actually makes sense for her to have sex for that purpose. Due to what Zouken does to her, she's easily-aroused, and her feelings for Shirou are such that she would want to have sex with him.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Except that, in Sakura's case, it actually makes sense for her to have sex for that purpose. Due to what Zouken does to her, she's easily-aroused, and her feelings for Shirou are such that she would want to have sex with him.

tvtropes sums up Sakura's sex scene quite well

Before, she felt her body was disgusting due to what she had gone through by Zouken, and had to sleep with Shirou in order to relieve the crest worm inside of her, and that even though she's been accepted and loved by him, she thought that he would never love her in "that" way. But then during one conversation with him, Shirou asks Sakura if they can sleep together again that night, leading to a tearful smile from Sakura; not only does this moment fully cement that Shirou truly loves her in every way and doesn't find anything disgusting about her, but it's the only sexual scene in the story where the underlying reason for it is not something supernatural, but one that's purely driven by love and acceptance.

Shows importance in Sakura's scenes when compared to the others that makes it more necessary than the RN version can portray properly. Neither Rin or Saber needed that which makes their RN version easier to use than the awkwardly placed deus sex machina scenes in UBW and Fate.

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Erm, what? HF is not getting 2 adaptations....

I mean it hypothetically.Read this:

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

also depending how they handle the HF movie, since there isn't actual confirmation on multiple movies yet as far as I am aware just speculation based on wording, I could see them doing a full series on HF before another full series on Fate. At best I can see a Fate movie to try and round things out but doing another full series for Fate seems pointless. Fate is the simplest of the 3 routes and likely the easiest to adapt into a movie.

And this:

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Yeah plus if HF ever gets a full series and Fate gets a movie then it would even things out. a full series for each route and a movie for each route.
.

Get it now? Even if each route gets a full anime and movie, HF will get the better deal as both it's adaptations would be done by UFO. So it wouldn't be 'even' would it? Please read other posts before hand :3

@cyberdemon

Wow, you're defend your fav heroine about sex? Really? That's not the point of this, you know that, right?


edit: Just re-read my post and lol'd - misunderstandings are the best :3

[Mikethemaster]

Archer has nothing on Shirou plot armor in HF he able to beat dark berserker but than again Iillya came in first and than shirou beat Herc after words. this is off topic but i wounder how Rin or her father would to Irregular school of magic type of magic.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by mirakura

@cyberdemon

Wow, you're defend your fav heroine about sex? Really? That's not the point of this, you know that, right?

But this discussion was about "are sex scenes necessary for the characterisation?" And we came to the conclusion that, yes, it is necessary for Shirou's and Sakura's relationship, but it can mostly be replaced in the other routes, while the very first one in Fate can be classified as "disputable".

That is the point.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Except that, in Sakura's case, it actually makes sense for her to have sex for that purpose. Due to what Zouken does to her, she's easily-aroused, and her feelings for Shirou are such that she would want to have sex with him.

Which was again due to the unneeded sex sub plot. If you turned that into say a an insatiable thirst for blood, sex would be equally unneeded and awkward between Shirou and Sakura, hell it probably wouldn't even happen (actually almost certainly). Shirou only ever has sex in the VN due to plot, he's not naturally that forward hence why sex is always a plot device rather than a natural progression.

You can't honestly say Shirou would be having sex with Sakura if Sakura didn't have such a libido since she needed prana, if all Sakura needed was blood she would just be sucking his blood you know like in the Realta Nua version.

Sex is not the natural progression for any of these relationships during the VN that's why there is always, always something else that forces the characters to act.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Which was again due to the unneeded sex sub plot. If you turned that into say a an insatiable thirst for blood, sex would be equally unneeded and awkward between Shirou and Sakura, hell it probably wouldn't even happen (actually almost certainly). Shirou only ever has sex in the VN due to plot, he's not naturally that forward hence why sex is always a plot device rather than a natural progression.

You can't honestly say Shirou would be having sex with Sakura if Sakura didn't have such a libido since she needed prana, if all Sakura needed was blood she would just be sucking his you know like in the Realta Nua version.

You are missing the point. You take it too much from the "story" PoV. But we are talking about character interactions here. Bloodsucking is a pure anti-worm-measure, while the sex also defines the characters.

Replacing the sex scenes by bloodsucking basically equates to completely changing the relationship of Shirou and Sakura, which then again affects the story, because the whole "Sakura can only snap through her relationship with Shirou" suddenly seems like pure BS with bloodsucking.

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

But this discussion was about "are sex scenes necessary for the characterisation?" And we came to the conclusion that, yes, it is necessary for Shirou's and Sakura's relationship, but it can mostly be replaced in the other routes, while the very first one in Fate can be classified as "disputable".

That is the point.

EH. I know I not one to talk but, thats



What does it have to do with the airing? There's an obvious answer but if that is stated, then expect me to bring up excuses as to why to start spewing Saber nonsense.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

You are missing the point. You take it too much from the "story" PoV. But we are talking about character interactions here. Bloodsucking is a pure anti-worm-measure, while the sex also defines the characters.

Replacing the sex scenes by bloodsucking basically equates to completely changing the relationship of Shirou and Sakura. Which then again affects the story, because the whole "Sakura can only snap through her relationship with Shirou" suddenly seems like pure BS with bloodsucking.

Sex is not natural in this VN it is forced, that is the point. Any relationship wouldn't have travelled to that point in the VN if it wasn't for what is basically the plot. That is the point. That's why the eroge nature of the VN is all but completely ignored in most instances currently.

I'm not saying this VN shouldn't have sex, but it's simply used as plot device to speed these relationships along at an unnatural rate and can be easily replaced. With minimal difference in the overall story. The end result is that Sakura's character is less messed up, the relationship with Shirou doesn't massively change (unless your honestly implying their relationship was built on sex, which is kind of sad), it just alters slightly.

[GreyZone]

Completely intentionally I stole this quote from the TM community over at beast lair! I found this over at Beast's Lair

Originally Posted by hinode

Minor HF tidbits from http://bosel.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-2915.html

ちなみに桜好きで知られる須藤さんはやはりHFルートを主張したそうです。

＞奈須：自他ともに認める重度の「桜好き」である須藤さんにとって、「桜ルート」は聖域ですも んね（笑）。

その思い入れの強さは監督さんから見てもちょっと怖いくらいだそうなｗ
しかしいきなり桜ルートをアニメ化というのは敷居が高く、
またTVアニメ向けに改変するとどうしてもマイルドにならざるを得ない
だから桜ルートの魅力を余すことなく伝えられる劇場映画というメディアを選んだとのことでした 。
つまり劇場版はそうとうガチな内容になると思ってよろしいのかな？

Someone on /a/ gave a partial translation of this:

Laxer censorship standards for movies compared to TV series has been widely cited as a plus for Heaven's Feel both here and elsewhere, but getting it officially confirmed is still nice.

NOW I made it retroactively "on-topic". Problem?

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Sex is not natural in this VN it is forced, that is the point. Any relationship wouldn't have travelled to that point in the VN if it wasn't for what is basically the plot. That is the point. That's why the eroge nature of the VN is all but completely ignored in most instances currently.

I'm not saying this VN shouldn't have sex, but it's simply used as plot device to speed these relationships along at an unnatural rate and can be easily replaced. With minimal difference in the overall story. The end result is that Sakura's character is less messed up, the relationship with Shirou doesn't massively change (unless your honestly implying their relationship was built on sex), it just alters slightly.

But in HF the sex scenes were integrated into the story and affected the plot directly. You cannot just remove it, because then the characters are not just "less horny" (as it is in the other routes, which by itself is fine) but actually "completely different characters". It's almost the same as saying "Zouken can probably somehow make Sakura snap without Shirou". You COULD write that, but it would completely destroy the storyline and create plot-holes, or in the case of the sex scenes, "characterization-holes".


EDIT: damn, I should have waited for someone else to post, to get this to the top of the next page

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Completely intentionally I stole this quote from the TM community over at beast lair!



NOW I made it retroactively "on-topic". Problem?

Hehe, trap set...just waiting for the next stage -evil grin-.