One Piece - Chapter 540 [Manga]

[holypanl]

Originally Posted by james0246

I didn't interpret holypanl's post this way. Rather, I though holypanl was saying that Blackbeard as a character was "lacking", not the fruit that he possess.

---

Yeah: that was what I meant. Sorry if I stepped on your toes there unintentionally, Blackbeard D. Kuma.

Anyway: My real compaint with One Piece is that the seriousness that should go along with being a $B 300,000,000+ pirate crew isn't really portrayed. Yes. Much as I understand that the author prefers a happy go lucky style, there are some things that should add up.

I reinforce that The Strawhats are moving around TOO FREELY. This is almost insanity. A captain with a bounty on Shichibukai level, and invividual crew members pretty much totalling their captains, and the crew is only about 10 members strong.

Any idiot politician, seeing this RAW POTENTIAL should dispatch a personal Admiral and entourage to specifically see to this starkly dangerous development.'

But nope. I mean...isn't that how the real world would work? I'm not saying that I'm comparing OP universe to the real world. By no means! But honestly, there must be some foundation of logic somewhere, and in EVERY universe, there MUST be a set of things that you CAN do and that you CANNOT do.

There are things that MAKE SENSE, and things that DO NOT MAKE SENSE. There is LOGIC, and there is ILLOGIC. These are balancing powers that exist to create what is known as a "reality". The OP world must have a defining reality.

Or is it that the SH crew is just exceptionally lucky? Do they just always seem to be glossed over by the World Govt.? Like...Gorousei is reading the papers, and somehow, each and every single one of them manages to somehow thumb past the front page articles concerning the SH Crew, and the relevant three page spread on their latest Anti-Govt. exploit?

So by sheer force of luck alone, nobody has noticed them up till now?

Nah...Get some reality into it. That's all. I mean: seriously.

Anyway, I suppose that, having said my piece, I should quiet down, and just resume my fading optimism, hoping to see exactly what Oda does with this arc.

Sorry for blasting the mood to hell, everyone, but I really had to get that off my chest.

[james0246]

@Master Mold: So the entire basis for your argument is a hypothetical battle comparing what Ace would do against the various Supernova...you realize how silly that sounds, right? Your basing your entire argument on non-information, just conjecture and nothing else. How do you even know how easily or quickly Ace could have defeated those 4 Supernova, let alone have the ability to judge and compare the encounter versus what Kizaru did?

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by james0246

@Master Mold: So the entire basis for your argument is a hypothetical battle comparing what Ace would do against the various Supernova...you realize how silly that sounds, right? Your basing your entire argument on non-information, just conjecture and nothing else. How do you even know how easily or quickly Ace could have defeated those 4 Supernova, let alone have the ability to judge and compare the encounter versus what Kizaru did?

...........................

Originally Posted by Master Mold

I going off of what Ace and Admiral Yellow Monkey has shown. Actions speak louder then words. and Ace HAS shown powers on an Admirals level.

Ace would rape the super novas, that Yellow has raped, they could not even touch Yellow Monkey because he was a logia, guess what......

Spoiler:

Ace is a Logia also.

GOD D@ME! I HATE THE E NET!

[james0246]

Originally Posted by holypanl

I reinforce that The Strawhats are moving around TOO FREELY. This is almost insanity. A captain with a bounty on Shichibukai level, and invividual crew members pretty much totalling their captains, and the crew is only about 10 members strong...

I expect that it is Luck as well as the fact that the WG has had other things to do (like filling the position of Shichibukai), that has added Luffy and his crew so far (being able to disappear to Skypiea could also be a legitimate point, considering that Luffy and company were transported outside of the normal seaways, so anyone trying to track them would be unable to find them). Added to that, the Strawhats have only been on the Grand Line for a few months (presumably), so the fact that everything has occurred so quickly could also have aided the Strawhats.

Originally Posted by Master Mold

Ace would rape the super novas, that Yellow has raped, they could not even touch Yellow Monkey because he was a logia, guess what Ace is a Logia also.

That wasn't my point at all. Ace being able to defeat the same opponents is one thing, we can infer that based off of known abilities, etc. But, there is a huge difference from saying that he can defeat the same opponents to saying that he is equal to Kizaru. We have no idea how long the battle between Ace and the supernovas would take; we have no idea how much force Ace would need to use in order to battle the Supernova; we do not know if Ace would have to fight harder to defeat the supernovas than Kizaru did; etc. I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no data, not even possible inferences, so your point is completely invalid. Using the information on hand, we have no idea what Ace's relation (in terms of strength) is to Kizaru.

(I'm sorry if I sound forceful, but your line of reasoning is very absurd. If you would simply say that you "feel" Ace is equal to Kizaru or the other Admirals, then I could not really disagree with you (considering that you took the discussion away from the realms of logic to the realms of emotions and personal feelings), otherwise, trying to argue that there is actual evidence to support your claim, when there is none, is just silly.)

[SuperiorX]

GEEE WOW what an epic chapter totaly did not se this coming, now the 2 week w8 begins......

[syler321]

what did u guys think of the 540 manga?
i realy like this direction with the new team of luffy,crocodile,jinbei and the other 2 revolutioneries.

and the next arc is probably them leaving impledown and going to the marine headquerters where luffy wil ltry to save ace and the waqr between whitebeard and the goverment will begin,so that means luffy will take place in that war so he will probably fight 1 or 2 shibubukais or even an admiral there right?

thats probably where luffy bounty will go up to the next level and he will be the number 1 rookie,im pretty sure if he will beat another shibubukai or an admiral u cant realy consider him a rooky right?

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by james0246

That wasn't my point at all. Ace being able to defeat the same opponents is one thing, we can infer that based off of known abilities, etc. But, there is a huge difference from saying that he can defeat the same opponents to saying that he is equal to Kizaru.

I never said anything like that, Sorry you must have read wrong.

Or once again.

You pick and chose but never look at my whole argument, that the problem here.

So lets start over since you don't have a strength for multiple quote debates.

Originally Posted by Master Mold

I going off of what Ace and Admiral Yellow Monkey has shown. Actions speak louder then words. and Ace HAS shown powers on an Admirals level.

[andy]

Originally Posted by holypanl

Yeah: that was what I meant. Sorry if I stepped on your toes there unintentionally, Blackbeard D. Kuma.

Anyway: My real compaint with One Piece is that the seriousness that should go along with being a $B 300,000,000+ pirate crew isn't really portrayed. Yes. Much as I understand that the author prefers a happy go lucky style, there are some things that should add up.

I reinforce that The Strawhats are moving around TOO FREELY. This is almost insanity. A captain with a bounty on Shichibukai level, and invividual crew members pretty much totalling their captains, and the crew is only about 10 members strong.

Any idiot politician, seeing this RAW POTENTIAL should dispatch a personal Admiral and entourage to specifically see to this starkly dangerous development.'

But nope. I mean...isn't that how the real world would work? I'm not saying that I'm comparing OP universe to the real world. By no means! But honestly, there must be some foundation of logic somewhere, and in EVERY universe, there MUST be a set of things that you CAN do and that you CANNOT do.

There are things that MAKE SENSE, and things that DO NOT MAKE SENSE. There is LOGIC, and there is ILLOGIC. These are balancing powers that exist to create what is known as a "reality". The OP world must have a defining reality.

Or is it that the SH crew is just exceptionally lucky? Do they just always seem to be glossed over by the World Govt.? Like...Gorousei is reading the papers, and somehow, each and every single one of them manages to somehow thumb past the front page articles concerning the SH Crew, and the relevant three page spread on their latest Anti-Govt. exploit?

So by sheer force of luck alone, nobody has noticed them up till now?

Nah...Get some reality into it. That's all. I mean: seriously.

Anyway, I suppose that, having said my piece, I should quiet down, and just resume my fading optimism, hoping to see exactly what Oda does with this arc.

Sorry for blasting the mood to hell, everyone, but I really had to get that off my chest.

Lets not talk about real world or your so call logic cause there are tons of people out Here in real world where the interpoll,CIA, FBI, and other world ploice can not get them , and we have tech that way beyond OP world for certain things.

Also SH spend most of there time on the Open sea do think it really that easy just to yo Admiral go and find the SH and capture them . The Admiral have to be at MHQ in case one big boys do something , also as they enter the new world it seems the WG has even less control over there .

If want look at real world lets look how we have pirates in this day and age causing trouble in real world or have countries where certain parts of are getting take over .

I think you need should check reality and read some world news to see what going in this world and to think we don't have to bother about DF, crazy weather , and thousands of pirates.
It not so easy in real world i don't see how can be easy in OP world.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Master Mold

I never said anything like that. Sorry you must have read wrong.
......

Pardon me, then. Ace has not shown power equal to an Admiral because we have never seen an Admiral's full power. You can't argue that a charcter is equal to another character unless you have seen all of their abilities (and consequently can discuss their full abilities).

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by james0246

'Sigh'...Ace has not shown power equal to an Admiral because we have never seen an Admiral's full power.

for the love of..........

Originally Posted by Master Mold

I going off of what Ace and Admiral Yellow Monkey has shown. Actions speak louder then words. and Ace HAS shown powers on an Admirals level.

Most of the dame time, logias vs logias end in draws.

Fire can't top light.

Light can't top fire.

conclusion, draw.

[andy]

Originally Posted by james0246

Pardon me, then. Ace has not shown power equal to an Admiral because we have never seen an Admiral's full power. You can't argue that a charcter is equal to another character unless you have seen all of their abilities (and consequently can discuss their full abilities).

okay so your saying ACE did not show power of a Admiral but that makes not sense we have seen ACE full power in way , but that was VS Blackbeard i will call him the logia killer for now you think a Admiral would have done any better VS Blackbeard

Ace vs Blackbeard fight almost destroy a whole island but certain types of Logia DF i can see how it was be easy as hell to do .

That thing about logia DF when you have one you don't even get hit so it won't really be a fight Some thing like ACE vs the light Admiral he shoot beams at ace ace turn fire he does same to the Admiral he turn light and goes on and on .

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

@holypanl - You don't have to apologize, my friend. I was the one who misinterpreted what you were trying to convey, so it was my mistake.

Master Mold, I'm going to have to agree with James on this one, since he is fully correct with his reasoning. It's like in the Shichibukai thread. So far, we've only ranked two of the warlords (Crocodile and Moria) since they are the only two who we have seen fight to their fullest abilities. What James is telling you, is that if you don't know the full potential of a character, you can't accurately gauge how strong said character is in comparison to another.

[marvelB]

Technically, the Straw-Hats aren't the only ones who are pretty much sailing freely around the GL.... just about all of the Supernovas that we saw in Sabaody should count, as well. We're talking about a bunch of pirates who have bounties that are near and even over Luffy's price (well, only one pirate where the latter is concerned, but still). Hell, you can even say that the pirates of the New World are pretty much turning the place into their backyard, since it's implied that the government has little control over that half of the GL, thanks to the Yonkou.....




However, we also have to remember that pirates don't directly fight against the WG, either..... that's the revolutionaries' job. My guess is THAT'S the reason why the marines aren't coming down hard on pirates. They've got their hands tied with keeping the world's balance in check, so they don't have enough time or resources to bust down every pirate that crosses their path. Sure, they'll make exceptions depending on the situation (like with Enies Lobby and Sabaody), but otherwise they're much too busy with more important matters (so pretty much what james0246 said). However, I'd definitely say that the outcome of the upcoming war will determine the fate of all the world's pirates......

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Master Mold

Most of the dame time, logias vs logias end in draws.

Fire can't top light.

Light can't top fire.

conclusion, draw.

And, as I just said, we do not have adequate knowledge of the actions that Kizaru can perform to make any judgment call.

Added to that, you can't simply compare the fight Ace had with Blackbeard, and the fight that Kizaru had with the Supernovas. They are two completely different battles with no characters connecting the two. So, there is no basis for comparison (and no, their "actions" are not a basis for comparison considering, as I already pointed out, we do not know what Kizaru can actually do or not).

Unless, what you are really trying to say is that the full force that Ace showed in the Blackbeard fight is equal to the minimal force Kizaru showed in the Supernova, then I would agree with that .

That being said, as Keroko has already said, there is no way to claim that light and fire are equal to each other or even potentially equal to each other.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by syler321

and the next arc is probably them leaving impledown and going to the marine headquerters where luffy wil ltry to save ace and the waqr between whitebeard and the goverment will begin,so that means luffy will take place in that war so he will probably fight 1 or 2 shibubukais or even an admiral there right?

thats probably where luffy bounty will go up to the next level and he will be the number 1 rookie,im pretty sure if he will beat another shibubukai or an admiral u cant realy consider him a rooky right?

Oh God forbid that this ever happens.....And Oda is deemed a Luffy fanboy.

Lets all hope and pray Luffy and his rent a team get occupied with Impel Down gaurds, there are still many left...

[andy]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Oh God forbid that this ever happens.....And Oda is deemed a Luffy fanboy.

Lets all hope and pray Luffy and his rent a team get occupied with Impel Down gaurds, there are still many left...

WTF that makes no sense luffy is star of damn manga he might get stuck in ID or make to MHQ trying to save ace , as i said before even if he makes to MHQ , the only reason elder nyon call luffy a ant was because he was by him self the same way how almost all of the people in up coming war would have been if there were by there self. This war so big cause there are only 2 sides WB whole crew and WG (yes warlords are in that group). if some like moria, few VA or captain , were by them self they would call ant also.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by andy

WTF that makes no sense luffy is star of damn manga he might get stuck in ID or make to MHQ trying to save ace , as i said before even if he makes to MHQ , the only reason elder nyon call luffy a ant was because he was by him self the same way how almost all of the people in up coming war would have been if there were by there self.

The star of the manga...Luffy is the star but a WEAK star, compared to the other stars.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Oh God forbid that this ever happens.....And Oda is deemed a Luffy fanboy.

Lets all hope and pray Luffy and his rent a team get occupied with Impel Down gaurds, there are still many left...

Completely agree. I seriously doubt that Luffy will fight many people in the upcoming war (I do think that Luffy will go to the war site); besides Magellan (which is almost a guaranteed fight), there is very little set-up for Luffy to fight any specific big-name characters (I wouldn't be suprised if he did fight and defeat one possibly two Vice-Admirals, but not a Shichibukai), let alone an Admiral (which is just ridiculous).

[andy]

O as i said before i don't see him fighting any body big just maybe a VA or two, some ground troops or but up on smoker . Unless we have team battle then it could go any way .

[Phenomenal]

I think not.