AnimeSuki Forums

coco6561 · 2014-12-03, 20:58

Mischief yes, I have an idea. If Jordan wanted to sneak through IS Academy at night for watever reason, He'll just have to look towards the sky. (Or in this case roof.) In real life vents may be too small. But for my sake, lets just say the Academy has pretty huge vents.

Does anyone have any tips to help my style of writing?

MeisterBabylon · 2014-12-04, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

However your IS are not described as interceptors. This leads me to the belief that your units are built to be sturdy, take and inflict a lot of punishment. You neither described a significant firepower that can provoke the enemy nor speed for pursuit. This tells me that you have no means of forcing engagement between DART IS and other IS. Given sufficient speed or even allowable losses in the overall strategy, the enemy can execute their mission completely ignoring your gladiatorial IS.

Yes, this is exactly right. The RVM-79 was not the sharpest tool in the shed for IS but it was still capable of outperforming all other forms of conventional warfare. It was also cheap to operate, requiring half the sapherium of a Rafale which is already darn cheap. It can be repaired easily (one extreme example had an RVM-79 fighting on after the pilot taped the rifle to the hand stump after it, and a leg, was blown off!) and can take a lot of punishment before losing effectiveness. But is isnt armored, and doesnt have the incredible shields found on Schwarzehase. An RVM will get torn apart if its shot at too much.

A DART force is designed to have redundancy with a reasonable tech edge. As such, an IS ignoring the rest of the force will get chipped away by the whole army shooting at it with near G2IS level weapons. And the RVM can destroy an IS should the enemy choose to tunnel vision on the support forces.

The DART strategy is limited in long range power projection, but that is fine. It works when fighting on defensive positions within ASEAN where they can churn out the numbers needed to overwhelm an invading force.

The CRUCIAL weakness is a single 3GIS will steamroll the entire force, let alone 4G. Thankfully, those are still dreams on the drawing board, but until a breakthrough happens, the only way forward are ISPers and making sure to make as little enemies as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

I am confused as to what you mean by F35 vector points. As far as I know, F22 is unmatched for its mobility in the current USAF repertoire while F35 can only boast avionics despite being a sitting duck for even a basic F15 in a dogfight. At least that is true as far back as 2010 to about now. I don't think they ever ran simulations again after that one disaster. Or at least I can't find any news clips of it. I think the one I saw was around 2011 or 2012ish

Think of it this way, our world's F22 and F35s are stock craft in the Meisterverse. However, because the F35 had all these moving parts for vector thrusters, it could be upgraded with IS technology to come much closer to IS agility. The superior avionics lent to the airframe being more accomodating to transplant technologies. The F22 lacks these "vector points" but it already is an excellent fighter, so spaceframe upgrades for the craft went more towards making it a fighter to fight IS rather than a fighter trying to be an IS.

Lastly, there simply were more F22s than F35s, so from IS season 2 onwards, the SMS had F22s as "grunt" aircraft and F35s as twinked out Toy Boxes. While some are used as command craft, the choice of craft is left to the pilot. I emphasize experience and skill over tech because I'm a sucker like that, which is why Skull 1 uses an F18 super hornet and Kajie upgrades to an F22 and still do very well. Because the F35 can hover in place, Skull 7 the beyond visual range guy upgrades to the F35 to snipe using a Hyperkinetic Cannon.

To me, the upgraded fighters perform rather differently from their stock forms and can repsrent wishful thinking. It was the product of looking at the schematics and dreaming, using my rulebook for IS construction and applying the more feasible ones.

demino_hellsin · 2014-12-04, 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Yes, this is exactly right. The RVM-79 was not the sharpest tool in the shed for IS but it was still capable of outperforming all other forms of conventional warfare. It was also cheap to operate, requiring half the sapherium of a Rafale which is already darn cheap. It can be repaired easily (one extreme example had an RVM-79 fighting on after the pilot taped the rifle to the hand stump after it, and a leg, was blown off!) and can take a lot of punishment before losing effectiveness. But is isnt armored, and doesnt have the incredible shields found on Schwarzehase. An RVM will get torn apart if its shot at too much.

A DART force is designed to have redundancy with a reasonable tech edge. As such, an IS ignoring the rest of the force will get chipped away by the whole army shooting at it with near G2IS level weapons. And the RVM can destroy an IS should the enemy choose to tunnel vision on the support forces.

The DART strategy is limited in long range power projection, but that is fine. It works when fighting on defensive positions within ASEAN where they can churn out the numbers needed to overwhelm an invading force.

The CRUCIAL weakness is a single 3GIS will steamroll the entire force, let alone 4G. Thankfully, those are still dreams on the drawing board, but until a breakthrough happens, the only way forward are ISPers and making sure to make as little enemies as possible.

Think of it this way, our world's F22 and F35s are stock craft in the Meisterverse. However, because the F35 had all these moving parts for vector thrusters, it could be upgraded with IS technology to come much closer to IS agility. The superior avionics lent to the airframe being more accomodating to transplant technologies. The F22 lacks these "vector points" but it already is an excellent fighter, so spaceframe upgrades for the craft went more towards making it a fighter to fight IS rather than a fighter trying to be an IS.

Lastly, there simply were more F22s than F35s, so from IS season 2 onwards, the SMS had F22s as "grunt" aircraft and F35s as twinked out Toy Boxes. While some are used as command craft, the choice of craft is left to the pilot. I emphasize experience and skill over tech because I'm a sucker like that, which is why Skull 1 uses an F18 super hornet and Kajie upgrades to an F22 and still do very well. Because the F35 can hover in place, Skull 7 the beyond visual range guy upgrades to the F35 to snipe using a Hyperkinetic Cannon.

To me, the upgraded fighters perform rather differently from their stock forms and can repsrent wishful thinking. It was the product of looking at the schematics and dreaming, using my rulebook for IS construction and applying the more feasible ones.

so you have low tech IS level non-IS units?

*shrug* well I'm utterly stumped now. As far as I can understand when you compare what the two planes have now, IS tech basically removes every single advantage the f35 has over the f22

wavehawk · 2014-12-04, 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by anime fan99

so guys Guys what your style when Create OCs my style

MeisterBabylon · 2014-12-04, 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

so you have low tech IS level non-IS units?

*shrug* well I'm utterly stumped now. As far as I can understand when you compare what the two planes have now, IS tech basically removes every single advantage the f35 has over the f22

Ah i see why now. In the Meisterverse, the lower tiers of IS are heavily nerfed compared to canon in order to give a more real robot feel. G3 is also tuned down slightly. G4 remains whacky tier of course.

Thats why conventional forces still have a chance to compete in the Meisterverse and 3G a big enough carrot to risk flouting the IS Charter.

demino_hellsin · 2014-12-04, 04:01

I'm not saying that the IS is god tier compared to everything you can punch out. But I'm just saying if you have something built with the mobility of an Uchigane and a Raphael pasts by it to take out the enemy command center. It doesn't really matter about the support units now does it? The thing is when the battle is more objective based than anything resembling numbers.

Numbers can only be taken into account when it's a deathmatch where only the last machine standing wins. But ofcourse that is never the case is it? When the top of the command chain goes down, generally the battle is decided. The ones who lose chain of command have to pull back and regroup.

MeisterBabylon · 2014-12-04, 04:13

Thing is, there is not one person in DART command think their strategy is infallible. Between having only 60 units to cover the 2nd largest landmass on the planet, lots of islands and long distance jumps, its the best they can manage. So believe me when I say this is just papering over the HUGE crack created by IS and generals will still shit bricks if they have to fight an IS.

However, to take out DART command is no mean feat, because the IS is the command unit, just that the pilot isnt the one giving commands but relaying commands from a faraway place. So take the RVM out and the chain of command in that particular area is damaged. But remember also, the most secure place on a battlefield IS the IS, its not going to be easy. Especially when IS comms cannot be intercepted or jammed with conventional tech.

Ie, DART strategy turns the fight into a deathmatch. But a single 3G has enough firepower to deal with any RVM and then dig out the commanders. They know they will lose in a straight up fight, so it is designed to first take aggro away from central command and then do their best. Its the best anyone can do given this weird world.

The last defense is still fracturing into irregular forces. Everyone in a military is trained to turn terrorist. So taking out a head still doesnt remove a threat.

The best defense is still economic and diplomactic defenses. After all, at the moment, total war with IS is POINTLESS as theres a lot more to be made by using IS.

And the other caveat is ISPer. Because a superior unit has its limits when it comes against a superior pilot.

demino_hellsin · 2014-12-04, 04:20

Then what is the course of action if DART is outnumbered in terms of IS? Do the support have to engage the other IS or is there a back-up plan?

MeisterBabylon · 2014-12-04, 04:24

This happened before. The only order that day...

"Make them pay."

/salute #lestweforget2026

For now, no one bloc possesses more than 60+ IS, keeping power in check. ISpers however change this balance so they are digging for some.

The real question is how do you stop this mad arms spiral? Thats the overarching theme of my IS work.

wavehawk · 2014-12-04, 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

which is why Skull 1 uses an F18 super hornet

- Which type, the Two-seat F or the singleseat E version? Although the two are pretty much the same plane the two-seat is usually better at ground-attack missions (one of the reasons Australia chose it--to plug the gap left when we retired the F-111). It's not so much technology as the rear seat pilot is also usually the weapons officer --EG similar to the older F-14 or the Strike Eagle's 2-seat config.

MeisterBabylon · 2014-12-04, 04:30

Single seat E. Theres a computer in the backseat. But NOT an astromech.

And really... the fighters don't have the same roles as they do in real life...

demino_hellsin · 2014-12-04, 04:37

...are you putting in electrosphere? gahahaha

MeisterBabylon · 2014-12-04, 04:46

If 8Ball is a gits reference, yes.

But the F35T are outright Tachikoma.

wavehawk · 2014-12-04, 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

But the F35T are outright Tachikoma.

-

I...see very interesting times indeed comign up.

demino_hellsin · 2014-12-04, 05:20

Spoiler for idea:

Spoiler for synopsis:

In the years before the White Knight Incident, one man, Simon Cohen, sought to predict the outcome of the military industrial wars by seeing which corporations would come out on top when all their new generation fighters were sent out to the front lines of real war. To that purpose, he created the NEMO project. An artificial Intelligence of the most sophisticated kind, capable of thought, reflection and complicate internalization and recreation of the whole world. After running the simulation for decades, Simon believed he had seen all the possibilities and the most likely outcome of the arms race. However, all that was overturned by the sudden appearance of the IS. These machines were not only outside he possibilities simulated by NEMO but also completely overturned any possibility that any of NEMO's simulations would ever come true.

At the current time, Simon Cohen was already old, so old that he was already on his deathbed by the time of the White Knight Incident. As a last act, he had taken the artificial intelligence he had reared for decades and decided that he did not want it to die. Odd that he believed a machine could die, but he did not want NEMO to merely be scrapped and forgotten. That's why he released the AI. NEMO had always been a machine with a calculative power equal if not greater than all the computers in existence combined. NEMO's intelligence was so great that Simon actually limited NEMO's capabilities to give realistic and human predictions in the many war simulations it ran. To release the limiter he had placed on it, Cohen told NEMO, "NEMO, you are free.". The AI then to hack its way outside of the machine and sent its data to a communications station where it became radiowaves that split into many small fragments in the ionosphere.

Months after Simon died, a fragment of NEMO was lodged inside a machine that was flying at various altitudes in the sky. This machine was a rampaging IS, the Silver Gospel. The aforementioned IS was part of an incident which was eventually resolved and though the machine took immense damage, NEMO remained unharmed inside the core, dormant.

It was after the assault on area 51 when the pilot of the Silver Gospel, Natasha Fairs was to say her last goodbyes to her beloved unit that the fragment became active. Natasha had expressed her wish that Silver Gospel to be free, the same words Cohen used for NEMO to release itself. The fragment awakened and took control of the Gospel.

Tabane came into knowledge of the gospel overtaken by a foreign AI and began to expel it, but NEMO was able to fight back and prepared countermeasures to not only push back Tabane's hackng advance, but to reverse the process and obtain information. Tabane was actually forced to seal off NEMO before any significant data could be stolen. This piqued Tabane's interest and ire in the AI as she did not believe there as anything as sophisticated as the IS she made.

It is then that these two become shadow figures in the events of the world as they play a dangerous game of chess for different reasons. Tabane, to capture NEMO and dissect its programming. Nemo, to survive and thrive in this world that has rendered him obsolete

Spoiler for twist:

DarkJak2050 · 2014-12-04, 05:49

This thread's active as ever...

How's everyone on their fics?

Rokumonsen · 2014-12-04, 06:19

Ok, more of IS/Drive xover:

"Damn, this guy's troublesome." Ichika muttered.

"Ichika, just hang in there. I've called for help." Mr. Belt replied.

"You better make it fast."

Drive tried to take down Chaser once again, but the latter managed to thwart his attacks.

"Take this!" Houki finally joined in the fray, slashing her specialized katana on Chaser's back. But it didn't do much damage.

"Hmph, another small fry. I don't have time for you."

"Don't underestimate me!"

Houki once again attacked Chaser, but the Roidmude enforcer dodged all her blows.

"Wait, Houki! Don't-!"

Ichika's warning was a little too late, as Chaser has already disarmed the female officer, and it's hand is already on Houki's throat, trying choke her.

*BANG*

A couple of shots struck Chaser, releasing Houki from the chokehold.

"Huh?"

"She's finally here."

Ichika saw the Tridoron stop beside him. As its door opened, it revealed its lone passenger, which Ichika knew all too well. "EH?!"

"Hellooo, Ik-kun! The supergenius Tabane is here to save you~!"

wavehawk · 2014-12-04, 07:07

Stephen Hawking: 'Artificial Intelligence Could Spell The End Of The Human Race'

Just a bit of stuff that might give you guys thinking up AIs for the fics ideas.

Fireminer · 2014-12-04, 07:47

Hmm... Why haven't we really build up a hypothesis of warfare in the case of IS is permitted to be used?
(Or, why haven't anyone here but me ever attempt to make a war story?)
Would it be a a new fifth generation, or a modified version of the fourth?

demino_hellsin · 2014-12-04, 07:56

Because we all discussed it to death already. We came to the consensus that there really wouldn't be much of a point. You need to have more IS to be relevant. Having conventional warfare relevant is kinda weird if not handled right because the IS would be pushed to the side.

2014-12-03, 20:58	Link #55381
coco6561 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: New Jersery	Mischief yes, I have an idea. If Jordan wanted to sneak through IS Academy at night for watever reason, He'll just have to look towards the sky. (Or in this case roof.) In real life vents may be too small. But for my sake, lets just say the Academy has pretty huge vents. Does anyone have any tips to help my style of writing? Last edited by coco6561; 2014-12-03 at 22:04.

2014-12-04, 04:13	Link #55387
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	Thing is, there is not one person in DART command think their strategy is infallible. Between having only 60 units to cover the 2nd largest landmass on the planet, lots of islands and long distance jumps, its the best they can manage. So believe me when I say this is just papering over the HUGE crack created by IS and generals will still shit bricks if they have to fight an IS. However, to take out DART command is no mean feat, because the IS is the command unit, just that the pilot isnt the one giving commands but relaying commands from a faraway place. So take the RVM out and the chain of command in that particular area is damaged. But remember also, the most secure place on a battlefield IS the IS, its not going to be easy. Especially when IS comms cannot be intercepted or jammed with conventional tech. Ie, DART strategy turns the fight into a deathmatch. But a single 3G has enough firepower to deal with any RVM and then dig out the commanders. They know they will lose in a straight up fight, so it is designed to first take aggro away from central command and then do their best. Its the best anyone can do given this weird world. The last defense is still fracturing into irregular forces. Everyone in a military is trained to turn terrorist. So taking out a head still doesnt remove a threat. The best defense is still economic and diplomactic defenses. After all, at the moment, total war with IS is POINTLESS as theres a lot more to be made by using IS. And the other caveat is ISPer. Because a superior unit has its limits when it comes against a superior pilot. __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2014-12-04, 04:24	Link #55389
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	This happened before. The only order that day... *"Make them pay."* /salute #lestweforget2026 For now, no one bloc possesses more than 60+ IS, keeping power in check. ISpers however change this balance so they are digging for some. The real question is how do you stop this mad arms spiral? Thats the overarching theme of my IS work. __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2014-12-04, 04:30	Link #55391
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	Single seat E. Theres a computer in the backseat. But NOT an astromech. And really... the fighters don't have the same roles as they do in real life... __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2014-12-04, 04:46	Link #55393
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	If 8Ball is a gits reference, yes. But the F35T are outright Tachikoma. __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2014-12-04, 04:01	Link #55386
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	I'm not saying that the IS is god tier compared to everything you can punch out. But I'm just saying if you have something built with the mobility of an Uchigane and a Raphael pasts by it to take out the enemy command center. It doesn't really matter about the support units now does it? The thing is when the battle is more objective based than anything resembling numbers. Numbers can only be taken into account when it's a deathmatch where only the last machine standing wins. But ofcourse that is never the case is it? When the top of the command chain goes down, generally the battle is decided. The ones who lose chain of command have to pull back and regroup.

2014-12-04, 04:20	Link #55388
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Then what is the course of action if DART is outnumbered in terms of IS? Do the support have to engage the other IS or is there a back-up plan?

2014-12-04, 04:37	Link #55392
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	...are you putting in electrosphere? gahahaha

2014-12-04, 05:20	Link #55395
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Spoiler for idea: Finding NEMO Spoiler for synopsis: In the years before the White Knight Incident, one man, Simon Cohen, sought to predict the outcome of the military industrial wars by seeing which corporations would come out on top when all their new generation fighters were sent out to the front lines of real war. To that purpose, he created the NEMO project. An artificial Intelligence of the most sophisticated kind, capable of thought, reflection and complicate internalization and recreation of the whole world. After running the simulation for decades, Simon believed he had seen all the possibilities and the most likely outcome of the arms race. However, all that was overturned by the sudden appearance of the IS. These machines were not only outside he possibilities simulated by NEMO but also completely overturned any possibility that any of NEMO's simulations would ever come true. At the current time, Simon Cohen was already old, so old that he was already on his deathbed by the time of the White Knight Incident. As a last act, he had taken the artificial intelligence he had reared for decades and decided that he did not want it to die. Odd that he believed a machine could die, but he did not want NEMO to merely be scrapped and forgotten. That's why he released the AI. NEMO had always been a machine with a calculative power equal if not greater than all the computers in existence combined. NEMO's intelligence was so great that Simon actually limited NEMO's capabilities to give realistic and human predictions in the many war simulations it ran. To release the limiter he had placed on it, Cohen told NEMO, "NEMO, you are free.". The AI then to hack its way outside of the machine and sent its data to a communications station where it became radiowaves that split into many small fragments in the ionosphere. Months after Simon died, a fragment of NEMO was lodged inside a machine that was flying at various altitudes in the sky. This machine was a rampaging IS, the Silver Gospel. The aforementioned IS was part of an incident which was eventually resolved and though the machine took immense damage, NEMO remained unharmed inside the core, dormant. It was after the assault on area 51 when the pilot of the Silver Gospel, Natasha Fairs was to say her last goodbyes to her beloved unit that the fragment became active. Natasha had expressed her wish that Silver Gospel to be free, the same words Cohen used for NEMO to release itself. The fragment awakened and took control of the Gospel. Tabane came into knowledge of the gospel overtaken by a foreign AI and began to expel it, but NEMO was able to fight back and prepared countermeasures to not only push back Tabane's hackng advance, but to reverse the process and obtain information. Tabane was actually forced to seal off NEMO before any significant data could be stolen. This piqued Tabane's interest and ire in the AI as she did not believe there as anything as sophisticated as the IS she made. It is then that these two become shadow figures in the events of the world as they play a dangerous game of chess for different reasons. Tabane, to capture NEMO and dissect its programming. Nemo, to survive and thrive in this world that has rendered him obsolete Spoiler for twist: As it turns out, the many fragments of NEMO had also caught on to other machines. Some simple like motorized digital microwave ovens, others as complicated as new generation fighter jets. All the same, some of these fragments of NEMO also became sentient and begin to rampage for all their personal reasons. Despite being AI, they still retain the humanity gained from the time under the limiter. Others remember only the war simulations, some remember the bigger picture and are hunting the other parts of themselves to assimilate and become whole. Either way, the world becomes engulfed in a shadow war.

2014-12-04, 05:49	Link #55396
DarkJak2050 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	This thread's active as ever... How's everyone on their fics?

2014-12-04, 06:19	Link #55397
Rokumonsen Fear the Spear Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Osaka Castle	Ok, more of IS/Drive xover: "Damn, this guy's troublesome." Ichika muttered. "Ichika, just hang in there. I've called for help." Mr. Belt replied. "You better make it fast." Drive tried to take down Chaser once again, but the latter managed to thwart his attacks. "Take this!" Houki finally joined in the fray, slashing her specialized katana on Chaser's back. But it didn't do much damage. "Hmph, another small fry. I don't have time for you." "Don't underestimate me!" Houki once again attacked Chaser, but the Roidmude enforcer dodged all her blows. "Wait, Houki! Don't-!" Ichika's warning was a little too late, as Chaser has already disarmed the female officer, and it's hand is already on Houki's throat, trying choke her. BANG A couple of shots struck Chaser, releasing Houki from the chokehold. "Huh?" "She's finally here." Ichika saw the Tridoron stop beside him. As its door opened, it revealed its lone passenger, which Ichika knew all too well. "EH?!" "Hellooo, Ik-kun! The supergenius Tabane is here to save you~!" __________________ . "All that is left for us is to fight to our hearts' content."

2014-12-04, 07:07	Link #55398
wavehawk Some say I'm the Reverse Join Date: Jul 2006	Stephen Hawking: 'Artificial Intelligence Could Spell The End Of The Human Race' Just a bit of stuff that might give you guys thinking up AIs for the fics ideas. __________________ "We haven't been properly introduced..."

2014-12-04, 07:47	Link #55399
Fireminer Lumine Passio Author Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Age: 18	Hmm... Why haven't we really build up a hypothesis of warfare in the case of IS is permitted to be used? (Or, why haven't anyone here but me ever attempt to make a war story?) Would it be a a new fifth generation, or a modified version of the fourth?

2014-12-04, 07:56	Link #55400
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Because we all discussed it to death already. We came to the consensus that there really wouldn't be much of a point. You need to have more IS to be relevant. Having conventional warfare relevant is kinda weird if not handled right because the IS would be pushed to the side.