Angel Beats! - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Dralha]

When they started into the train scene, I thought it might have been a dream or something, as I thought that Otonashi's demise was instantaneous in the crash. It wasn't until he found that they were trapped that I realized this was more detailed memories. That whole bit was well-done, with the helping of the passengers, the organ cards, and the rescue at the end.

Kanade was absolutely angelic...but is she really an 'angel?' Seems that in previous episodes it was hinted that she was just like the others: trapped in this limbo world. Not sure what to think now.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

They looked like they had enough air. There must have been some circulation.

What they were missing was water.

There was huge space so the air on 7 days was enough, but still it made it harder to breath later on.

Besides just look at number of corpses, all of them are destroying air too.

Of course water also was a factor.

[RedWing]

Thanks for the many reasonable replies (though someone seems to like giving me negative rep for everything I write but who cares)

Originally Posted by kitten320

Just because they act all happy doesn't mean that they really are. Yuri clearly has huge struggle with her past as well as regret but tries to cover it up. Everyone wants peace, to fulifil their dream and overcome their regrets despite acting natural. That's human nature, be you alive or dead like here. I myself act mostly happy but it doesn't mean that I'm not sad inside sometimes.

I think I must put some context into my reply for this part.

First, what do you think happens after the characters disappear? My understanding is that there is a high chance that they stop existing, hence my comparison to death. I accept that Yuri and the others are still dealing with the emotional impact of the unfairness of their lives, but I ask you this; would you trade immortality for peace of mind and death? The simple fact is that the characters have attained something unparalleled - certainty of their existence.

Every second we live now we have no idea whether our deaths could come suddenly. We live in constant fear of that, this episode showed that exactly - death is scary, it's the enemy of mankind. Everything we do is in fear (conscious or unconscious) of the uncertainty of the timing of our deaths. The SSS is removed from that. Completely and utterly in a heaven like state, where their every need is catered for (I think).

The fact is that Otanashi is lying. He is using deception in the hope that he will remove them from this place. My use of the word force in the original post was definitely premature, we don't know how Otanashi plans on getting his compatriots to die, but we know that he is deceiving them in order to do so. Otanashi should express his beliefs openly and give everyone the option of joining him to try and die, and everyone who enjoys their current existence vs the uncertainties of death can carry on having fun. I believe that doing anything else is akin to Naoi's hypnotism - presenting a false reality in order to get a desired result.

Originally Posted by kitten320

Alright, then let's ban doctors. Why do we need them? We still will die eventually so why bother? Day sooner day later, right? Or more likely die today or 10 years later, no difference at all... From now on don't you dare to go to doctors and receive medical help! Actually don't bother to do anything, studying, having fun... you still will die and that all will be pointless in the end.

I was very much aware during the writing of this part that I would get these sort of replies. I personally do not ascribe to this viewpoint on life, but a fact is a fact is it not?

The reason we have doctors and medicine is in order to stop death. This is done in the premise (true or untrue) that death is bad. If Otanashi is know ascribing to the viewpoint that death is not bad, then does that not destroy the impact of his "sacrifice"?

Originally Posted by kitten320

It was a lie. Lie can't make you happy.

Do you truly believe this?

[Mikoto Misaka]

In this episode, Otonashi seems to change his mind and decide to help "those guys" disappear. Won't his decision turn again?
I can't accept such "happy" ending because I want not to lose my favorite characters following Iwasawa
I believe I am not the only person that feels sad to watch their disappearance.

[Lukix]

Well, atleast hinata didn't have 'gone' in fourth episode, show without him woudn't be the same ;p

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by RedWing

Thanks for the many reasonable replies (though someone seems to like giving me negative rep for everything I write but who cares)


I think I must put some context into my reply for this part.

First, what do you think happens after the characters disappear? My understanding is that there is a high chance that they stop existing, hence my comparison to death.

It is exactly like death, in that we just don't know what happens afterward. More so, in fact, than IRL death. Since I don't believe in souls, I'm certain enough that there's nothing after death. Being in Angel Beat's world would prove me wrong, and then I'd be all uncertain.

I accept that Yuri and the others are still dealing with the emotional impact of the unfairness of their lives, but I ask you this; would you trade immortality for peace of mind and death?

Hard to say. More on that later.

The simple fact is that the characters have attained something unparalleled - certainty of their existence.

Every second we live now we have no idea whether our deaths could come suddenly. We live in constant fear of that, this episode showed that exactly - death is scary, it's the enemy of mankind. Everything we do is in fear (conscious or unconscious) of the uncertainty of the timing of our deaths. The SSS is removed from that. Completely and utterly in a heaven like state, where their every need is catered for (I think).

But that's not the case. They're not really immortal. It's just that death comes upon them more sneakily than for us. We have to be careful about diseases, accidents, and so on. They have to be careful about happiness and satisfaction. That's the pervert side of their situation. They can live forever... but they have to be careful about being too happy. They don't even really see it coming, so they have to play it safe. It's not hell, but it's not heaven either.

The fact is that Otanashi is lying. He is using deception in the hope that he will remove them from this place. My use of the word force in the original post was definitely premature, we don't know how Otanashi plans on getting his compatriots to die, but we know that he is deceiving them in order to do so. Otanashi should express his beliefs openly and give everyone the option of joining him to try and die, and everyone who enjoys their current existence vs the uncertainties of death can carry on having fun. I believe that doing anything else is akin to Naoi's hypnotism - presenting a false reality in order to get a desired result.

Agreed. It's all the more weird he accused Kaname of being "clumsy" because of her lack of communication. And yet, what's his plan? Go back to how it was before.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by RedWing

The fact is that Otanashi is lying. He is using deception in the hope that he will remove them from this place.

If Otonashi is lying, then he hasn't done anything worse than Yuri herself has. Yuri has put forth a deliberately negative view of "moving on" in order to bind the group to a uniform purpose, when there are clear signs of her knowing it's not as simple as she makes it out to be. There is absolutely no way Otonashi can force someone to move on if they're not ready, any more than Yuri can force them to stay if they're ready to go.

[maplehurry]

Taking Hinata for example, he clearly tried not to disappear, but he could be carelessly driven by emotions like in that baseball screen.

I wouldn't be so sure, otherwise Otonashi would've disappeared already.

I believe that doing anything else is akin to Naoi's hypnotism - presenting a false reality in order to get a desired result.

Both are clearly not good, but they are not necessarily the same. It's like an informat lying about his identity so that you can trust his info, but this info is true and real, as opposed to simply giving out false info. This, of course, is just an assumption, hence why I said, "not necessarily the same" rather than "not the same".

This is done in the premise (true or untrue) that death is bad. If Otanashi is know ascribing to the viewpoint that death is not bad, then does that not destroy the impact of his "sacrifice"?

Well, I think it is based on situations rather than a simple binary view of death being bad vs not bad all across.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by musouka

If Otonashi is lying, then he hasn't done anything worse than Yuri herself has. Yuri has put forth a deliberately negative view of "moving on" in order to bind the group to a uniform purpose, when there are clear signs of her knowing it's not as simple as she makes it out to be. There is absolutely no way Otonashi can force someone to move on if they're not ready, any more than Yuri can force them to stay if they're ready to go.

I disagree, assuming three possible outcomes from "moving on" either 1. "absolute" end to their existence nothing else after it bad, 2. go to heaven, or hell good/bad, or 3. reborn to reality bad/good. So we have 1/3 bad, and 2/3 depends.

This means at most Yuri's negative view is deceiving about two of the three at worst, and none at best, where as Otanashi's positive view is deceiving about all three at worst[if they would go to hell, or reborn as non-human, or into another twisted fate life], and minimally deceiving about "absolute" end to their existence being good.

So logically Otanashi's positive view does worse deceiving than Yuri's negative view on it simply because the unknown outcomes favoring a view againist "moving on".

[New/Old]

...Only here would I see moving on, finding peace, facing your regrets, and accepting what your life was being considered... negative. My, oh my.

[caesarsalad]

I enjoyed the episode; it was very touching, especially the last part of Otonashi's flashback. It was a bit long, but it was good. But, when it comes to Otonashi's plans...

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

I also do not approve Otonashi plans. Creating a chance for people to fulfill their dream without their careful consideration and awareness of the situation, will like handing a gun to one person, who is currently lacking the will to live (and then later say that they chose it themselves). Taking Hinata for example, he clearly tried not to disappear, but he could be carelessly driven by emotions like in that baseball screen.

... I pretty much have to agree with this. I dunno. Aren't the SSS members having fun existing in this strange world, and Otonashi also said he was having fun? I mean, it's great he's going to try to help people realize their dreams or accept their life, but... I personally feel that they should come to the realization naturally, like Iwasawa did, on her own. I don't think Hinata wanted to disappear there, either. Meh, that's just me...

I'm just worried that if they disappear they won't be reborn. T_T I'd love an ending where everyone could be reborn in a similar setting but that's just my idealistic idea

Well, I'll have to see the next few episodes to know what's going on...

[maplehurry]

I disagree, assuming three possible outcomes from "moving on" either 1. "absolute" end to their existence nothing else after it bad, 2. go to heaven, or hell good/bad, or 3. reborn to reality bad/good. So we have 1/3 bad, and 2/3 depends.

This means at most Yuri's negative view is deceiving about two of the three at worst, and none at best, where as Otanashi's positive view is deceiving about all three at worst[if they would go to hell, or reborn as non-human, or into another twisted fate life], and minimally deceiving about "absolute" end to their existence being good.

So logically Otanashi's positive view does worse deceiving than Yuri's negative view on it simply because the unknown outcomes favoring a view againist "moving on".

This reminds me of Pascal's wager lol. Just saying

[Knightrunner]

It would be cool if in the end they all get reborn but do not have a memory about eachother and then when they grow up they all happen to be in the same class in the same highschool and start becoming friends again.

[kache]

Originally Posted by Jarmel

Wow either Japan's emergency response teams move slow or this was the worst tunnel collapses in history.

Yeah, I agree that one week to save someone from a collapsed commercial line tunnel was too much.
Also, I don't know in Japan, but in Italy the tunnels should have an emergency telephone and an emergency exit every 50meters, if I'm not wrong. Isn't there a similar law in Japan?

[kk2extreme]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

lol I would eat dirt first before the dead guy. Maybe they should have eatten first the guy who stole the waters for his punishment.

Besides how are they going to start a fire and prepare some soup.

you don't need fire, just eat him raw, and human body is 70% water so if you could save the blood and brain juice for fluids, its cold enough so the body won't rot at a accelerated rate.

as in the emergency response team, i suspect that the rubbles are thick and there is a blinding snow storm that slows down the rescue efforts

[skyy54264]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

I hate to compare things but, why does it feel that this is going to end like Sola.

Spoiler for Sola:

Matsuri and Yorito disappear leaving Aono behind...

I have that feeling too... Sola left a weird taste. It's wasn't a bad ending. But it wasn't necessarily good either.

[kitten320]

Yes you might want to live forever but eventually you will get bored of it, because what do they have in this world? School and some fighting with Tenshi? Actually the whole fighting is the only real fun they are having here.

The moment Kanade will stop fighting them, their immortal life will become boring since they will be on normal daily bases and eventually it will get tiresome espacially when you are bound to one place aka school. So basicly they will pass on sooner or later.

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Yes you might want to live forever but eventually you will get bored of it, because what do they have in this world? School and some fighting with Tenshi? Actually the whole fighting is the only real fun they are having here.

The moment Kanade will stop fighting them, their immortal life will become boring since they will be on normal daily bases and eventually it will get tiresome espacially when you are bound to one place aka school. So basicly they will pass on sooner or later.

I guess but they can learn how to crack Kanade's code and create video games, skateboards, and stuff. It doesn't seem like anybody tried to go to far from school so maybe an explorer will appear to make new discoveries. They already have fishing and hanging around your friends can be a fun no matter what kinds of technology a person lacks. Camping and living in cabins are good examples. Plus there could be monsters outside the fishing area.

Plus who knows maybe overtime other people will develop hypnosis or some other weird power in this world which would make things more interesting.

[blewin]

I find this episode very sad but at least it explains Otonashi's action back when he saved the new student president. I'm glad that Tenshi's gained an ally. But Yuri would be one hard girl to crack. She probably already knows the disappearing/moving on deal, yet she can't accept her hatred for the past and her situation.

[Marcus H.]

Originally Posted by the one who gave me a smite earlier

way to focus on yuri when this wasn't about her

Who said this episode was about a single character? Yes, Otonashi is the main focus of this episode, but this episode also showed a different side of Yuri, who can also find her actions as "too much".