The Official Football Thread

[germanturkey]

^^ dunno, we crushed koln without him playing. Cazorla is immense.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

And van Persie can sign an extension with Arsenal.

Meh. If he stays, good. But I'm confident the squad won't be as reliant on him for goals this campaign, so if he leave before the closes, in January or next summer, it won't be a huge loss. Plus, I've really soured on him this off-season.

I'm positive he and his agent thought the offers would come rolling in once he posted that crap on his website. How'd that work out?

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

Meh. If he stays, good. But I'm confident the squad won't be as reliant on him for goals this campaign, so if he leave before the closes, in January or next summer, it won't be a huge loss. Plus, I've really soured on him this off-season.

I'm positive he and his agent thought the offers would come rolling in once he posted that crap on his website. How'd that work out?

Hard to say, transfer season is still open till end of August. Man United seems to want him most now.

Still, from January onwards Van Persie is free to negotiate himself. If Arsenal wants any control on where he ends up, they'll have to sell him this window.

[Azuma Denton]

I personally, despite all the drama van Persie has set up during transfer windows, really wants him to stay. He is the most senior player in Arsenal right now. So i really want him to taste a silverware during his time at Arsenal.


Well, look at the bright side, because of his statement, one France forward and one Spain playmaker has come... So??


And no news for Sahin or van der Wiel...
While on the other hand, Song has been targeted by Barcelona to replace Seydou Keita, who is currently on bench. Hope Wenger retains him...

[Shinndou]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tngQbkrMbx4

You know, initially I didn't care much about this trophy but given the way Napoli played against us I am pretty damn happy we won, serves them right for being so rough.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Bri

Preseason can sometimes lead to surprising results, but a ref that dives?

I couldn't watch the video, but the Ref didn't dive. I've seen the same scene from a different view where it becomes evident that a Lisbon player _runs_ towards the Ref and bodychecks him down. He briefly lost conscience and didn't restart the game later on. Day after, when noone apologized for it (and instead, several scenes of the Lisbon trainer and players were shown sniggering over the scene), he filed criminal charges to the offending player for assault.

Personally, I can't understand how in football, crowding and even pushing the Ref keeps being tolerated. Try to do the same to an NBA ref, and you're out in a heartbeat. In my opinion, the Ref needs to be sacrosanct and touching him should be an immediate red card.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Personally, I can't understand how in football, crowding and even pushing the Ref keeps being tolerated. Try to do the same to an NBA ref, and you're out in a heartbeat. In my opinion, the Ref needs to be sacrosanct and touching him should be an immediate red card.

Those tactics work as long as refs have a significant margin of error in their judgement. If the the ref is to be untouchable, better make sure he is incorruptible as well. Possibly by making use of video imaging so poor spot decisions can be overruled.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Personally, I can't understand how in football, crowding and even pushing the Ref keeps being tolerated. Try to do the same to an NBA ref, and you're out in a heartbeat. In my opinion, the Ref needs to be sacrosanct and touching him should be an immediate red card.

Well, i blame the stubborn European football associate for these. The game has been so outdated that (IMO) has it been the US who championed it, referee' role will simply revert to ground supervisor... while all decisions will be made by a panel through surveillance camera.


However arguably, as my friend suspected, the game was meant to be flaw, so it will create so much drama that these incidents alone will attract fans' devotion toward involved parties. For example if the game was won fair and square, the game will stop along the final whistle. But if player of Club A clearly dived and earned the crucial victory, then not only rival clubs will bring up the issues and talked on weeks after that to undermine the result, but Club A fans will find the need to protect their image by blaming Club B, C,D on doing the same before. Then the media will jump in, pundit comments, famous figures twit... the drama heat up again


It was long since the last time fans of lost team give applause to their rival for the good match. The game no longer exists due to its spirit and sportsmanship. It's all rivalry and hatred now

[solomon]

Buncha friendlies today. I probably tune into the US-Mexico match for little shits and giggles but don't expect much, Mexico is on a roll while we seem to be putting out some second stringers AND it's in Azteca......yea good luck with that.

Probably look at Deustchland-Argentina tho.

Incidentally, US fans always get into a forum tizzy about "why US cannot field a team against "so and so" and put all buncha reasons behind it". I think once we start evening the score with Mexico, we will have been doing something right. But I think it will be at least a generation before the country starts really getting into the game enough to even CARE when the National Team is playing outside of the Mundial.

That leads me to a question, I know there is love for soccer in Europe and Latin America, but isn't the focus on the game at least due in part to the fact that the economic benefits of the game (i.e. kids dream of getting in there playing, getting famous and making bank), as much as the built in cultural love for the sport? The two seem equally important. Because cultural interest in the sport can only grow in time with the US (look at Japan and South Korea for example) but until serious stateside money becomes an incentive, I doubt it will make GREAT leaps from where it is now.

[Shinndou]

Originally Posted by solomon

That leads me to a question, I know there is love for soccer in Europe and Latin America, but isn't the focus on the game at least due in part to the fact that the economic benefits of the game (i.e. kids dream of getting in there playing, getting famous and making bank), as much as the built in cultural love for the sport? The two seem equally important. Because cultural interest in the sport can only grow in time with the US (look at Japan and South Korea for example) but until serious stateside money becomes an incentive, I doubt it will make GREAT leaps from where it is now.

Well certainly money does help generating interest in attracting players and making a league more competitive but it won't necessarily make a country's football grow. First there needs to be a "footballing culture", get people interested for the love of the game, then from starting from that make investments in the youth academies and, something that gets often overlooked, good coaches. The footballing world is full of young talents but the ones that make it through the hard selection are those who are lucky to have good coaches who make them develop into pros.

[germanturkey]

well, break a leg at united RVP...

[solomon]

Originally Posted by Shinndou

Well certainly money does help generating interest in attracting players and making a league more competitive but it won't necessarily make a country's football grow. First there needs to be a "footballing culture", get people interested for the love of the game, then from starting from that make investments in the youth academies and, something that gets often overlooked, good coaches. The footballing world is full of young talents but the ones that make it through the hard selection are those who are lucky to have good coaches who make them develop into pros.

I guess this is true. There is a real pigskin culture in the South and Midwest here in the states, as well as basketball culture in the inner cities.

Soccer/Football just doesn't have that same innate passion yet.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by solomon

I guess this is true. There is a real pigskin culture in the South and Midwest here in the states, as well as basketball culture in the inner cities.

Soccer/Football just doesn't have that same innate passion yet.

A footballing culture can be created quite quickly. Just look at Japan, they've almost caught up in little over a decade. Around 2000 they changed their approach and made all the right decisions. Especially in the linking teams to their community and in youth development.

Soccer can't really flourish in the high school/college structure as the basic techniques need to be well established between ages 4 and 14. Top talents often have practiced about 10,000 hours during that time already, there is no easy way to catch up later.

The great distances in the country make national leagues a bit of a problem. Although it should be possible to build great regional leagues in the metropolitan areas.

[solomon]

Originally Posted by Bri

A footballing culture can be created quite quickly. Just look at Japan, they've almost caught up in little over a decade. Around 2000 they changed their approach and made all the right decisions. Especially in the linking teams to their community and in youth development.

Soccer can't really flourish in the high school/college structure as the basic techniques need to be well established between ages 4 and 14. Top talents often have practiced about 10,000 hours during that time already, there is no easy way to catch up later.

The great distances in the country make national leagues a bit of a problem. Although it should be possible to build great regional leagues in the metropolitan areas.

Hmm, where are you from Bri? What's it like in your country?

I'll have to read more about Japan.

It is true, kids really have to start young. As young as 4? I wonder if the same is true for our basketball?

Hmm league structures are something to look at, but what is important is the youth development. It's so high in basketball and football (AAU, Pop Warner, etc) but soccer seems to be emphasizing the wrong skills along with our gatekeeping pay to play structure. Also (more so with basketball now than football) there seems to be so much more "pick up" games of our sports than soccer.

Originally Posted by germanturkey

well, break a leg at united RVP...

I wonder if I picked a bad time to become a Gunner

[Elo the Blue]

Traitorous bum.

Whatever. I'm still excited for the season. Arsenal has never been a one-man team and it certainly wasn't last season.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by solomon

Hmm, where are you from Bri? What's it like in your country?

I'm from the Netherlands. Soccer is the dominant sport over here, so it's all around.

In the cities kids hone their skills on small courts much like basketball, in the rural areas a grass field is never a problem. Technical ability is the cornerstone of the style of football played here. It's honed playing on small fields. This is where you develop individual qualities. You really can't start early enough.

Lots of kids join clubs who exist separate of schools. They train two or three times a week in the evening and play a match on Saturday or Sunday. Age brackets are F (6-8) E (8-10) D (10 - 12) C (12-14) B (14-16) A (16-18). Clubs train individual ability by drills as well but also teach about the tactical side of the game. Winning isn't important, it's about improving the players. Professional teams scout the amateur clubs for talent and then invite them to join their youth ranks. Some of the best academies have their youth squads play two age brackets higher to constantly provide a challenge. Even the best academies rarely see more then 1 or 2 kids in any given year make it their first teams.

Experienced most it myself, I was an okay CB and went through the youth academy of my local professional team but had to chose between college or trying to go pro. Since I wasn't a natural talent and chances were slim at the highest level so I opted for education.

Originally Posted by solomon

It is true, kids really have to start young. As young as 4? I wonder if the same is true for our basketball?

Hmm league structures are something to look at, but what is important is the youth development. It's so high in basketball and football (AAU, Pop Warner, etc) but soccer seems to be emphasizing the wrong skills along with our gatekeeping pay to play structure. Also (more so with basketball now than football) there seems to be so much more "pick up" games of our sports than soccer.

It been a few years since I lived state side, so I can't judge the way things are now, but youth teams I saw back then they emphasized physical ability and winning too much. Most coaches I met seemed to train soccer on the side, in addition to other sports, rather than have a genuine interest themselves.

[Azuma Denton]

So they decided to sell van Persie...
As it hurts me, well 24 pounds is a good price to balance the books...


Now dont they dare to sell Song and Walcott too...

[risingstar3110]

It...kinda suck that Arsenal have been selling their captains 2 years in a row now. Benefit us, as Liverpool have better chance to push for top 4 now, but then we have that rivalry with United and wishing that it would not happen. Asernal is bloody rich and should have 50 mil to spend every transfer window, rather than sell to buy policy.

What's wrong Asernal, i thought you guys pushing for title push. Just sell him to Juventus for 5 mil cheaper or something T__T

Liverpool, City and Asernal gonna have real tough first 5 games, so won't be surprised if September-October will ruin their seasons (especially Asernal with lots of transfer movement and Liverpool with new boss)

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

So they decided to sell van Persie...
As it hurts me, well 24 pounds is a good price to balance the books...


Now dont they dare to sell Song and Walcott too...

You can't fault them for doing bad business. Van Persie's original transfer fee to Feyenoord (2.75m) +wages over the years (+/- 17m) < 24m. Basically Arsenal recouped all their expenses and turned a profit in the end.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Bri

You can't fault them for doing bad business. Van Persie's original transfer fee to Feyenoord (2.75m) +wages over the years (+/- 17m) < 24m. Basically Arsenal recouped all their expenses and turned a profit in the end.

RVP alone last season kept them in the CL, which means 30m + sponsorship deals + fans + etc. Honestly i don't think any player bar Messi and Ronaldo can produce such performance for Arsenal last season.

It's a good bit of business, but i understand Arsenal fans frustration. RVP has spent his 4 first season at Arsenal with injuries. Then after having 2 good seasons, suddenly now he's off to a major EPL rival (especially after Arsenal fans start to dream on tittle push), being a captain on top of it